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Serenity · 10-13-2008, 04:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jellin Pico

Because it IS

Now tell us why the sky isn't blue

Quote:

an expression of agreement that is not supported by real conviction
insincerity by virtue of pretending to have qualities or beliefs that you do not really have
wordnet.princeton.edu/perl/webwn

Hypocrisy (or being a hypocrite) is the act of pretending to oppose a belief or behaviour while holding the same beliefs or behaviours at the same time.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypocrisy

A deception as to the real character of someone
sitesALIVE! Glossary

I hope we can all agree that someone saying that is WRONG to do so, I'm not sure hypocrite is the right word. Someone may ardantly believe that their own experience is "the" experience and thus if someone differs in opinion that they are simply being argumentative and obtuse.

I tried it, I concluded this, thus you should conclude that too.

I'm so not saying that it's RIGHT to say that given the circumstances, I'm just saying Hypocrite is possibly not the right word. And if this were to come up, saying "you hypocrite" isn't going to get you anywhere as the person will say "I'm not being a hypocrite" because, well.. by the book they're not.

Presumptive? Egocentric? Those seem better fits.

Serenity

**Vivianne Draper** · 10-13-2008, 04:18 PM

There is no such thing as a faux lesbian. Either you are a woman and do not like sleeping with/dating/having sex with a male (in which case you are a homosexual (i.e. lesbian)); or you only sleep with men (in which case you are a heterosexual); or you are attracted to people instead of sexes and the gender honestly does not matter (that would be bisexual for those of you at home keeping track of terminology).

Riddle me this Batman: If a bisexual woman who previously dated a man breaks up with that man and then some time later goes out with a woman, is she now a lesbian? What if these two women get married and she never dates a man again? Is she a lesbian?

The answer would be NO. Because she is not only attracted to members of the same sex.

Honestly this is just yet another bunch of prejudicial nonsense. Its not confusing and it doesn't do damage and it isn't the concern of anyone except the people directly involved.

Jellin Pico · 10-13-2008, 04:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Serenity

define:hypocrisy - Google Search

I hope we can all agree that someone saying that is WRONG to do so, I'm not sure hypocrite is the right word. Someone may ardantly believe that their own experience is "the" experience and thus if someone differs in opinion that they are simply being argumentative and obtuse.

I tried it, I concluded this, thus you should conclude that too.

I'm so not saying that it's RIGHT to say that given the circumstances, I'm just saying Hypocrite is possibly not the right word. And if this were to come up, saying "you hypocrite" isn't going to get you anywhere as the person will say "I'm not being a hypocrite" because, well.. by the book they're not.

Presumptive? Egocentric? Those seem better fits.

Serenity

I suspect you might be hypocritical in your denial of being hypocritical

**Vivianne Draper** · 10-13-2008, 04:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jellin Pico

I suspect you might be hypocritical in your denial of being hypocritical

hahaha ya think?

**Vivianne Draper** · 10-13-2008, 04:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Serenity

define:hypocrisy - Google Search

I hope we can all agree that someone saying that is WRONG to do so, I'm not sure hypocrite is the right word. Someone may ardantly believe that their own experience is "the" experience and thus if someone differs in opinion that they are simply being argumentative and obtuse.

I tried it, I concluded this, thus you should conclude that too.

I'm so not saying that it's RIGHT to say that given the circumstances, I'm just saying Hypocrite is possibly not the right word. And if this were to come up, saying "you hypocrite" isn't going to get you anywhere as the person will say "I'm not being a hypocrite" because, well.. by the book they're not.

Presumptive? Egocentric? Those seem better fits.

Serenity

denial! Not just a river in Egypt!

Asher Bertrand · 10-13-2008, 04:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vivianne Draper

There is no such thing as a faux lesbian. Either you are a woman and do not like sleeping with/dating/having sex with a male (in which case you are a homosexual (i.e. lesbian)); or you only sleep with men (in which case you are a heterosexual); or you are attracted to people instead of sexes and the gender honestly does not matter (that would be bisexual for those of you at home keeping track of terminology).

Well, for purposes of the discussion, I guess a fauxmosexual (heh, it does make me laugh) is someone who is otherwise straight, but pretends to be gay or bisexual for social advantage, as in, a woman trying to attract attention from men. And if you don't think that happens, take a wander through your nearest adult video store.

Siyu Suen · 10-13-2008, 04:39 PM

Hehehehe... fauxmosexual

**Vivianne Draper** · 10-13-2008, 04:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Asher Bertrand

Well, for purposes of the discussion, I guess a fauxmosexual (heh, it does make me laugh) is someone who is otherwise straight, but pretends to be gay or bisexual for social advantage, as in, a woman trying to attract attention from men. And if you don't think that happens, take a wander through your nearest adult video store.

oh puhleeze...

women pretending to love women to turn men on????? NO TELL ME IT ISN'T SO

Maybe if it didn't work it wouldn't be so.

