Persephone Milk

I have to disagree with this too. The republican party disparately needs young fresh people in leadership positions. And it will benefit greatly from having a female out there getting her ideas and thoughts into the mix. I think the country needs a Republican party with vision from a new generation. I am not sure if Sarah Palin is the answer, but she is more than just a cheap move. I have a feeling people are going to like her a lot.

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Envoy Costagravas

One can't simply talk of an ephemeral Experience quotient in the sense that you either have it or you don't. It is a qualifiable and quantifiable (to an extent) measure, and to say that someone was mayor of a town of 9,000 in one of our least developed states and ascended to governor a short number of months ago is somehow experience enough to take on the enormous challenges, *global* challenges ahead, is stretching credulity.

Barack Obama is not monumentally long-in-the-tooth wrt years spent in national/international politics, but if you add up his point with Biden's, and contrast that with the McCain/Palin card, it is hard to come up with anything beyond the conception that, indeed, John McCain has attempted a Hail Mary pass.

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"When Men differ in Opinion, both Sides ought equally to have the Advantage of being heard by the Publick;
and that when Truth and Error have fair Play, the former is always an overmatch for the latter."
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Envoy Costagravas

My god.

Pers, this isn't about parties, it's about the future of this country! You can't honestly say you care about what is best for every single person in this nation if you are hung up on what the Republican Party needs.

We need to save this nation. And if you are going to harp on the fact that they need women in positions of power, I offer:

"It's always said that the most important decision a presidential candidate makes is their pick for vice president. It shows their thinking and judgment. John McCain, in his first decision, has just told the world that he believes Sarah Palin is the most qualified person to be a heartbeat from the presidency. Forgetting all the available men for a moment, if John McCain felt it critical to select a woman in an effort to somehow grab the Hillary Clinton supporters, look at his choice of women he had available: Christine Todd Whitman, Kay Bailey Hutchinson, Elizabeth Dole, Susan Collins, even - for goodness sake - Condoleezza Rice. Or Carly Fiorina. Each of these have marks against them, and perhaps some might not have wanted to run, but it's near-impossible to look at the list and suggest to the American public that Sarah Palin is the best choice of Republican women to be vice president. And again, this is ignoring the men he who could have been chosen.

It's not that Sarah Palin is inexperienced. It's that this is gross political misconduct. "

The complete article is here. Recommended, as even if it is from a leftist site, it is well-written.

Persephone Milk

Did I say that? I said that neither Obama, nor Palin, has much experience that is directly applicable to being president of the United States. Joe Biden agreed with that. Hillary Clinton agreed with that. It's kind of hard to argue. Obama didn't get the nod because he had decades of experience like Biden and McCain. He got the nomination because people believe in his ideas, think he has good judgment, and because he has inspired the nation. I am just saying, give Sarah a chance to show what she is made of.

Persephone Milk

Excuse me? Now you are accusing me of having hangups?

I don't think you are being very fair minded in your discussion with me at all. Saying that I think the republican party needs an infusion of fresh young ideas doesn't in any way indicate I am hung up on what the party needs, or don't want to "save this country."

You are belittling me.

Envoy Costagravas

Ok - since my point was that merely holding a political position or office wasn't enough, that there is an entire spectrum from local town crier to Speaker of the House...

What do you consider experience directly applicable to being president of the United States? The scale goes from local dog catcher to actually being President... or having been married to one.

Envoy Costagravas

Excuse my unfortunate choice of words, then. I don't mean to belittle you, or your beliefs. My intent, maybe crudely put, was that when you framed the situation as that 'maybe this is something the Republican party has needed', my thought was 'oh my, this is far more important than one any one particular party needs - this could affect the course of the globe'.

Is that a tad better?

Persephone Milk

It's more politely worded, but it still completely mischaracterizes what I said. I was responding to Joshua, when one of his points was that Palin was not the best option for McCain's party. I was disagreeing. In no way did I suggest what was best for republicans was more important than what was best for the rest of the world.

Eboni Khan

Obama and Palin are equal in experience and she might even lead him since at least she has been a Governor of a state and a Mayor of a town, which is more than Obama has done. I feel management is one of the top skills that you need as President and Obama does not have a proven management background. I don't like the idea of Senators are Presidents at all, I would perfer either a big City Mayor (I wish Daley would run), Governor, or at least a corporate CEO or large non-profit CEO.


These tickets are about equal, as far as "experience" goes. That being said, neither ticket is worth voting for.

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Envoy Costagravas

Ah, crap. Pers, you have my total apology. I focused on your response only, not what you were responding to. Please excuse me, and chalk it up to a late night after a long concert.

Richie Waves

I think his campaign has been pretty amazing... that shows good management.. McCains on the other hand...

