RandoymRandt

The article itself on celesbians is located here:

Bogus lesbians 'causing emotional damage'

----------------
I have mixed feelings about off and on again "lesbianism", although either way, I always hated that Katy Perry song...

...there is something missing in this discussion, which is the idea of bisexuality in women...which is not lesbianism according to one study.

__________________
~I believe in love and being released from the tyranny of sim lines.~

Alfie Demonia

This link didn't work for me: http://www.news.com.au/dailytelegrap...014717,00.html

__________________
Last Fm
Flickr, innit
The world was a mess, but his hair was perfect.

RandoymRandt

edit: Wait a sec...lulz, that link you posted doesn't work for me, nor is it in my original post?

The links in my original post seem to be fine tho, from this end...

/cornfuzed.

Alfie Demonia

I clicked on the link in your orginal post and it took me to your blog, so I clicked on the link in your blog to read the article you were quoting but it came up as an error..

RandoymRandt

OHHH, Ok, no that link going back to the original source from my blog may be outdated, as it was from July. No point clicking on it, it would have said the same thing as you see on the blog itself.

So...

One link is to a study quoted on my blog that shows bisexuality and lesbianism are two different things.

The link to the article itself on celesbianism is (edit: now above) that.

Two different links around the same issue. Sorry for the confusion.

Edit: I think it must be my bed time! 8))

Surreal

The writer needs more fiber.

Lianne Marten

I dunno about this article, but SLesbians sure cause plenty of emotional damage. Maybe he made a typo?

__________________


I hope that whoever you are, you escape this place. I hope that the world turns and that things get better. But what I hope most of all is that you understand what I mean when I tell you that even though I do not know you, even though I may never meet you, laugh with you, cry with you, or kiss you... I love you. With all my heart, I love you.

-Valerie

Asher Bertrand

Actually, I don't like that, either.

__________________

Trout Recreant

lol - and women wonder why we can't ever figure out what the heck to do with them.

Wait a sec...you want me to get excited about you so you're going to pretend to be something that isn't interested in me so I get excited about something that there is no use getting excited about because it excites you to think I'm excited about what I would be wasting my time to be excited over...



head begins to ache...

Asher Bertrand

Sober up, Trout, it's Monday

Trout Recreant

Conflict. Quote #2 seems to advocate doing the opposite of Quote #1.

Jellin Pico

What a crock of shit!

God, where do I begin?

OK, first, the article seems to lay a lot of blame on celebrities who make a conscious choice to have sexual encounters with other women for the SOLE purpose of enhancing their own celebrity. That is, faking thier entire sexuality for fame. Sleeping with the enemy so to speak.

WHAT?? So the writer will have us think that these lesbian affairs are completely fake? Heterosexual women whoring themselves outt o lesbians solely for the sake of fame by paparazzi?

WHAT??

It also touches upon an issue that I've noticed a lot in my personal life .... That is, those who very emphatically voice the opinion that bisexuality itself is a lie. You are either straight or gay .. there is nothing inbetween.

This is voiced in the opinion of ... let's use Lindsey Lohan who is all up in the paparazzi fury right now .. it says that because she has had sex with guys, then she can't be gay. The article itself says she's fake because she has had sex with guys. It suggests she's faking it because she doesn't say in front of the world "I am a LESBIAN!"

Well jeebus jumped up christmas, who gives a shit? Why does all this matter? Why can't she JUST be having sex with someone she cares about and that's where it ends?

And why the FUCK can't anyone JUST HONESTLY and PLAINLY be attracted to both sexes? WHY the FUCK does it HAVE to be one or the other to get a little bit of validity?? In fact, why does gender have to even be a factor?

Going back to Lohan for an easy example .. why does gender have to be important .. why can't she just find Samantha whatever her last name is to be attractive regardless of what gender she is? Why can't Lohan JUST be having sex with Samantha and that as far as it goes?

God I fucking HATE this shit

__________________
Dolphins ... The Smug Bastards of the Sea

Serenity

Fixed it.



No seriously, though, the reason it's a bit of an issue is that sexuality is often seen as a collection of choices and not something naturally inclined. IE if you're gay now you can change back later or that you're simply CHOSING to be gay.

As I understand that's a bit problematic because people who are at the extremes of the Kinsey Scale are not able to just 'switch'. And seeing celebrities do just that, dance across the sexual spectrum, puts a lot of pressure on them to 'chose to go back' as it where.

I don't think this guy is totally off base, though his execution is very off. If I were a bona fide lesibian, and my family wasn't accepting of me, I can see how they might turn around and say "look at that girl Ellen dated; she got better. Why can't you?" And I see that as very emotionally distressing. Or as a teen trying to figure out who I am, the mixed messages from people that are supposed to be like me (and lets' face it, to most teens they ARE celebrities) can also create issues. After all, if Lohan is just turning on her 'gayness' for fun, why can't I turn mine off?

A big part of the problem is as you noted: few things in sexuality are clear cut black and white. Gay/ Straight is much more a continum than it is a pair of discrete settings.

Serenity

__________________
"I don't care, I'm still free; you can't take the sky from me."

Asher Bertrand

I agree with all you said, Jellin, and to clarify, my comment doesn't have to do with the honest and authentic attractions people may have for each other, no matter what the genders of the two.

But I've been at clubs where two women make a show of pretending to get it on apparently, as far as I can tell, to attract hoots and hollers from people around who shout at them to do more. Do I know these women aren't actually into each other? I suppose not. But it has the feel of doing it for a show, of a spectacle, of pretense. And that just strikes me as sad.

