Eboni Khan

Proof Ferraro is crazier then we ever thought?

Ferraro
Say what?!?!?! I am happy she added some historical perspective. Yes, I know most of you think Palin is some clueless backwoods redneck, but history and some little girls in this country might remember her as a woman without as much experience as a man with almost 4 decades of experience that could stand up to him and hold her own. Regardless of what side your are on, if you care about the advancement of Women even a little, you have to applaud Governor Palin on this moment, plus, she is 5 weeks in and she hasn't cried yet!

Chris Matthews

Diana Sawyer

Peggy Noonan

Tom Brokaw

Really Brokaw? I swear every since they were cursing on the air after 9/11 he has been off da chain.

David Gergen

Jim Kuhnhenn

Chuck Todd

Fred Barnes

Bill Schneider


Walter Ararkon

Personally, I think she owned his ass in that moment. The Bush administration is over, they are a lame duck. We are talking about the future and where we want to go. The past should not be forgotten and history should always be studied but stop beating the dead horse. The American people don't like Bush, he made some major fuck ups. We need to move on, lets look towards the future. This is where she as (ugh this is getting old too but it is true) "Washington Outsider" look fresh and appears to be bringing a fresh perspective to the table. Obama/Biden is supposed to be young vibrant and looking towards the future, by calling him out on this tactic/attitude she made him look like and old codger.


Rick Klein

If Obama loses, I think the choice of Biden and all the things he said about Obama during the Democratic Presidental nomination process will be pointed at. I don't think the 527's or the McCain campaign have even came both guns blazing (ha!) on this one the way they can, yet.

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Merovigan

Does "I want my children to see an X kind of candidate" only work with women, or can it apply to race too?

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“I prefer to be true to myself, even at the hazard of incurring the ridicule of others, rather than to be false, and to incur my own abhorrence.”

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Eboni Khan

I vote free for all. Lets not forget all the other special people.


"I want my child to see a Mormon candidate so he/she can understand exactly what believing an idiotic religion can do to what should be an amazing political career."

Mereille

Actually, she did better than I thought she would. But...if she had said nukular one more time I would have reached through the tv and scratched her eyes out! Gaaaaaaah!!!!!!

But....

Biden was dead on there. McCain policy going forward *does* equal Bush policy of the past 8 years. I think this horse still has legs.

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Vivianne Draper

No, she didn't hold her own. She refused to answer questions she didn't know the answers to, she toed the party line and she repeated, almost verbatim, answers McCain gave in similar questions in his debate. When cornered and unable to avoid a difficult question fell back on her little cutesy folksey act and/or quoted Ronald Reagan. She batted her eyelashes and let everyone know she was a former beauty queen and mentioned several times how she was a soccer mom and was on the side of joe six-pack.

This is not one of womenkind's shining moments.

When I point to a female politician I don't want to point to one and say "hey this woman is ignorant and unqualified but look how she dances around the issues in a debate" -- I want to point to an erudite educated woman fully versed on the issues who doesn't have to fall back on batting her eyelashes and using bad grammar to convince the middle class that she is just like them and golly gosh gee we can feel safe voting for her.

You call it advancement of women. I call it a step on the return to the stone age.

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Serenity

It does, which is both good and bad. I like the fact that this election is historic and that 50 years from now when I'm teaching my last class of my carreer I can say "yeah.... I was there when we elected the first <BLANK>" just as our grandmothers say "yes, I was in that group to be the first women to vote."

But we also have to balance our desire to be historic with what is 'best for the country'. History will look all the closer at the next 4 years BECAUSE they are historic. Let's also make sure they're positive.

Serenity

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"I don't care, I'm still free; you can't take the sky from me."

Jerboa Haystack

I thought Palin seemed completely out of her league. She relied on McCain talking points, "soccer mom", and 'sexy librarian' perkiness to try to cover for her.

A good debate would have been Biden vs. Olympia Snowe (who is a far better qualified woman for the VP nod).

But she's a pro-choice Republican, which makes her a pariah in presidential politics.

Colette Meiji

How can McCain/Palin run on McCain's experience and his record if they is unwilling for the Democrats to like .. look at his experience and his record?

Eboni Khan

What the hell is sexy librarian perkiness? How can this work for people that don't objectify and dismiss every woman they see? I have worked with a lot of women that look a lot like her. Hell, I even have that sexy nerd chick in my Gucci frames I use at the computer, but really I am more than just a woman that happens to be sexy I am professional, and so is Gov. Palin. I find your comment demeaning and repulsive.

Geez, just because you don't like the woman you don't heave to demean her just because she is an attractive woman. Attack the issues. When people made fun of Obama's big ass ears the race card was played but you can go all Palin all day long and people just snicker.

It is sad to see what are normally intelligent people acting like dumb, ignorant, uneducated closed minded rednecks all over politics.

FlipperPA Peregrine

The thing is, from what I've heard from pundits, is that they expected Palin to perform at her typical kindergarten level; she shocked everyone by performing as well as a typical second grader.

Regards,

-Flip

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Peregrine Salon: Flip & Jenn's thang.

Eboni Khan

He wasn't talking about McCain's record, he was going on and on about the Bush Administration. I understand the number one democratic talking point is to link the McCain campaign to the Bush administration but really, they need to move on from that. If that is the case can we go back to looking at all the fucking shady characters Obama knows? People can't have it both ways.

Colette Meiji

If McCain's record links him to Bush, who's fault is that?

============

McCain took a decided step the the right When Bush got into office.

Probably because he wanted to become President and knew it was the only way to get a Republican nod.

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Again they cant criticize Obama's lack of experience without making McCain's experience open to question. And if McCain's experience means he is aligned with Bush, then that is a valid criticism.

If Bush had a 50%+ approval rating it would be McCain arguing how much like Bush he is.

