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**Cristiano** · 10-09-2008, 08:48 AM

It is bad enough that Cindy McCain is delusionally claiming that Obama is running the dirtiestl campaign in history (which is some bizarre form of projection), but she reached a new low by using her son's military service in a deceptive way.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cindy McCain

The day that Sen. Obama cast a vote to not to fund my son when he was serving sent a cold chill through my body let me tell you,

This is the lowest form of politcal pandering. She neglects to mention that her husband voted against a similar bill. Neither vote against the bill was about troop funding - it was about the fact that one version contained a time table to pull troops (including her son) out of Iraq (which McCain voted against), the other had no timetable (which Obama voted against). She also fails to note her husband voted to send their child to war.

Sadly, this opportunistic use of her son's military service will score some points with the base, It shows how desperate the McCain campaign has gotten.

Jonathan Martin's Blog: Invoking son's service, Cindy McCain levels tough shot at Obama on troops - Politico.com

Ramonna Villota · 10-09-2008, 08:54 AM

Military 68% distrusts dims and Obama that is shameful

detrius · 10-09-2008, 09:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ramonna Villota

Military 68% distrusts dims and Obama that is shameful

Your numbers might be a tad bit outdated.

Quote:

Troops Deployed Abroad Give 6:1 to Obama

During World War II, soldiers crouching in foxholes penned letters assuring their sweethearts that they'd be home soon. Now, between firefights in the Iraqi desert, some infantrymen have been sending a different kind of mail stateside: two or three hundred dollars -- or whatever they can spare -- towards a presidential election that could very well determine just how soon they come home.

...

...read on (OpenSecrets.org)

Kristian · 10-09-2008, 09:05 AM

WHY DONT OUR TROOPS SUPPORT OUR TROOPS. WHY AMERICA, WHY??!?!?! AFTER ALL OUR TROOPS HAVE DONE FOR OUR TROOPS IT'S UNAMERICAN THAT THEY DO NOT SUPPORT THEM.

Kristian · 10-09-2008, 09:06 AM

OH AND I WAS A POW WHEN THESE TROOPS DADDIES WERE A STAIN ON THEIR GRANDMOTHERS PANTIES PLZKTHNX VOTE FOR ME

**Vertigo Paris** · 10-09-2008, 09:07 AM

Kristian...maybe it's time to switch to decaf....

Ramonna Villota · 10-09-2008, 09:08 AM

Quote:

The U.S. military overwhelmingly supports John McCain over Barack Obama in the presidential election. The results are wider than one would have imagined.

The American military supports John McCain by a 3-1 margin over Obama, 68%-23%. The poll was conducted by the Military Times.

The results are interesting in that they represent no change from the past, according to Peter Feaver, a former member of the National Security Council:

“The military has been perceived as a conservative Republican institution. A lot of people thought that eight years of frustration with the Bush administration was going to undermine that. This evidence suggests that it hasn’t undermined it as much as they thought, at least not yet.”

The results are even more astounding when one considers that results are polarized along racial lines. Black military personnel support Obama by about 80%, much less than the black electorate as a whole but clearly enough to skew the statistics. Among white military personnel, John McCain is supported by over 90% of the poll. This data suggests that Barack Obama is seen as the “black candidate” among the men and women in uniform.

As Barack Obama rails against the Iraq mission on behalf of “the troops,” it turns out that the Iraq War is only the 3rd most important issue to our military. The second most important voting issue is the economy. So what do our men and women in uniform care about the most?

According to the poll, the most important consideration for election a presidential candidate is character. The American military believes that character matters in a commander in chief, and those brave voters support John McCain by a 3-1 margin.

Military Poll: McCain Over Obama Overwhelmingly » Blue Star Chronicles

Ramonna Villota · 10-09-2008, 09:11 AM

When I was over in Germany this last month the words of affection to Obama and the democrat clan made me even blush (visting some of the troops)

**Eboni Khan** · 10-09-2008, 09:11 AM

Obama is known to be against the war. He has no military background of history (some Great Uncle trotted out from Nebraska or Kansas or whatever doesn't cut it), he is an easy mark in this area. Although we all know that he has changed his anti-war stance once he exploited the hippies to get their votes in the Primaries, now he is pulling a Bill Clinton, moving towards the center and doing what he wants.

