Cindy Claveau

So you're going to ask people to hire on and serve in a combat zone armed with nothing but a peashooter and a flashlight?

I agree they need to be done away with, and present a great many legal problems in whatever capacity. But maybe I'm just extra mellow today - this isn't worth freaking out over.

Fire the bastards and move on.

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Mereille

It was, allegedly, New Orleans police that opened fire on that bridge. I just googled "katrina bridge shooting" and found this NPR story:

What Happened on New Orleans' Danziger Bridge? : NPR

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Merovigan

IIRC that was local police who blocked the bridge. I know of no shootings - but I could have missed it.

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Cindy Claveau

Not yet. It was so quiet, this is the first I've heard of it. You'd think if they were billyclubbing protestors and shooting looters in the streets it would be on the news. There are Pulitzers to be won, after all.

Oh, wait. They were just escorting FEMA people around to keep them safe? Wow, those Nazis

Colette Meiji

To an unarmed civilian a sidearm is just as bad as a machine gun, really.

If the government is hiring temporary extra baggage handlers

and those guys waving the radar wands equipped with radios to call the real police.

Thats cool.

They shouldn't be hiring armed anyone that isn't part of a police force, an official armed government agency (like the FBI), or the military.

RandoymRandt

yeah I'm usually not too shy to google but it's 4:15 am here and I think i got lazy assed. Thanks for doing that.

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Mereille

Ok...everyone!

I just deleted that picture. After some more googling, the article I pulled it from was in error. That picture did not show Blackwater mercenaries. That picture showed New Orleans SWAT.

Blackwater wore khaki uniforms in New Orleans, not black uniforms.

I'm sorry for causing a stir with that picture before checking it's source better.

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RandoymRandt

The name...THE NAME...for the love of GOD couldn't they come up with a different name??? NO matter whose it is, it is JUST WRONG.

Vengence Opus

you forgot I.B.S.

the news makes me crap my butthole inside out.

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Surreal

This thread is going in a lot of different directions so instead of trying to quote and reply, I'm just going to line up some points spurred by several different posts.

The will to promote a war isn't the same as the will to participate in a war. Our elected officials, and the passive support of a majority of Americans, allowed the administration to promote a war, that support wouldn't have extended to burying their kids.

I agree, hiring mercenaries is a bad precedent.

The problem with Blackwater and similar contractors has been the lack of oversight, transparency and accountability. From a US perspective, a military force must be accountable to the civilians.. the executive, but ultimately the people.

Frankly, we also want a better breed of people. If we're going to heavily arm and target military units, we want them indoctrinated into our values so that atrocities remain the exception, and are prosecuted to the fullest.

As Cindy has correctly pointed out, this is not the first time the military has been deployed within our borders. I didn't see her mention the most recent that I'm aware of, the addition of Army personnel to patrol the Mexico-US border.

There is cause for concern considering the Bush administration's concentration of power within the executive and now is the time to rein that in --- on multiple fronts. I want the Patriot Act repealed across the board and if Obama is elected, I intend to be one of the people harassing my elected officials for it's repeal.

Is it time to don the tinfoil hat and do the zOMG dance? I don't think so. Despite all attempts to create a fearful population, there is still a great deal of native resistance to a naked show of force by the government - from both ends. The military and national guard units are not the plastic cut-out waiting instrument of oppression that some seem to view them as. They're fellow Americans, with family and friends here.

Do we need to re-balance the federal government and bring our system of checks and balances back into balance... fuck yes.

Does the potential exist that another 9/11 type event could lead to a police state. Maybe.

OK.. I have a pounding headache now. Going to suck down some Advil and get flat.

RandoymRandt

Thanks, nice post, good comments, and great recommendation on what I should be doing next. Nini.

Psyke Phaeton

Blackwater mercenaries used in New Orleans - Wikinews, the free news source

Serenity

Getting crazy and getting back on point:

In the horrible event of a major major disasaster (like the rocket engine plant near where I work getting nuked), it's possible that my otherwise fully law abiding gun owning neighbor may decide that he's going to go to the local FEMA station to get supplies for his family with his otherwise perfectly legal Semi Auto.