And the Obama camp would be trying to downplay it.

Rosie Barthelmess

1) Vice Presidential candidates should not wink at the camera during a debate.

2) As a fairly typical middle American living in the actual geographic "heartland of America", I resent being referred to as "Joe Six-Pack."

3) A debate is not the time to address actual issues with answers like: "Um, yeah. But let me get back to ENERGY." "Oh, yeah, sure, but I'd like to talk about ENERGY."

4) Sarah Palin is not the "average middle-class American," any more than any of the other candidates are the "average middle-class American."

As a military wife and a self-employed woman owning my own small business, I'm offended that she had to resort to essentially baby talk, winks and giggles, and deflection to try to make herself more approachable to "Joe Six-Pack."

She may have done better than many thought she would, but she's still far from being equipped to hold federal office.

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Trout Rated: 7.0
"You are evidence that a woman who is comfortable in her own skin has a definite advantage over those who are not."

Eboni Khan

Then it also links every Democrat who voted for the war. That logic only plays out for so long.

Eboni Khan

Do you ever watch CSPAN? I am not trying to be funny but if you watch the debates that go down in the House of Representatives. 98% of the people currently in Federal positions are unqualified.

The government is packed with assclowns. If you heard all of Biden's gaffes and mistakes in sound bites he isn't qualified either. I think he is more than the sound bites but he put his foot in his mouth like no other.

"Stand up Chuck!, STAND UP"

Jerboa Haystack

Shirley Jones in The Music Man, Susan Anton in All Shook Up. It's a very common theme. It's not about demeaning her, just classifying her brand of attractiveness, which I put on par with those two examples.

I'd be happy to talk about substance, if she had shown any. Like I said, she went talking-point, and perky too much. She came off as anything but professional throwing in "gosh darn it"s , and golly gee"s.

Gwen Ifill is not an unattractive woman. Last night, she presented herself with competence and professionalism.

Make fun of Obama's ears all you want. They're Lincolnesqe.

/me goes to rub some aloe on his neck.

Jerboa Haystack

Exactly what I meant Rosie. Thank you for expressing it much better than I did!

Rosie Barthelmess

"I know you are but what am I" isn't an appropriate argument here. I didn't make any commentary about Biden, as this thread isn't about Biden, it's about Palin.

Have you ever been to Wasilla, Alaska? I have. Have you lived in Alaska? I have. I currently have immediate family living there, actually, and I'm quite in tune with Alaska politics. It's very easy for people, for some unknown reason, to get sucked into the whole "I am an executive of a REALLY BIG state bordered by TWO FOREIGN COUNTRIES" rhetoric.

The fact of the matter is, every state on the northern and southern borders of the U.S. essentially touches a foreign country, and the entire population of Alaska, at 670,000 people TOTAL, has fewer people than many major metropolitan areas. Having 18 months experience "governing" a state with 670,000 people in it and being put under investigation for ethics within the first 18 months isn't exactly a sparkling set of accomplishments in terms of suitability for Vice Presidential candidacy.

I'm a military wife, a business owner, a college graduate, I've worked in the public sector and the private sector, and I consider myself pretty tuned in to the governance of this country considering how foreign policy decisions and domestic economic policy can essentially immediately affect my day to day life.

And I think that makes me pretty qualified to have the opinion that she's not qualified, whether or not I've seen someone stumble on CSPAN.

FlipperPA Peregrine

Were expectations lower for Palin or Quayle? I think she set the records for lowest expectations going into a VP (or Presidential) debate, ever. If she hadn't exceeded those almost non-existent expectations, it would have been completely pathetic. It is pathetic enough that the bar was set so low.

Regards,

-Flip

Rosie Barthelmess

Well, as a good friend of mine just joked to me:

"The general consensus seems to be, 'Well, she didn't black out.' You know.

'Governor Palin, there's the bar. Lying there on the ground. You can roll over it, if you're unable to walk at the moment. We can raise it over you and call it Limbo."

LittleMe Jewell

An interesting comment that may be more correct than many of us might think:

(from cnn.com)

Commentary: For Palin, a tie is a win

"Who won last night's vice presidential debate? The answer depends on which ticket you support. If you like Obama-Biden, then Joe Biden won.

If you prefer McCain-Palin, Sarah Palin did. That's how you can tell a tie. That's what this was. And since Biden was supposed to destroy Palin, and didn't even come close, this was a good night for the Republican."

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-Lil
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Life is all about "ass" -- covering it, kicking it, kissing it, or trying to get some.

Sometimes I wonder whether the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on or by imbeciles who really mean it.
(Mark Twain)

Cristiano

Rosie, your points have been incredible. I think her behavior in the debates was a step backward for women, not a shining moment by any means, because she resorted to acting like a bad stereotype and treated the debate like a stump speech. Her few moments of clear lucidity where she didn't resort to gimmicks and catch phrases are overshadowed by the rest of her empty act. She did a disservice to herself.

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* slu stuff *

Nel Shan

Thing is, McCain's trailing, and what he really needed from Palin was a show-stopper, not just performing better than anyone expected, i.e. barely competently. Biden knew that, and held his own without even breaking sweat, because that's all Obama needs from him right now.

Speaking entirely personally, and as a non-USian, Palin reminds me too much of my old manager: a fauxksy cute veneer overlaying a thick black core of self-serving narcissism.

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Colette Meiji

As far as the war goes, yes

Bush has done more than just fight Iraq of course.

But you make a good point about the War ..

Which is one of the big reasons Obama is the Candidate.

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Which is a lot like the reason Lincoln was the Republican's nominee in 1860. He had a record of being opposed to Slavery. While the Front runner had a record of compromise.

Jerboa Haystack

And McCain *has* bragged about his 95%+ Bush support voting record.