Asher Bertrand · 10-13-2008, 04:43 PM

I'm not sure I get what your point is? That some men go for it? Yeah. I'm not saying that's good either, I think encouraging someone to do that is potentially harmful and ethically wrong.

Colette Meiji · 10-13-2008, 04:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Asher Bertrand

Well, for purposes of the discussion, I guess a fauxmosexual (heh, it does make me laugh) is someone who is otherwise straight, but pretends to be gay or bisexual for social advantage, as in, a woman trying to attract attention from men. And if you don't think that happens, take a wander through your nearest adult video store.

For discussions sake ...

It is worth noting that Porn Stars having sex is in their job description ...

Rather than being a way to attract men.

Ewan Took · 10-13-2008, 04:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Asher Bertrand

Well, for purposes of the discussion, I guess a fauxmosexual (heh, it does make me laugh) is someone who is otherwise straight, but pretends to be gay or bisexual for social advantage, as in, a woman trying to attract attention from men. And if you don't think that happens, take a wander through your nearest adult video store.

'Gay for pay' is the term used I think.

Asher Bertrand · 10-13-2008, 04:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Colette Meiji

For discussions sake ...

It is worth noting that Porn Stars having sex is in their job description ...

Rather than being a way to attract men.

Money is a social advantage, too

Not all people in porn movies have to accept participation in gay or lesbian scenes. Those who do may receive a premium for it. Certainly, the men do, as men willing to appear in straight porn are a dime a dozen. And yeah, I know too much about this.

Trout Recreant · 10-13-2008, 04:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Colette Meiji

For discussions sake ...

It is worth noting that Porn Stars having sex is in their job description ...

Rather than being a way to attract men.

I thinkis point was that lesbianism is something that turns some men on - a good portion of them if you judge by the size of that section in adult stores. So, some women pretend to be lesbians to try to get men interested.

I haven't witnessed this myself, but I'm too old to be in the club scene. I've seen wierder things, so I believe Asher when he says he's witnessed it. I just think it's a stupid thing to do.

I guess my way of thinking is that people should be able to do whatever they want with their personal lives. Choose who their sex partners are, choose their mates, and marry whomever they please, regardless of gender. I don't know why we spend so much time obsessing over it.

Asher Bertrand · 10-13-2008, 04:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trout Recreant

I've seen wierder things, so I believe Asher when he says he's witnessed it.

We must hang out sometime.

Persephone Milk · 10-13-2008, 04:57 PM

Have you guys actually read the article? You seem to be railing against things it doesn't even suggest. I will grant that it is a poorly written piece drenched in sensational overtones, but I don't see it suggesting that the GLBT community, or anybody else, is trying to dictate who can sleep with who.

It's point, however poorly made, is that pop culture's current fascination with lipstick lesbian imagery does not represent a real acceptance of gay life, and does little to help troubled gay teens deal with the rejection and depression that is a part of their daily lives.

So while the world is titillated by a sexy kiss on the VMA awards show, and we pat ourselves on the back for being progressive enough to accept Lindsay Lohan's relationship, let's not forget that the realities of gay life aren't always wrapped up in pretty lace and ribbons and the world hasn't moved quite far enough toward accepting and loving all people, regardless of gender or orientation.

Quote:

"The current trend of gay acceptance is a Trojan horse: on the surface it's 'wow, isn’t it great, it's being talked about', but it's not real acceptance — it's a titillating, easy-on-the-eyes acceptance."

Online gay forums are abuzz with talk of the "bogus lesbian" craze, with some questioning whether the trend is putting real homosexuals at risk.

"Where do these fauxmosexual fads leave queer teens once they're packed away in the cupboard (with other fads)?," user timbo84 wrote.

"The statistic of 30 percent of teen suicides in the US being gay or lesbian teens is very distressing.

**Vivianne Draper** · 10-13-2008, 05:10 PM

I don't think its pop culture's job to help troubled gay teens deal with rejection. And I think that the whole gay marriage NOT and don't ask don't tell thing with the military make it pretty clear we are far from acceptance.

Asher Bertrand · 10-13-2008, 05:12 PM

Well, I could give a shit what celebrities do or don't do. I was never talking about them.