And you know, if my family has a right to some of those supplies, I don't mind US Federal troops along side Michigan Guardsmen making sure there is peace and order while we sort our shit out. Call me whatever you want, but frankly I have some faith that they'll do their best to be as civil, and professional and as fair as they can under the circumstances.

Yes, there will be problems, but those are kinda unavoidable when you have a lot of people with guns all in the same place with conflicting goals. Frankly I'd rather see the Military TRAINED for dealing with this than not.

And if I have to be evaculated because some tornado decides to park itself in Michigan for a few days, or because the Great Lakes flood the entire pennisula, then I really don't mind so much if it's the US Army, the MI NG, or even hired mercenaries, patrolling my neighborhood protecting my stuff from looters and opportunists until I'm able to come home.

It's a price we pay, and I'm not afraid to admit I'm okay paying it.

Serenity

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Brave Republic

You do realize that you can legally own a full auto weapon with a class III firearms license and a background check etc?

Hey just think, your neighbor might legally own a beltfed weapon

Did theyhave permits and licensing for automatic weapons? were they prosecuted--ie did anything wrong? Or was it just another nervous nelly who thinks that it's illegal to own anything with more punch then a daisy air rifle?

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Serenity

The $25,000 question is: How many events like those do we want?

That's what this always boils down to:

Conservatives: Security trumps Liberties. What's the good to free speech if you're dead?
Liberals: Liberties trump security. What's the good to being alive if you've got nothing to say?

We can go round and round and round (and quote Ben Franklin till our cntrl-c/cntrl v move becomes reflexive) but that balance will always be delicate and debated.

Serenity

Surreal

On a parting note...
Most of this comes from Bush flunking high school math. The number of troops required to occupy a particular amount of land with a certain number of inhabitants is just math.

Going into Iraq, the troops weren't there, so with he grabbed off the National Guard, and even more important... a lot of their equipment, leaving them less able to respond in the case of disaster.

Now, you can say Bush is stupid, or you can say his political handlers *cough* Cheney *cough* knew full well that the military would be overextended and since they only cared about destabilitizing the region and putting some $$ in the pockets of their buddies (like Blackwater), and that what we see now was the intended result.

Regardless. Want this bullshit to end? Then get the current fucktard out of office, elect someone willing to clean up the mess. And HARASS the living hell out of your elected officials until they turn this boat around.

RandoymRandt

The somewhat 'open' gun ownership thing, very American. I mean, the way you talk about it even, sounds...well I guess you are very American so there you go!


Particularly hand guns. I heard today they govt in the AU is trying to 'take back' the few (relatively speaking) they have already put in circulation.

Colette Meiji

Blackwater probably needs a new thread.

Not only does it not belong in the United States ..

It doesn't belong in Iraq either.

Blackwater is no different than civilians being given license to kill people. It is entirely unaccountable, and unsupervised by legitimate authority. It goes against everything the civilian control of the Military stands for.

Richie Waves

Those that will trade freedoms for security deserve neither!

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RandoymRandt

I have no quams with blackwater taking over this thread, it can flow where it wants to...unless you have already posted it that is.

Surreal

A free society cannot prevent these kinds of events past a certain point without turning into a police state. We are not the first, nor the last country to be the target of terrorism at hom.

You can't save the thing you love by killing it.

Serenity

Thanks but could ya actually post the ACTUAL quote?

And no I'm not doing your homework for you.

S

Merovigan

This is NOT what the OP video said.

For Christ's sake, the woman even sites her source and still you and Cindy are on about "Nuh uh! This isn't the first time the US military has done work in our country.

Pay attention here - This is the first time an active duty troop has been under the command of Northern Command.

Brigade homeland tours start Oct. 1 - Army News, opinions, editorials, news from Iraq, photos, reports - Army Times

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