I am surprised the McCains are using their son because they have tried for years not to have him mentioned. I guess they are just that desperate. Also, I believe he is no longer in Iraq so they must not be as concerned that he or his unit will be harmed because of their using his military service.

Political donations do not account for realistic support from the troops, and is a biased.

This paragraph doesn't even make sense.

Quote:

Individuals in the Air Force, Army, Navy and Marine Corps have all leaned Republican this cycle, but the only branch in which that ideology has carried over to the presidential race is the Marine Corps, where McCain leads Obama by about $4,000. In each of the other branches -- including the Navy, in which McCain served when he was taken prisoner during the Vietnam War -- Obama leads by significant margins.

Then there is this paragraph...

Quote:

A former West Point professor, Jason Dempsey, noted that the small set of contributions from deployed troops at this point in 2008 -- just 323 donations -- should not be extrapolated to form conclusions about military personnel overall. "If, on a bad day, a guy gets that letter that says [his tour has been extended] from 12 to 15 months, that could spur a quick donation and expression of anger," he said. "Donating helps members of the military express their political views privately."

**Cristiano** · 10-09-2008, 09:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eboni Khan

I am surprised the McCains are using their son because they have tried for years not to have him mentioned. I guess they are just that desperate. Also, I believe he is no longer in Iraq so they must not be as concerned that he or his unit will be harmed because of their using his military service.

It surprised me too. Even as my respect for McCain has continued to erode, I still respected the fact that they had not used their sons' military service, only his own (which is perfectly reasonable, if not nauseatingly repetitive at this point). However, as with every other standard he seems to have thrown out the window as he has gotten more desperate, I'm sure "Barack Obama wants our kids to die in Iraq" will be next out of the McCain/Palin camp.

Colette Meiji · 10-09-2008, 09:18 AM

The moment who the military wants to be president matters, because they are the military .. is the day we lose our freedom.

Colette Meiji · 10-09-2008, 09:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cristiano

It surprised me too. Even as my respect for McCain has continued to erode, I still respected the fact that they had not used their sons' military service, only his own (which is perfectly reasonable, if not nauseatingly repetitive at this point). However, as with every other standard he seems to have thrown out the window as he has gotten more desperate, I'm sure "Barack Obama wants our kids to die in Iraq" will be next out of the McCain/Palin camp.

I don't see how someone who was opposed to the war can want kids to die in Iraq.

Quite the opposite. Those who advocated the war wanted people to die. That is what happens in wars.

**Cristiano** · 10-09-2008, 09:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Colette Meiji

I don't see how someone who was opposed to the war can want kids to die in Iraq.

Quite the opposite. Those who advocated the war wanted people to die. That is what happens in wars.

You know connection to reality, truth, and logic are set aside at this stage in the game when one is losing.

Kristian · 10-09-2008, 09:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vertigo Paris

Kristian...maybe it's time to switch to decaf....

I haven't gotten what you silly normal hoomans call 'sleep' in like, 3 weeks. I found out that it doesn't make you tired after a while. It makes you a GOLD FUCKING GOD. the caffeine just helps you keep channeling the GODHOOD.

detrius · 10-09-2008, 09:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ramonna Villota

Military Poll: McCain Over Obama Overwhelmingly » Blue Star Chronicles

WTF is "BlueStar Chronicles"?

That article is based on this article published in the Military Times:

Quote:

Military Times poll: Troops backing McCain

By Brendan McGarry - Staff writer
Posted : Thursday Oct 9, 2008 5:44:48 EDT

Sen. John McCain enjoys overwhelming support from the military’s professional core, a Military Times survey of nearly 4,300 readers, indicates, though career-oriented black service members strongly favored the Democratic Party candidate.

McCain, R-Ariz., handily defeated Sen. Barack Obama, D-Ill., 68 percent to 23 percent in a voluntary survey of 4,293 active-duty, National Guard and reserve subscribers and former subscribers to Army Times, Navy Times, Marine Corps Times and Air Force Times.

The results of the Military Times 2008 Election Poll are not representative of the opinions of the military as a whole. The group surveyed is older, more senior in rank and less ethnically diverse than the overall armed services.

