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Tess Whitcroft · 11-25-2008, 03:03 AM

Return of the Neanderthals

No, not the return of the XFL...

If we can resurrect them through fossil DNA, should we?

Should we resurrect the Neanderthals? - By William Saletan - Slate Magazine

"The full genome of the Neanderthal, an ancient human species probably driven to extinction by the first modern humans that entered Europe some 45,000 years ago, is expected to be recovered shortly. If the mammoth can be resurrected, the same would be technically possible for Neanderthals."

Is this something "science" should be doing?

Tess

Redhead · 11-25-2008, 03:09 AM

Sure, why not?

Richie Waves · 11-25-2008, 03:17 AM

Of course! lets have it!

Ramonna Villota · 11-25-2008, 03:32 AM

Can we eat them?

Raindrop Drinkwater · 11-25-2008, 04:26 AM

As long as, once resurrected, they have the same rights as other human beings.

Beau Perkins · 11-25-2008, 09:54 AM

You want to resurrect Adam and Eve??

**Vertigo Paris** · 11-25-2008, 09:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Raindrop Drinkwater

As long as, once resurrected, they have the same rights as other human beings.

This pretty much sums it up for me.

Beau Perkins · 11-25-2008, 10:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Raindrop Drinkwater

As long as, once resurrected, they have the same rights as other human beings.

Wait is this a joke?

They wont be human beings, they will be a good scientific experiment really. If they have the mentality more along the lines of an ape you want to just let them roam around?

I say we give them the same rights we give every animal.

Briana Dawson · 11-25-2008, 10:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beau Perkins

Wait is this a joke?

They wont be human beings, they will be a good scientific experiment really. If they have the mentality more along the lines of an ape you want to just let them roam around?

I say we give them the same rights we give every animal.

Why won't they be human beings?

Merovigan · 11-25-2008, 10:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beau Perkins

Wait is this a joke?

They wont be human beings, they will be a good scientific experiment really. If they have the mentality more along the lines of an ape you want to just let them roam around?

I say we give them the same rights we give every animal.

If this "animal" is self-aware then he deserves the rights we enjoy as humans.

I think that, by definition, anything created by a human company is the property of that human company, up to and including life.

Eirik · 11-25-2008, 10:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Merovigan

I think that, by definition, anything created by a human company is the property of that human company, up to and including life.

So human clones should be private property?

Lum Lumley · 11-25-2008, 10:14 AM

You say this like it hasn't already happened or something.

Briana Dawson · 11-25-2008, 10:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Merovigan

I think that, by definition, anything created by a human company is the property of that human company, up to and including life.

Ok, does that mean i can sell my 7 & 8 year off into a sweat shop to earn me money for my SL expenditures?

Merovigan · 11-25-2008, 10:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daman

So human clones should be private property?

"Should"? No
"Will"? Yes

I think the "best" hope is to consider them "children" of the company, which would make human clones "dependents" of whatever company. This is in line with American law since companies are people too, under the law.

The company, like the parents, performed all the work to create the human so I'd say that, on some level, they are responsible for them and, barring ill treatment there's no reason the public should own or be responsible for them.

Oh goody...a debate about ethics! We never have those here...

FlipperPA Peregrine · 11-25-2008, 10:19 AM

The XFL was totally awesome.

Merovigan · 11-25-2008, 10:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Briana Dawson

Ok, does that mean i can sell my 7 & 8 year off into a sweat shop to earn me money for my SL expenditures?

No...I don't think that's what it means.

Chalice Yao · 11-25-2008, 10:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Briana Dawson

Ok, does that mean i can sell my 7 & 8 year off into a sweat shop to earn me money for my SL expenditures?

I think he was referring to the fact that the company, given that a Neanderthal pretty much would have to have the same rights as any other sentient being, would be responsible for the care and upbringing of the life they created.

It is, however, a guess.

Merovigan · 11-25-2008, 10:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chalice Yao

I think he was referring to the fact that the company, given that a Neanderthal pretty much would have to have the same rights as any other sentient being, would be responsible for the care and upbringing of the life they created

Ya, that's what I was going for. One day I'll be useful enough to communicate without interpreters.

The company created the life, they are now parents. It would be no different if the company adopted a child (something it can do, legally).

Beau tried to split the hair by saying that a Neanderthal is not a human, thus an animal, thus deserving of fewer rights. This may or may not be the case, regardless, the imperative is that the Neanderthal is treated in a manner respectful to its intelligence, and in its best interest, not the company's.

Briana Dawson · 11-25-2008, 10:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Merovigan

If this "animal" is self-aware then he deserves the rights we enjoy as humans.

I think that, by definition, anything created by a human company is the property of that human company, up to and including life.

Ahh you do not mean like physical property, like an object.

I think i can agree with that.

Chalice Yao · 11-25-2008, 10:32 AM

Indeed. Given that humans are animals, the animal argument doesn't really count. It's a matter of self awareness and sentience, and for a lack of a better comparison, the Neanderthal should be treated the same way as if we found any other kind of sentient species (they are our species, hence crappy comparison) on earth, or heck, such a species visited us. We'd not take those into the animal lab, now would we? Would we?
...*whimpers*

EDIT:

I just realized. I want to stress that again. Neanderthals = Our species. That along should show how they should be treated. No, I'm not talking about taxation

Merovigan · 11-25-2008, 10:35 AM

From the article...

Quote:

Whoa there, says Richard Doerflinger of the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops: "Catholic teaching opposes all human cloning, and all production of human beings in the laboratory, so I do not see how any of this could be ethically acceptable in humans."