Serenity

But isn't the whole club scene one big show? We dress ways to attract attention or to signal some kind of interest. We approach each other in ways to make an excited spark if we can. In a sea of 100 bodies, if I want to go home with someone don't I need do something to get that first spot of interest to establish that *I* should be the one you talk up later?

It is a little sad, sure, but I also see it as a natural gambit in the larger game. Sacrifice a pawn to set up the queen....

Serenity

Persephone Milk

This is an interesting issue. In speaking with my friends, many of whom are GBLT (thank you for this Second Life!) there seems to be a common understanding that gender and sexuality are not black and white issues. Therefore, few of them would criticize anybody for experimenting and exploring themselves. That said it is rather obvious that some people are just putting on a public display for attention. And it's not just celebrities, or the club scene. I can tell you that in high school, there is enormous pressure on young girls to engage in bisexual flirtations, kissing and more - if you want to be popular with the boys. I am not sure this would be "emotionally damaging" to those who are truly GBLT, but I can imagine it might cheapen their very real feelings and tend to work against their desire to show that orientation is not merely a choice one makes for convenience or popularity.

__________________
.

Asher Bertrand

Can't go along with that.

Sexual identity is not the only part of who we are, but it is an important part. Selling that out so you can get laid later that night, no. That's sad.

Cincia Singh

The simple answer, Jellin, is that making the tedious seem important, i.e. who I'm attracted to and why, sells magazines and newspapers. Announcing that people have sex and are attracted to each other is boring lol. But I agree with you. Oddly enough it's my straight girlfriends who read and care more about these kinds of things than my bi and les girlfriends. Go figure.

__________________
"Let the sun shine where I lay, keep me young so I may play, and most of all, bless the people I adore, and guard me from the dog next-door." A kitten's prayer.

Midi Reifsnider

I agree wholeheartedly with Jellin. I don't understand why it matters? There are people all along the scale, for some it is a matter of definite preference for one sex or another, and for others it's less well defined. I wish we lived in a world where the person mattered, not the gender. People could fall in love and/or shag other people on the basis of attraction, pure and simple, without worrying about labels like gay or bi or whatever.

On the subject of Lindsay Lohan, I'm really pleased to see her so happy with someone, male or female - and I'm not a fan particularly.

__________________

Alfie Demonia

THANK YOU!

Jellin Pico

I understand what you're saying but I don't like it.

It says, "Hey Celebrity Person, you can't do what you want, you HAVE to publicly chose a sexuality because hey, you're putting a lot of pressure on one side or the other, you're confusing everyone with your personal freedom. Pick a side of the bed Celebrity Person so poor little whoever will stop getting picked on"

It has to do with two themes

1. Why do people care what celebrities do? My personal view on celebrity is very old fashioned and goes back to Shakespearean days "Actors, the scum of London" You may as well care as much about what the crack whore on the corner is doing, she gets less press, but the job is the same.

2. the very argument you propose empowers false ideas. Even putting the problem in, what I consider to be, old fashioned views of sexuality somehow gives those views a sort of validity.

Now I admit, when I bring this sort of view up, a LOT of people don't get what I'm talking about.

Ewan Took

The first sign of a fading celeb is when she goes through her lesbian phase. It's almost an unwritten rule. I don't think it's got anything to with the wide spectrum of human sexuality and diversity. It's to get headlines.

__________________
"The secret to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources."

Serenity

Oh I agree totally! It's not fair to lay on the shoulders of a "celebrity" the mantle of "Role Model". But, that's what happens. They are the public face of their 'causes' and until the idea that everyone has a sexuality that is natural, and exists on a scale from 0 to 10, then "gayness" will be a 'cause'.

Call me a cynic but I don't see it ending soon, as much as I may pray that it does.

I think I roughly follow the rest of what you're saying and I agree it shouldn't matter at all who someone finds comfort, pleasure, or peace with, boy or girl.

Perhaps part of the problem is that we've become so cynical about society that we don't believe anymore that someone is honestly gay because they are 'playing around' with other girls. We assume it's for the attention, and when a young lesbian is trying to find her identity, the idea that she is just saying she's gay for the attention makes it all the harder.

I don't fuly agree with the article myself but I do have some understanding of the frustration that could be felt as other people see and ascribe motives that may or may not be legitimate. If I'm gay, or conservative, or Catholic, or submissive, I say I am that way because I am, not because I want you think something particular about me.

To thine self be true....

Serenity

Persephone Milk

Well I kind of agree with you Jellin, but I don't think you are actually addressing the point being raised in the article.

This isn't about whether society at large should accept GBLT persons, whether real or pretend. Everybody here would agree that people should be free to explore and express their sexuality, gender and orientation in any way they like. The article is addressing how the GBTL community feels about "pretenders" that engage in behaviors just for attention.

If you don't feel that pretending is happening, then you aren't paying attention to popular culture, and you don't have a teen aged daughter in high-school.

Now, if the GBLT community is bothered by this type of behavior, I think maybe I can understand how they feel. I am certainly not going to tell them their feelings are invalid. The GBLT community has fought hard, and endured much, to get to where they are today - which is not yet a position of equal rights, respect or acceptance. So I think I can understand why they might be hurt by people pretending, as if sexual orientation is something that can be changed with the latest fashion craze.

Oh, it's tres chic to pretend you are gay today - now that it's in vogue for a season - and you haven't had to endure any of the pain and heartache of discrimination, rejection and outright ridicule.

Colette Meiji

So because Lindsey Lohan is one of the annoying, vacuous types of celebrity shes not supposed to have a sexual relationship with her female friend?

Are these anti-gay sex prejudicial rules written down somewhere for us to find? Or is it just like a minefield and you find out after?

I kind of like Jellin's attitude on this - Fuck people who try to tell others who they should not fuck.