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Daisy Rimbaud · 08-21-2008, 12:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Charlemagne Allen

Err.... God is an immaterial being, whose existence cannot be verified by empirical means. Any attempt to argue about God is just one stating their dogmatic opinions, or even clubbing each other over the head with those opinions.

Trouble is, this applies to any immaterial being you care to imagine. I just have to mention the Great Sky Wombat, and since the existence or non-existence of the GSW cannot be verified by empirical means, you have to accept the possibility that the GSW exists - even though I just invented it right then.

Reminds me of Alfred Jarry -

The principles of pataphysics are incomprehensible.
Therefore they cannot be discussed.
Therefore they cannot be refuted.
Therefore they are, by definition, true!

Lucifer Baphomet · 08-21-2008, 12:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cindy Claveau

Ok. I'm staring at this damned thing and wondering

WHAT THE FUCK IS IT?! Photoshop job?

Ai! Ai! Cthulhu ftang!

CaleVinson · 08-21-2008, 12:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Surreal Farber

Oh, and can someone please tell my cat to STFU! He's figured out that I'm going away and he's being a right pest.

Perhaps explain to him that "we are all one", and he's only keeping himself awake?

Charlemagne Allen · 08-21-2008, 12:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lucifer Baphomet

TO CTHULHU.. A SON (NSFW)

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3092/...6c774855_o.jpg

Nothing like a bit of tenacle porn to wake one up............

Colette Meiji · 08-21-2008, 12:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Surreal Farber

You just brought up an idea that's commonly referred to as Pascal's wager. And then Beau misquoted some of my response as evidence of why I hate him and his beliefs, and am an all around bad person.

ahh k

Beau seems like someone who has been through a lot of these debates on this site or others.

I think the anti-Christian tone of many internet discussions on religion can really wear on people that consider themselves solid Christians.

Not excusing anything - it just seems like that happened. His wife seemed frustrated.

A little bit of a case of internet paranoia - seeing things in Posts that aren't there.

Lucifer Baphomet · 08-21-2008, 12:39 PM

CaleVinson · 08-21-2008, 12:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lucifer Baphomet

TO CTHULHU.. A SON (NSFW)

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3092/...6c774855_o.jpg

Why Luc, why !!!!?????

Surreal · 08-21-2008, 12:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mereille

Surreal, I can say this without reservation...the water is FREAKIN COLD!!!

Expect surface temps to be 60-62 degrees.

Well I guess then it's fortunate that I added an insulating layer during the last few months. So long as no shark mistakes me for a seal, I'm good.

I've decided I'm taking my fins, snorkel, etc. Staying above the thermocline, in the interests of not freezing my ass off.

Although I once went swimming in Lake Malmo in Sweden. I was so cold when I got out that I was blue. Luckily, my girl friends packed me off into the tent and warmed me up.

Charlemagne Allen · 08-21-2008, 12:40 PM

Charlemagne Allen · 08-21-2008, 12:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CaleVinson

Why Luc, why !!!!?????

Why not?

Arilynn · 08-21-2008, 12:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cindy Claveau

I see most concepts of God as really a sign of our human yearning to be loved and accepted. If we can't love ourselves or each other the way we think we should, we want God to love us that way.

That's interesting, Cindy. I agree that a lot of the ideas of a god probably come from some yearning in us, for love and acceptance, but also for comfort and answers.

I've been a complete atheist since I was 12, but when I was awaiting some very important news I found myself thinking/feeling "Please...please". Who was I asking "please"? I know I was not thinking anyone could hear me and deliver the results I wanted. But it is not far from that to directing your heartfelt requests to some higher authority and then attributing the consequences to the reactions, positive or negative, of that authority.

I'm not meaning to insult anyone's god. I just think it is a really interesting idea.

Cindy Claveau · 08-21-2008, 12:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Colette Meiji

Beau seems like someone who has been through a lot of these debates on this site or others.

I think the anti-Christian tone of many internet discussions on religion can really wear on people that consider themselves solid Christians.

I've experienced exactly that from the other side, though. I posted on the old Compuserve Religion forum for years. I was fine as long as I was in the Freethinkers' section, but the minute one of us ventured into the other sections to share our opinions, every worn-out pro-religious argument and strawman was thrown at us, we were damned to hell and accused of just being morally lazy. Sometimes it got so predictable that honest discussion wasn't even a question.