But as a snapshot of careerists, the results suggest Democrats have gained little ground in their attempts to significantly chip away at a traditionally Republican voting bloc in campaign messages and legislative initiatives, such as the recent expansion of GI Bill benefits, experts said.

(emphasis mine)
Military Times poll: Troops backing McCain - Air Force News, news from Iraq - Air Force Times

Your source says that McCain is more popular amongst elderly, white members of the military while my source says that he's more popular amongst those who do the fighting now.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ramonna Villota

When I was over in Germany this last month the words of affection to Obama and the democrat clan made me even blush (visting some of the troops)

Yeah, and we're also 100% gay for "The Hoff".

So what?

(I'm so going to lose my permission to post images now.)

Briar Bing · 10-09-2008, 11:54 AM

Ifyou keep creating these theads Cris, I am going to start thinking you are a liberal.

You know what that means...

There will be one more passive-aggressive train pulling into the station!

I will have my Six-shooters of All that is Fair and Just on my hips.

Be forewarned!

**Eboni Khan** · 10-09-2008, 12:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Colette Meiji

I don't see how someone who was opposed to the war can want kids to die in Iraq.

Easy, every casket makes it easier to make a case against the war.

Why doesn't Obama or McCain or anyone else ever address the fact that more Americans are dying in drug/gang wars in the US than in Iraq. The death toll this summer in Chicago beat out Iraq.

Serenity · 10-09-2008, 01:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Colette Meiji

I don't see how someone who was opposed to the war can want kids to die in Iraq.

Quite the opposite. Those who advocated the war wanted people to die. That is what happens in wars.

Wow.

I guess if you believe that there is no such thing as a 'just war' then really there's no discussing this.

I'm just not on board with believing that anyone wanted to see our armed forces get killed. I'm not even on board saying "the dems want to see more body bags out of Iraq" because the implication is too much for me.

No one wants to see casualties but sometimes there is no diplomatic solution. And personally I'd like to be sure that we don't end up with a Neville Chamberlain in our White House.

Serenity

Serenity · 10-09-2008, 01:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Colette Meiji

The moment who the military wants to be president matters, because they are the military .. is the day we lose our freedom.

Yeah... let's not let that happen. I say we don't let them vote!

Sheesh.....

Jerboa Haystack · 10-09-2008, 02:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Serenity

I guess if you believe that there is no such thing as a 'just war' then really there's no discussing this.
Serenity

Just War? Ok, lets test that...

Quote:

The Just War Theory was asserted as authoritative Catholic Church teaching by the United States Catholic Bishops in their pastoral letter, The Challenge of Peace: God's Promise and Our Response, issued in 1983. More recently, the Catechism of the Catholic Church, in paragraph 2309, lists four strict conditions for "legitimate defence by military force":

the damage inflicted by the aggressor on the nation or community of nations must be lasting, grave, and certain;
all other means of putting an end to it must have been shown to be impractical or ineffective;
there must be serious prospects of success;
the use of arms must not produce evils and disorders graver than the evil to be eliminated. The power of modern means of destruction weighs very heavily in evaluating this condition.

1. What was the lasting, grave and certain damage Iraq was going to cause?
2. Had all other means been shown to be impractical or ineffective?
3. I'll grant this one
4. Um...yeah how's that aftermath thing worked out?

Iraq was not a "just war". It was a war of choice. By choosing war, those leaders chose to cause cause death and destruction.

Gotta side with Colette on this one.

Jerboa Haystack · 10-09-2008, 02:06 PM

Oh, and on topic...I used to respect Cindy McCain.

But what she said was beyond the pale.

Serenity · 10-09-2008, 02:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jerboa Haystack

Just War? Ok, lets test that...
1. What was the lasting, grave and certain damage Iraq was going to cause?
2. Had all other means been shown to be impractical or ineffective?
3. I'll grant this one
4. Um...yeah how's that aftermath thing worked out?

Iraq was not a "just war". It was a war of choice. By choosing war, those leaders chose to cause cause death and destruction.

Gotta side with Colette on this one.

So you think they all just shoutted "Yee Ha" and rode the bomb out of the bay?

I'm not going to go tit for tat over why we got into Iraq.