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Oooh, Betty! the cat did a shit in the hat

Envoy Costagravas

And all the rest. Guess what? I disagree. Eboni, if you really are in the Chi area, you keep some awesome hours!

Persephone Milk

Hey I am in Tampa Which is why I am over sensitive tonight. Erm. This morning.

Lo Jacobs

Okay.

Some harsh words from noted conservative commentators:

The bottom line for that one --

I should note that Andrew Sullivan had a bunch of good points today. Granted, he hates this choice, and it's clear he's lost a lot of respect for McCain -- but it's still interesting.

Another, by David Frum, a former George W. Bush speechwriter:

Nobody really knows who this lady is, and I'm still scratching my head on why McCain chose her. I really have no idea. I don't think she represents anything new at all. If I were a Republican, I'd be fucking pissed.

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Joshua Nightshade

I hate Andrew Sullivan.

Speaking of self-hating homosexuals.

Lo Jacobs

I haven't got much of an opinion on his Roman Catholic conservative gay self, but I like his blog.

Richie Waves

Oh.. Palins a Global warming denier too..

Newsmax.com – Palin Speaks to Newsmax About McCain, Abortion, Climate Change

Richie Waves

Somebody made a great point over on DU that I thought I'd share..

Somebody in the media should ask her of her opinion on the Christian doctrine of Male family headship...

See how the PUMAS like those apples



http://www.newmanmag.com/display.php?id=818

Eboni Khan

I don't sleep

Richie Waves

The GOP seems to think women will eagerly vote for any ticket that includes a member of their gender. That's Republican tokenism and pandering at its worst.

Ann Friedman | August 29, 2008


John McCain's decision to pick Sarah Palin as his running mate is the perfect end to several weeks in which we saw Republicans make weak claims that theirs is the party of women's rights.


Last month, Bill Kristol was predicting that McCain would choose Palin because "Republicans are much more open to strong women." (He also decried the "horrible sexism and misogyny" Hillary Clinton faced in the Democratic primary, but somehow failed to mention his own comment during the primary that, "white women are a problem, that's, you know -- we all live with that.") As recently as last week he was railing against the "Democrats' glass ceiling." And today, FOX News was already crowing, "Looks like the glass ceiling hasn't been broken by Hillary Clinton, but by Senator McCain."

Palin's addition to the ticket takes Republican faux-feminism to a whole new level. As Adam Serwer pointed out on TAPPED, this is in fact a condescending move by the GOP. It plays to the assumption that disaffected Hillary Clinton supporters did not care about her politics -- only her gender. In picking Palin, Republicans are lending credence to the sexist assumption that women voters are too stupid to investigate or care about the issues, and merely want to vote for someone who looks like them. As Serwer noted, it's akin to choosing Alan Keyes in an attempt to compete with Obama for votes from black Americans.

I can't help but be, oh, a little bit skeptical of Republicans' sudden interest in the glass ceiling. After all, this is the party that threw women like Lilly Ledbetter under the bus, in favor of businesses that practice wage discrimination. The party that stymied the Equal Rights Amendment. The party that not only wants to force women here and abroad to carry unwanted pregnancies to term, but also wants to deny them access to a range of contraception options.

McCain's Sexist VP Pick | The American Prospect

Malachi

This statement is patently false.

Obama has played on the national stage as a Senator, which also requires having bested other candidates from Illinois. He's been a committee chair in the Senate which isn't picked randomly. One can therefore fairly say that he at least has become familiar with the operation of congress. He has successfully run the huge gauntlet of securing the democratic nomination against strong contenders which demonstrates stamina in this marathon of a primary year and a half if nothing else.

Palin has been chosen by a candidate and has career experience which puts her in the bottom 10% of VP choices over the last century as I showed above. She has no national experience or prominence. As others have noted, the whole population of Alaska is smaller than Obama's senatorial district.

There really is no meaningful criterion on which Palin and Obama could be considered peers.

Markubis

What does any of this have to do with his judgement? Just because he only met her 6 months ago doesn't mean that he has poor judement.
She may end up being a wonderful choice and perhaps a wonderful leader.

What will tell if he has poor judgement is if she turns into a train wreck by the time the election comes.

Malachi

Washington University in St. Louis announced their plans to host - on October 2, 2008 - the only 2008 Vice Presidential Debate. Perhaps I'll be deeply surprised, but putting a small state governor against a 35 year veteran senator just seems almost unfair.

Joshua Nightshade

Or epic hilarity.

Fmeh

I think his choice gives him a much better chance. I was really hoping he'd choose someone ridiculous, but alas, he might actually have a chance of making it, unfortunately, as much as we don't want that to be true.

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