Colette Meiji · 10-13-2008, 05:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Persephone Milk

Have you guys actually read the article? You seem to be railing against things it doesn't even suggest. I will grant that it is a poorly written piece drenched in sensational overtones, but I don't see it suggesting that the GLBT community, or anybody else, is trying to dictate who can sleep with who.

It's point, however poorly made, is that pop culture's current fascination with lipstick lesbian imagery does not represent a real acceptance of gay life, and does little to help troubled gay teens deal with the rejection and depression that is a part of their daily lives.

So while the world is titillated by a sexy kiss on the VMA awards show, and we pat ourselves on the back for being progressive enough to accept Lindsay Lohan's relationship, let's not forget that the realities of gay life aren't always wrapped up in pretty lace and ribbons and the world hasn't moved quite far enough toward accepting and loving all people, regardless of gender or orientation.

I was mainly commenting on comments made here. The article itself is of lower quality than many Forum's posts made here at SLU.

For example the 30% Statistic you quoted is not given a source.

While other quotes evidently come of some message board.

The only sourced comments are by the co-founder of the website "samesame"

Jellin Pico · 10-13-2008, 05:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vivianne Draper

I don't think its pop culture's job to help troubled gay teens deal with rejection. And I think that the whole gay marriage NOT and don't ask don't tell thing with the military make it pretty clear we are far from acceptance.

Good point, right on the nail. It's asinine to take any meaning from pop culture and paparazzi shark frenzies and use that in day to day life. It's dangerous. Look!! See??

YouTube - Britney Fan Crying

**Carthalis** · 10-13-2008, 05:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Persephone Milk

Have you guys actually read the article? You seem to be railing against things it doesn't even suggest. I will grant that it is a poorly written piece drenched in sensational overtones, but I don't see it suggesting that the GLBT community, or anybody else, is trying to dictate who can sleep with who.

It's point, however poorly made, is that pop culture's current fascination with lipstick lesbian imagery does not represent a real acceptance of gay life, and does little to help troubled gay teens deal with the rejection and depression that is a part of their daily lives.

So while the world is titillated by a sexy kiss on the VMA awards show, and we pat ourselves on the back for being progressive enough to accept Lindsay Lohan's relationship, let's not forget that the realities of gay life aren't always wrapped up in pretty lace and ribbons and the world hasn't moved quite far enough toward accepting and loving all people, regardless of gender or orientation.

I think what you say Persephone is spot on, its interesting to note that the fascination is with lesbians and not gay men. How many men are running these press stories and fueling these articles and celebrity stories all for titilation. And I do think a lot of celebrities are hyprocites and some will stoop to any means to keep their names in the press/public eye. You only have to come over to the UK and see the tabloid trash that passes for news or the celebrity reality shows.

While I couldn't care what celebrities think or do, for a young gay man growing up in a household hiding his sexuality out of fear and confusion just seeing the news or today's pop culture is enough to keep him in even more hidden away.

I would say the 30% is a lot higher. I have an article at work and will have to check when I'm back in about male teenage suicide's being much higher than female and especially amongst young gay men.

Carth

Asher Bertrand · 10-13-2008, 05:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carthalis

I would say the 30% is a lot higher. I have an article at work and will have to check when I'm back in about male teenage suicide's being much higher than female and especially amongst young gay men.

This is normally the case. Women attempt more, but don't complete the suicide as often; men attempt less, but carry it through more often.

Not to beat you to it, Carthalis, but I was curious and went looking:

Quote:

Gay men are six times more likely to attempt suicide than their straight counterparts and the numbers increase exponentially during the holidays. This story appears in the Dec/Jan 99 issue of Genre and examines the issues behind why they are taking their own lives, and offers some solutions to the holiday blues. (Also see our own # 7 Happy Holidaze A report from P-FLAG (Parents and Friends of Lesbians and Gays) states that in a study of 5,000 gay men and women, 35 percent of gay men and 38 percent of lesbians have considered or attempted suicide. The statistics are even higher among gay teens: The Department of Health study indicates that gay youth are up to six times more likely to attempt suicide than straight teens, and gay teenagers account for up to 30 percent of all teenage suicides in the nation.

Colette Meiji · 10-13-2008, 05:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carthalis

I would say the 30% is a lot higher. I have an article at work and will have to check when I'm back in about male teenage suicide's being much higher than female and especially amongst young gay men.

A 30 percent suicide rate for gay teens? That seems almost impossible to beleive.

I would be interested in seeing the data on something like that.

On the surface it seems incredulous.

Using a 10% figure for gay vs Straight it would mean nearly 3% of all teens commits suicide. Even when you complete discount all other reasons for teen suicide!

But for example according to this article the suicide rate for ALL REASONS is about 8 per 100,000.

