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Surreal · 08-30-2008, 11:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eboni Khan

Normally I would agree but since they beat him until his hair turned white (within 6 weeks) and he refused to be released unless all the other POWs who were there before him, were released that does say a little something about his character. I would have taken that chance and left(so would most of you), he stayed and showed some backbone.

I don't think any of this makes him an automatic for President but I do think it shows some dedication to his country. There is no reason to down play his service, he is permanently disabled from it.

It's not a matter of downplaying. Brave said that it was all we needed to know about his character and ability to lead the country.

**Envoy Costagravas** · 08-30-2008, 11:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hope Antonelli

No she doesnt have legislative experience, she has -executive- experience...

The kid who lives next door to me ascended to Assistant Manager over at Arby's a couple of months ago. He's racking up countless hours of executive experience.

Sure, that's satire, but as I said earlier in the thread, the concept of experience isn't an either/or proposition, but something that has scale and context. To compare someone who has managed a small town in Alaska with the very weighty needs of a position that is one step away from arguably the most dangerous job in the the Western world is to ignore the reality of the situation.

If nothing else, this shows that Mr. McCain hardly places America First.

Cindy Claveau · 08-30-2008, 11:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eboni Khan

I don't think any of this makes him an automatic for President but I do think it shows some dedication to his country.

More likely it was dedication to his fellow POWs.

More than one veteran has said "nobody fights and dies for their country - they fight and die for their buddies".

I don't think that takes away from what he went through or what he did. But I think it's a more realistic spin on what happened.

Ray Figtree · 08-30-2008, 11:48 AM

OPEN ON A STARK SUBURBAN STREET IN ALASKA. THE CAMERA MOVES SLOWLY DOWN THE STREET.

MUSIC UP AND UNDER: Somber and dramatic.

VOICEOVER: Track...

Bristol...

Willow...

Piper...

Trig...

These are the names Sarah Palin chose to bestow on the human beings she loved the most; her own children.

THE CAMERA GETS TO A HOUSE. FROM INSIDE THE HOUSE, WE CAN HEAR THE CRYING OF CHILDREN.

VOICEOVER: If this is the way she treats her own kids, imagine what little regard she has for your children...and the future of America.

Do you want a woman with this kind of judgment a heartbeat away from the Presidency?

CUT TO CHILDHOOD PHOTOS OF BARACK OBAMA.

OBAMA VOICEOVER: I know how painful it can be to be stuck with a crappy name. Don't reward this sadist with your vote in November.

CUT TO OBAMA AND BIDEN IN PRESIDENTIAL POSES.

VOICEOVER: Obama/Biden. Their kids are named Malia Ann, Sasha, Hunter, Beau and Ashley.

hope Antonelli · 08-30-2008, 11:49 AM

And if he had picked Romney there would have been complaints that he picked someone with more houses than he has and is a Morman, Pawlenty that he was just trying to win MN, Lieberman has his own faults. So it really didnt matter who his choice was, the liberal mafia was going to try and find something to attack them on. I'm excited about Sarah Palin; i think she has wit, tenacity, boldness and a freshness that isnt spoiled by being a Washington insider. It was a bold risky move on McCains part and I dont see why everyone is so convinced he's about to croak any second. The type of skin cancer he has is rarely fatal; he has a clean bill of health from his doctor and he's more energetic than a lot of men 20 years yopunger than him. And besides, if you bring up that issue. Biden is almost as old, hes been in Washington longer than McCain has (so that kills the change theme for Obama, same old same old to me) If you can pick on Palin's thin resume, then Obama is a legit target too..Going to be interesting to see how they can dance around this one.

**Eboni Khan** · 08-30-2008, 11:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arilynn

Obama does not have a ton of experience, and it is a problem IMO. But he has experience in the Senate, even if it is for a short time, as well as his experience in the Illinois state legislature.

If you research Obama's record in the Illinois Senate he didn't do anything. Emil Jones wanted to make him a US Senator and he attached his name to almost every bill the Democrats passed the first year that Obama was in the Illinois Senate because the Democrats had (they control the whole state even though it is gridlocked because they hate each other) control. He didn't do anything, he just took credit for the work that other Black Senators from Illinois had worked on and he was more than happy to do it to further his career. Being an opportunist does not equate experience, it equates lack of character, especially when you take this suspect resume and toss it out there like you did it when everyone who pays attention knows that you did not.