?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?

So, it's perfectly fine and ethical to hide child molesters in the priesthood, and then secretively settle out of court when charges come. It's ethical to sell tickets to heaven, and have orgies in church, but growing new humans, as if science, not god, is our master?! Blasphemy! Heretics! To the gallows with you!!!!

We've been here before...the church loses this one, but a lot of innocent people are killed in the process. Can't we just skip to the end where the church is marginalized and humans proceed uninhibited by fears of what the Catholic Church will do?

Beau Perkins · 11-25-2008, 10:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Briana Dawson

Why won't they be human beings?

The same reason a monkey is not.

Beau Perkins · 11-25-2008, 10:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Merovigan

From the article...

?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?

So, it's perfectly fine and ethical to hide child molesters in the priesthood, and then secretively settle out of court when charges come. It's ethical to sell tickets to heaven, and have orgies in church, but growing new humans, as if science, not god, is our master?! Blasphemy! Heretics! To the gallows with you!!!!

We've been here before...the church loses this one, but a lot of innocent people are killed in the process. Can't we just skip to the end where the church is marginalized and humans proceed uninhibited by fears of what the Catholic Church will do?

Mero does everything you post have to be something anti-religion, anti-christian or anything along the lines.

GIVE IT A BREAK.

Beau Perkins · 11-25-2008, 10:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Merovigan

Ya, that's what I was going for. One day I'll be useful enough to communicate without interpreters.

The company created the life, they are now parents. It would be no different if the company adopted a child (something it can do, legally).

Beau tried to split the hair by saying that a Neanderthal is not a human, thus an animal, thus deserving of fewer rights. This may or may not be the case, regardless, the imperative is that the Neanderthal is treated in a manner respectful to its intelligence, and in its best interest, not the company's.

Ok, so abortion should be illegal then. They deserve the same right.

Merovigan · 11-25-2008, 10:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beau Perkins

The same reason a monkey is not.

And so the question that matters - what rights would you give them then? The same rights as a chimp? If this cloned being was capable of communicating through speech and said "I'd like to leave this lab now, get a hot dog, rent an apartment, maybe in Los Angles, I hear it's nice there" would approve of that?

11-25-2008, 03:03 AM	#1 (permalink)
Tess Whitcroft Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 3,328 Awards: 1	Return of the Neanderthals Return of the Neanderthals No, not the return of the XFL... If we can resurrect them through fossil DNA, should we? Should we resurrect the Neanderthals? - By William Saletan - Slate Magazine "The full genome of the Neanderthal, an ancient human species probably driven to extinction by the first modern humans that entered Europe some 45,000 years ago, is expected to be recovered shortly. If the mammoth can be resurrected, the same would be technically possible for Neanderthals." Is this something "science" should be doing? Tess __________________ Cum catapultae proscriptae erunt tum soli proscripti catapultas habebunt

11-25-2008, 03:09 AM	#2 (permalink)
Redhead La Vie Boheme It's all relative Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Salem Oregon Posts: 3,941 My Mood: SL Join Date: January 2005	Sure, why not? __________________ "Wit has truth in it; wisecracking is simply calisthenics with words" Dorothy Parker. Maddie Blaustein: the very definition of wit.

11-25-2008, 03:17 AM	#3 (permalink)
Richie Waves Joie de vivre! Is Three apples Tall Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Between Iraq and Israel Posts: 8,990 SL Join Date: 27/06/2005	Of course! lets have it! __________________ My lastfm Oooh, Betty! the cat did a shit in the hat

11-25-2008, 03:32 AM	#4 (permalink)
Ramonna Villota Senior Member Helvetti Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Iceland - Kansas Posts: 3,426 My Mood: SL Join Date: 3/6/06	Can we eat them? __________________ Ramonna Enginn er verri þótt hann sé perri. http://www.plurk.com/Ramonna http://thepeoplescube.com/

11-25-2008, 09:54 AM	#6 (permalink)
Beau Perkins Is a sickly peach color I love God and I love Guns. Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: CT Posts: 7,201 My Mood: SL Join Date: 12/24/2003	You want to resurrect Adam and Eve?? __________________ Living is easy with eyes closed Misunderstanding all you see It's getting hard to be someone, but it all works out It doesn't matter much to me -John Lennon.

11-25-2008, 10:14 AM	#12 (permalink)
Lum Lumley Should Be Working Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Austin Posts: 532 My Mood: SL Join Date: 9/2006 XBOX Leaderboard: 7^th	You say this like it hasn't already happened or something.

11-25-2008, 10:19 AM	#15 (permalink)
FlipperPA Peregrine Evil Incarnate! Recursion is beautiful! Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Philadelphia, PA Posts: 6,378 My Mood: SLShopper Ads: 1 SL Join Date: 2003-11-14 Business: Peregrine Salon	The XFL was totally awesome. __________________ Peregrine Salon: Flip & Jenn's thang.

11-25-2008, 10:32 AM	#20 (permalink)
Chalice Yao The Purple Kinda at work. Somewhat. Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Somewhere purple, Germany Posts: 3,096 My Mood:	Indeed. Given that humans are animals, the animal argument doesn't really count. It's a matter of self awareness and sentience, and for a lack of a better comparison, the Neanderthal should be treated the same way as if we found any other kind of sentient species (they are our species, hence crappy comparison) on earth, or heck, such a species visited us. We'd not take those into the animal lab, now would we? Would we? ...whimpers EDIT: I just realized. I want to stress that again. Neanderthals = Our species. That along should show how they should be treated. No, I'm not talking about taxation

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