Teen Suicide Rate: Highest Increase In 15 Years

So .008% For all causes. Even the highest mentioned categories don't even get to a tenth of a percent.

So even with a 1% gay vs. Straight ratio it would be impossible statistically for both sets of data to be true.

Colette Meiji · 10-13-2008, 05:49 PM

It looks like young men are more likely than women to commit suicide in all cases not just based on them being gay.

Jellin Pico · 10-13-2008, 05:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carthalis

I think what you say Persephone is spot on, its interesting to note that the fascination is with lesbians and not gay men. How many men are running these press stories and fueling these articles and celebrity stories all for titilation.
Carth

The gay men thing .. that was SO last year

or to be serious, it's still not as acceptable to be a gay guy than a gay girl in the media.

Lesbians = sexy in movies, TV and magazines no matter HOW you slice it unless both partners look like some proverbial Uncle Morty

Gays = icky sweaty balls and post anal sex nastiness

Asher Bertrand · 10-13-2008, 05:53 PM

No, I think you misunderstood, Colette. Of the total number of teen suicides (say there were only 100), 30 percent of those were committed by gay youth. So, 30 people.

According to Family First Aid, there were 30,622 teen suicides in 2001. So, approximately 9,187 were committed by gay teens.

Adding: The statistics are for the U.S. Heh, bad ethnocentrist, I am.

10-13-2008, 04:18 PM	#52 (permalink)
Vivianne Draper witly verbiage hear SLU Supporter Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: DC Area Posts: 4,488 My Mood: SLShopper Ads: 2 SL Join Date: September 11, 2005 Blog Entries: 1	There is no such thing as a faux lesbian. Either you are a woman and do not like sleeping with/dating/having sex with a male (in which case you are a homosexual (i.e. lesbian)); or you only sleep with men (in which case you are a heterosexual); or you are attracted to people instead of sexes and the gender honestly does not matter (that would be bisexual for those of you at home keeping track of terminology). Riddle me this Batman: If a bisexual woman who previously dated a man breaks up with that man and then some time later goes out with a woman, is she now a lesbian? What if these two women get married and she never dates a man again? Is she a lesbian? The answer would be NO. Because she is not only attracted to members of the same sex. Honestly this is just yet another bunch of prejudicial nonsense. Its not confusing and it doesn't do damage and it isn't the concern of anyone except the people directly involved. __________________ ~~~~~

10-13-2008, 04:39 PM	#57 (permalink)
Siyu Suen The Mask Lady Loves to torture Miriel Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Carnivale Posts: 5,732 My Mood: SLShopper Ads: 14 SL Join Date: 10/14/06 Business: Illusions: Masks and Unique Accessories Awards: 1	Hehehehe... fauxmosexual __________________ "Your reality, sir, is lies and balderdash and I'm delighted to say that I have no grasp of it whatsoever" -Baron Munchausen I'm attempting to bring about the end of the world to usher in a new era of mask wielding overlords. This is how!

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10-13-2008, 04:43 PM	#59 (permalink)
Asher Bertrand Dead Guy Creaking watermelons Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 6,701 My Mood: Blog Entries: 2	I'm not sure I get what your point is? That some men go for it? Yeah. I'm not saying that's good either, I think encouraging someone to do that is potentially harmful and ethically wrong.

10-13-2008, 05:10 PM	#66 (permalink)
Vivianne Draper witly verbiage hear SLU Supporter Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: DC Area Posts: 4,488 My Mood: SLShopper Ads: 2 SL Join Date: September 11, 2005 Blog Entries: 1	I don't think its pop culture's job to help troubled gay teens deal with rejection. And I think that the whole gay marriage NOT and don't ask don't tell thing with the military make it pretty clear we are far from acceptance.

10-13-2008, 05:12 PM	#67 (permalink)
Asher Bertrand Dead Guy Creaking watermelons Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 6,701 My Mood: Blog Entries: 2	Well, I could give a shit what celebrities do or don't do. I was never talking about them.

10-13-2008, 05:49 PM	#73 (permalink)
Colette Meiji Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 7,590 My Mood:	It looks like young men are more likely than women to commit suicide in all cases not just based on them being gay.

10-13-2008, 05:53 PM	#75 (permalink)
Asher Bertrand Dead Guy Creaking watermelons Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 6,701 My Mood: Blog Entries: 2	No, I think you misunderstood, Colette. Of the total number of teen suicides (say there were only 100), 30 percent of those were committed by gay youth. So, 30 people. According to Family First Aid, there were 30,622 teen suicides in 2001. So, approximately 9,187 were committed by gay teens. Adding: The statistics are for the U.S. Heh, bad ethnocentrist, I am.

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