Vanity Fair writes about it quite nicely, but it wasn't so sweet.

Quote:

Now, with Jones elevated to the senate presidency, Obama was approaching him with a cold-eyed proposal.

“After I was elected president, in 2003, he came to see me, a couple months later,” Jones recalled, relishing the tale. “And he said to me, he said, ‘You’re the senate president now, and with that, you have a lot of pow-er.’ ” Jones stretched out the word, as if savoring the pleasure of it, and his voice became very quiet as he continued: “And I told Barack, ‘You think I got a lot of pow-er now?,’ and he said, ‘Yeah, you got a lot of pow-er.’ And I said, ‘What kind of pow-er do I have?’ He said, ‘You have the pow-er to make a United States sen-a-tor!’ ” Jones let out a soft, smoky laugh. “I said to Barack, I said, ‘That sounds good!’ I said, ‘I haven’t even thought of that.’ I said, ‘Do you have someone in mind you think I could make?,’ and he said, ‘Yeah. Me.’ ”

Jones let the words hang for a moment, and then went on. “The most interesting conversation. And so I said to him, ‘Let me think about this.’ ” Obama knew that Jones’s support could single-handedly freeze the discretion of other powerful politicians in the state, and put endorsements of possible rivals on ice. “We met a little later that day, and I said, ‘That sounds good. Let’s go for it.’ ”

Quote:

At one point during Obama’s 2003 Senate campaign, Jones set out to woo two African-American politicians miffed by Obama’s presumption and ambition. One of them, Rickey “Hollywood” Hendon, a state senator, had scoffed that Obama was so ambitious he would run for “king of the world” if the position were vacant.

When Jones secured the two men’s support, Obama asked his mentor how he had pulled it off. “I made them an offer,” Jones said in mock-mafioso style. “And you don’t want to know.” Jones told local black radio talk show host and former alderman Cliff Kelly at the time.

'Cliff, I'm gonna make me a U.S. Senator.'"

"Oh, you are? Who might that be?"

"Barack Obama."

Quote:

Some Obama critics have said that, by working closely with Jones once he got to Springfield, Obama betrayed his reformist credentials because Jones came from the "machine" wing of the Democratic party, not the liberal, independent wing Obama was supposed to represent.
"Machine," Jones spat out the word. "Now, I don't know what that means. I came up through the political organization of Wilson Frost."
Frost was an African-American alderman and Democratic committeeman who served as president pro tem of the Chicago City Council under the late Mayor Richard J. Daley.
Jones said he just remembers Obama as a hard worker who, on his first day in the state Senate, volunteered to take on any thankless projects. Jones remembers Obama's comments after the Democrats won the majority in the state Senate in 2003, making Jones president.
"He came to me and he said, 'You're the Senate president. You have a lot of power,' " Jones recalled.
"I said, 'I do? What kind of power do I have?' He said, 'You have the power to make a United States senator.' 'Oh? I didn't realize that. If I have that kind of power, do you know of anyone I could make a United States senator?' He said, 'Me.' He caught me by surprise. I said, 'Let me think about it.' And we continued to talk, and I told him, 'That sounds good. Let's go for it.' That started the campaign."
Jones announced his retirement last week, following a controversial Chicago tradition of waiting until after the primary election so that the Democratic Ward committeemen, rather than voters choose his replacement. Following another Chicago tradition, he suggested and the committeemen agreed, to nominate his son, Emil Jones III. Jones III is expected to have little trouble beating Republican Ray Wardingly in November.

Emil Jones is a corrupt asshole of the worst kind. The stunt he is pulling now with his son that is being rubber stamped by the Illinois Democratic party has many people extremely angry. He was in Denver calling people Uncle Toms. Anyway I would be disgraced to be associated with some like him with the absence of any moral fiber.

Ray Figtree · 08-30-2008, 12:02 PM

I 'd like to see an interview with the power brokers who put Bush in the White House...

Richie Waves · 08-30-2008, 12:05 PM

Liberal Mafia.. I love it!

Victoria Kemsley · 08-30-2008, 12:19 PM

I know I'm late to the party.......but hell yeah......this is a winning ticket.

Word is she can debate and campaign like a Kodiak bear. Look out Dems, judgement day is coming!