I reject that the men and women in congress, the president, and his advisors sent us into Afghanastan and Iraq with the intent to Get Our Troops Killed, nor will I agree they did it just to Kill Other People.

Sorry, I'm not that jaded.

Anytime you apply violant force there is damage.

But I reject that it was done solely for damage's sake.

Serenity

Jerboa Haystack · 10-09-2008, 02:19 PM

I can't pretend to know what thoughts the architects of the Iraq war had. But regardless of that, it was not a "just war". Not by any stretch of the term.

Quote:

Anytime you apply violant force there is damage.

Which is why those in charge have a solemn duty to ensure that force is applied only when no other option is available.

But I agree....we should drop the topic. It is years too late for the debate to do any good.

**Io Zeno** · 10-09-2008, 02:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kristian

I haven't gotten what you silly normal hoomans call 'sleep' in like, 3 weeks. I found out that it doesn't make you tired after a while. It makes you a GOLD FUCKING GOD. the caffeine just helps you keep channeling the GODHOOD.

Kris, someone needs to hit you over the head with a 2 by 4 so you sleep.

AMBIEN, IT'S LIKE GETTING CLOCKED BY A PILL.

**Io Zeno** · 10-09-2008, 02:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jerboa Haystack

Oh, and on topic...I used to respect Cindy McCain.

But what she said was beyond the pale.

I don't respect her, I think she AND her husband are head cases.

McCain's new offensive is going to backfire on him.

10-09-2008, 08:54 AM	#2 (permalink)
Ramonna Villota Senior Member Helvetti Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Iceland - Kansas Posts: 3,426 My Mood: SL Join Date: 3/6/06	Military 68% distrusts dims and Obama that is shameful __________________ Ramonna Enginn er verri þótt hann sé perri. http://www.plurk.com/Ramonna http://thepeoplescube.com/

10-09-2008, 09:05 AM	#4 (permalink)
Kristian stored in the cloud SLU Supporter PHIL LINDEN SKULLFCKED ME RIGHT HERE* Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 4,866 My Mood: SL Join Date: 2/26/2005	WHY DONT OUR TROOPS SUPPORT OUR TROOPS. WHY AMERICA, WHY??!?!?! AFTER ALL OUR TROOPS HAVE DONE FOR OUR TROOPS IT'S UNAMERICAN THAT THEY DO NOT SUPPORT THEM. __________________ Ming's Things http://slurl.com/secondlife/Stargazer/232/232/1501

10-09-2008, 11:54 AM	#16 (permalink)
Briar Bing Thorny yet fuzzy Oh, I zigs and I zags; I tos and I fros Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: MN USA Posts: 2,059 My Mood: Scrabble Blast Champion! SL Join Date: May 2003	Ifyou keep creating these theads Cris, I am going to start thinking you are a liberal. You know what that means... There will be one more passive-aggressive train pulling into the station! I will have my Six-shooters of All that is Fair and Just on my hips. Be forewarned! __________________ The fact that man knows right from wrong proves his intellectual superiority to other creatures; but the fact that he can do wrong proves his moral inferiority to any creature that cannot. ~Mark Twain

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10-09-2008, 09:06 AM	#5 (permalink)
Kristian stored in the cloud SLU Supporter PHIL LINDEN SKULLFCKED ME RIGHT HERE* Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 4,866 My Mood: SL Join Date: 2/26/2005	OH AND I WAS A POW WHEN THESE TROOPS DADDIES WERE A STAIN ON THEIR GRANDMOTHERS PANTIES PLZKTHNX VOTE FOR ME

10-09-2008, 09:11 AM	#8 (permalink)
Ramonna Villota Senior Member Helvetti Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Iceland - Kansas Posts: 3,426 My Mood: SL Join Date: 3/6/06	When I was over in Germany this last month the words of affection to Obama and the democrat clan made me even blush (visting some of the troops)

10-09-2008, 09:18 AM	#11 (permalink)
Colette Meiji Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 7,590 My Mood:	The moment who the military wants to be president matters, because they are the military .. is the day we lose our freedom.

10-09-2008, 02:06 PM	#21 (permalink)
Jerboa Haystack Senior Member The ears make the jerboa! Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 2,570 My Mood:	Oh, and on topic...I used to respect Cindy McCain. But what she said was beyond the pale.

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