I thought Obama’s lack of experience was not an impediment to his becoming President? Yet today experience is a show-stopper for Palin in the VP slot.

McCain/Palin ‘08!

Palin/Jindal ‘12 & ‘16!!

Jindal/Malkin ‘20 & ‘24!!!

Are you scared yet???

Markubis · 08-30-2008, 12:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arilynn

I hope Biden can be as tough on her as needed without people saying that he is beating up the poor woman. I hate it when guys go easily on women in debates because they are afraid of "hurting them" and equally hate it when others criticize men for treating women as equals in a disagreement. If it is going to be a knife fight, give them both knives and let them use them equally.

As long as he keeps it respectable and refrains from anything sexist he should not be criticized.

Markubis · 08-30-2008, 12:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Victoria Kemsley

I know I'm late to the party.......but hell yeah......this is a winning ticket.

Word is she can debate and campaign like a Kodiak bear. Look out Dems, judgement day is coming!

I thought Obama’s lack of experience was not an impediment to his becoming President? Yet today experience is a show-stopper for Palin in the VP slot.

McCain/Palin ‘08!

Palin/Jindal ‘12 & ‘16!!

Jindal/Malkin ‘20 & ‘24!!!

Are you scared yet???

LOL

Jindal/Malkin?

dear god!! that would be interesting...lol

**Eboni Khan** · 08-30-2008, 12:25 PM

CNSNews.com - Indian Americans Past Bidenâ€™s â€˜7-Elevenâ€™ Remark, GOP Leader Says

Quote:

"I've had a great relationship,” said Biden. “In Delaware, the largest growth in population is Indian-Americans moving from India. You cannot go to a 7-Eleven or a Dunkin' Donuts unless you have a slight Indian accent. I'm not joking.”

Quote:

"There's less than 1 percent of the population in Iowa that is African-American," Biden told The Post. "There is probably less than 4 or 5 percent that are minorities. What is in Washington? So look, it goes back to what you start off with, what you're dealing with."

I wouldn't be so confident that he won't be sexist since he clearly has some prejudice issues.

Richie Waves · 08-30-2008, 12:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Markubis

LOL

Jindal/Malkin?

dear god!! that would be interesting...lol

To quote Geraldo :

Quote:

Michelle Malkin is the most vile, hateful commentator I've ever met in my life," he says. "She actually believes that neighbours should start snitching out neighbours, and we should be deporting people. It’s good she’s in D.C. and I’m in NY. I’d spit on her if I saw her

Victoria Kemsley · 08-30-2008, 12:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Markubis

LOL

Jindal/Malkin?

dear god!! that would be interesting...lol

Me luvs my Michelle

LOL

Just curious, I know they have come and gone over the years, but am I the last republican left standing here at SLU? (at least the last one that will admit it)

**Eboni Khan** · 08-30-2008, 12:30 PM

There are some closeted ones *cough* Cristiano *cough*.

Persephone Milk · 08-30-2008, 12:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arilynn

I love the Politics subforum. But it pains me to disagree with the lovely and gracious Persephone.

But I do.

Palin has no real experience in national politics and with Congress. I think this is a huge problem if McCain dies in office. A president can get nowhere if she can't get the legislation she wants through Congress. Obama does not have a ton of experience, and it is a problem IMO. But he has experience in the Senate, even if it is for a short time, as well as his experience in the Illinois state legislature. It is my understanding that Palin doesn't even have state legislative experience. So to me, her lack of experience is more significant in terms of fitness for the presidency than Obama's.

Oh I don't think we disagree all that much Arilynn. Obama does have some valuable experience that Palin doesn't have. In fairness though, she has experience in the executive and Obama has none. Sixteen times in our history governors, many with no experience with congress, went on to become president. And I think you will find, that on the whole, governors have tended to make pretty good presidents. Still, I would agree that Obama is more experienced, I just feel it's only marginally more experience.

And never worry about disagreeing with me. Lots of people do. I am often wrong, and having somebody change my mind makes me happy

Colette Meiji · 08-30-2008, 12:39 PM

lol Geraldo isn't an authority on anything.

Cept maybe Hair Gel.

Richie Waves · 08-30-2008, 12:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Colette Meiji

lol Geraldo isn't an authority on anything.

Cept maybe Hair Gel.

I quoted him so I wouldn't have to type my thoughts on the awful cunt...

Colette Meiji · 08-30-2008, 12:43 PM

I don't think we would survive another 16 years of republican presidencies

Even if you throw out policies entirely - the system tends not to do so well under that kind of stagnation.

Apathy will be pandemic.

I believe that kind of "dynasty" happened before.

The Whig party ended up collapsing as the Dems dominated everything ..

then they finally lost and there was that whole little Civil War thing.

Markubis · 08-30-2008, 01:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Richie Waves

I quoted him so I wouldn't have to type my thoughts on the awful cunt...

Does that make you a pussy afraid to talk about a cunt then?

Victoria Kemsley · 08-30-2008, 01:14 PM

Ya know, we shoudn't really even be having this discussion.

Giving all the neagative press Bush/republican party has had over the past 4 years, a democrat shudda strolled into the White House.

Couple that with the canadates for president the republican party put forth, ranging from a religious nut job to just down right boring (McCain), shoundn't have even been a race.

All the democrats had to do was nominate a warm breathing body.

This election should have been over months ago.

Now this things up for grabs, with one little screwup by ethier side putting the other in the White House

Fucking Bizzare, but I think it's funny as hell

Richie Waves · 08-30-2008, 01:19 PM

Why do you think its up for grabs?

the media is invested in a horse race... a horse race it shall be..

I'm sure I be collecting my winnings in the Bookies and BO will be your next president.

Gigs · 08-30-2008, 01:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jacqueline trudeau

I say it is a a lesson for us to ignore polls and everything and everybody else that said this race was close. It is obvious there were internals in the McCain campaign that indicated his run was in deep shit. And that he needed to throw the desperation pass for any chance to shake things up.

Here's your internal:

"27 percent of Hillary Clinton supporters had now switched for McCain."

They wanted a bigger slice of that pie. The republicans are going to win because the democrats tore their own party apart at the seams. This is going to be a race for the history books for sure.

jacqueline trudeau · 08-30-2008, 01:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arilynn

I love the Politics subforum. But it pains me to disagree with the lovely and gracious Persephone.

But I do.

Palin has no real experience in national politics and with Congress. I think this is a huge problem if McCain dies in office. A president can get nowhere if she can't get the legislation she wants through Congress. Obama does not have a ton of experience, and it is a problem IMO. But he has experience in the Senate, even if it is for a short time, as well as his experience in the Illinois state legislature. It is my understanding that Palin doesn't even have state legislative experience. So to me, her lack of experience is more significant in terms of fitness for the presidency than Obama's.

Even if one were to argue the lack of experience being equal (which I also strongly dispute), for better or worse Obama with his lack of experience, was vetted and nominated by the collective judgement 10s of millions of voters, democrats and republicans alike. And before that to the senate with millions of Illinois votes.

Palin's lack of experience was weighed by a single person. Whose judgement would you trust on the "experience" angle - millions of Americans? Or a single person's?

Futhermore, Palin was elected AK governor by a total vote of 114,697 in her favor! My four block radius has more population than that. She is not nearly ready for the big stage - McCain and the Republicans will rue the day.

Gigs · 08-30-2008, 01:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Colette Meiji

I don't think we would survive another 16 years of republican presidencies

Yeah, the world sure ended in 1992 after 12 years of Republican presidency. Just because McCain gets elected doesn't mean he'll get re-elected.

08-30-2008, 11:48 AM	#404 (permalink)
Ray Figtree Gone, but not Figotten All the best, always. Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 1,437 SL Join Date: 5/13/2006	Transcript of First Commercial From Democrats in Wake of Palin Pick OPEN ON A STARK SUBURBAN STREET IN ALASKA. THE CAMERA MOVES SLOWLY DOWN THE STREET. MUSIC UP AND UNDER: Somber and dramatic. VOICEOVER: Track... Bristol... Willow... Piper... Trig... These are the names Sarah Palin chose to bestow on the human beings she loved the most; her own children. THE CAMERA GETS TO A HOUSE. FROM INSIDE THE HOUSE, WE CAN HEAR THE CRYING OF CHILDREN. VOICEOVER: If this is the way she treats her own kids, imagine what little regard she has for your children...and the future of America. Do you want a woman with this kind of judgment a heartbeat away from the Presidency? CUT TO CHILDHOOD PHOTOS OF BARACK OBAMA. OBAMA VOICEOVER: I know how painful it can be to be stuck with a crappy name. Don't reward this sadist with your vote in November. CUT TO OBAMA AND BIDEN IN PRESIDENTIAL POSES. VOICEOVER: Obama/Biden. Their kids are named Malia Ann, Sasha, Hunter, Beau and Ashley. __________________ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FMj5yPDp32Q Last edited by Ray Figtree; 08-30-2008 at 11:57 AM.

08-30-2008, 12:05 PM	#408 (permalink)
Richie Waves Joie de vivre! Is Three apples Tall Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Between Iraq and Israel Posts: 8,992 SL Join Date: 27/06/2005	Liberal Mafia.. I love it! __________________ My lastfm Oooh, Betty! the cat did a shit in the hat

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08-30-2008, 11:49 AM	#405 (permalink)
hope Antonelli Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 116 My Mood:	And if he had picked Romney there would have been complaints that he picked someone with more houses than he has and is a Morman, Pawlenty that he was just trying to win MN, Lieberman has his own faults. So it really didnt matter who his choice was, the liberal mafia was going to try and find something to attack them on. I'm excited about Sarah Palin; i think she has wit, tenacity, boldness and a freshness that isnt spoiled by being a Washington insider. It was a bold risky move on McCains part and I dont see why everyone is so convinced he's about to croak any second. The type of skin cancer he has is rarely fatal; he has a clean bill of health from his doctor and he's more energetic than a lot of men 20 years yopunger than him. And besides, if you bring up that issue. Biden is almost as old, hes been in Washington longer than McCain has (so that kills the change theme for Obama, same old same old to me) If you can pick on Palin's thin resume, then Obama is a legit target too..Going to be interesting to see how they can dance around this one.

08-30-2008, 12:02 PM	#407 (permalink)
Ray Figtree Gone, but not Figotten All the best, always. Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 1,437 SL Join Date: 5/13/2006	I 'd like to see an interview with the power brokers who put Bush in the White House...

08-30-2008, 12:19 PM	#409 (permalink)
Victoria Kemsley Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 838	I know I'm late to the party.......but hell yeah......this is a winning ticket. Word is she can debate and campaign like a Kodiak bear. Look out Dems, judgement day is coming! I thought Obama’s lack of experience was not an impediment to his becoming President? Yet today experience is a show-stopper for Palin in the VP slot. McCain/Palin ‘08! Palin/Jindal ‘12 & ‘16!! Jindal/Malkin ‘20 & ‘24!!! Are you scared yet???

08-30-2008, 12:30 PM	#415 (permalink)
Eboni Khan Senior Member SLU Supporter Join Date: Nov 2007 Posts: 3,605 My Mood: SLShopper Ads: 1 SL Join Date: 03/17/2004	There are some closeted ones cough Cristiano cough.

08-30-2008, 12:39 PM	#417 (permalink)
Colette Meiji Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 7,599 My Mood:	lol Geraldo isn't an authority on anything. Cept maybe Hair Gel.

08-30-2008, 12:43 PM	#419 (permalink)
Colette Meiji Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 7,599 My Mood:	I don't think we would survive another 16 years of republican presidencies Even if you throw out policies entirely - the system tends not to do so well under that kind of stagnation. Apathy will be pandemic. I believe that kind of "dynasty" happened before. The Whig party ended up collapsing as the Dems dominated everything .. then they finally lost and there was that whole little Civil War thing.

08-30-2008, 01:14 PM	#421 (permalink)
Victoria Kemsley Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 838	Ya know, we shoudn't really even be having this discussion. Giving all the neagative press Bush/republican party has had over the past 4 years, a democrat shudda strolled into the White House. Couple that with the canadates for president the republican party put forth, ranging from a religious nut job to just down right boring (McCain), shoundn't have even been a race. All the democrats had to do was nominate a warm breathing body. This election should have been over months ago. Now this things up for grabs, with one little screwup by ethier side putting the other in the White House Fucking Bizzare, but I think it's funny as hell

08-30-2008, 01:19 PM	#422 (permalink)
Richie Waves Joie de vivre! Is Three apples Tall Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Between Iraq and Israel Posts: 8,992 SL Join Date: 27/06/2005	Why do you think its up for grabs? the media is invested in a horse race... a horse race it shall be.. I'm sure I be collecting my winnings in the Bookies and BO will be your next president.

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