None of this is one way. But I don't find myself knee-jerking to people's suggestions that God exists. When I do, it's time for a break.

Arilynn · 08-21-2008, 12:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lucifer Baphomet

TO CTHULHU.. A SON (NSFW)

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3092/...6c774855_o.jpg

I just opened this and dropped an entire glass of water on my keyboard.

ETA: Dumped in the sink, wiped it off, and it survived! Now if I could get that image out of my brain....

Tya · 08-21-2008, 12:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Surreal Farber

I'd say it's generally beneficial to the human race to believe in something outside of ourselves provided that that belief causes us to become better people and act with greater empathy to our fellow humans.

It doesn't have to be god(s).

we also want to believe that there is more then this. this world and this life. we want to believe that we will see our loved ones again, we want to believe that our existence had some meaning

Colette Meiji · 08-21-2008, 12:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daisy Rimbaud

Trouble is, this applies to any immaterial being you care to imagine. I just have to mention the Great Sky Wombat, and since the existence or non-existence of the GSW cannot be verified by empirical means, you have to accept the possibility that the GSW exists - even though I just invented it right then.

Reminds me of Alfred Jarry -

The principles of pataphysics are incomprehensible.
Therefore they cannot be discussed.
Therefore they cannot be refuted.
Therefore they are, by definition, true!

Very true

But God as a concept would have a definition that defies limits.

Therefore it really doesn't matter.

Whether you call it a Great Sky Wombat wouldn't matter either.

However Alfred Jarry would be wrong. It would be more like this:

------------

The principles of pataphysics are incomprehensible.
Therefore they cannot be **explained scientifically**
Therefore they cannot be refuted.
Therefore they are, by definition, ***potentially** true!

------------------

Merovigan · 08-21-2008, 12:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arilynn

That's interesting, Cindy. I agree that a lot of the ideas of a god probably come from some yearning in us, for love and acceptance, but also for comfort and answers.

I've been a complete atheist since I was 12, but when I was awaiting some very important news I found myself thinking/feeling "Please...please". Who was I asking "please"? I know I was not thinking anyone could hear me and deliver the results I wanted. But it is not far from that to directing your heartfelt requests to some higher authority and then attributing the consequences to the reactions, positive or negative, of that authority.

I'm not meaning to insult anyone's god. I just think it is a really interesting idea.

I've done this before, about my daughter's safety. It's almost instinctual.

CaleVinson · 08-21-2008, 12:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Charlemagne Allen

Why not?

Because its 2:45am here, and I have to walk through 10 meters of pitch-black darkness to get to my bed, WITH THAT IMAGE PLANTED FIRMLY IN MY MIND !!!!!

Mereille · 08-21-2008, 12:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Surreal Farber

Well I guess then it's fortunate that I added an insulating layer during the last few months. So long as no shark mistakes me for a seal, I'm good.

I've decided I'm taking my fins, snorkel, etc. Staying above the thermocline, in the interests of not freezing my ass off.

Although I once went swimming in Lake Malmo in Sweden. I was so cold when I got out that I was blue. Luckily, my girl friends packed me off into the tent and warmed me up.

Have fun with that. I can't force myself any farther than my shins. I'll wave as you go by.

Colette Meiji · 08-21-2008, 12:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cindy Claveau

I've experienced exactly that from the other side, though. I posted on the old Compuserve Religion forum for years. I was fine as long as I was in the Freethinkers' section, but the minute one of us ventured into the other sections to share our opinions, every worn-out pro-religious argument and strawman was thrown at us, we were damned to hell and accused of just being morally lazy. Sometimes it got so predictable that honest discussion wasn't even a question.

None of this is one way. But I don't find myself knee-jerking to people's suggestions that God exists. When I do, it's time for a break.

Definitely - Its both ways.

However around Second Life related message boards there always seems a lot less of the Christian bashing the Atheists going on.

Ever since back to the old Off-topic/Sandbox forum.

Its also just as wrong both ways - Christians shouldn't badger Atheists either.

Tya · 08-21-2008, 12:49 PM

just hope you dont have to pp...in the dark...

Surreal · 08-21-2008, 12:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Colette Meiji

Beau seems like someone who has been through a lot of these debates on this site or others.

I think the anti-Christian tone of many internet discussions on religion can really wear on people that consider themselves solid Christians.

Not excusing anything - it just seems like that happened. His wife seemed frustrated.

A little bit of a case of internet paranoia - seeing things in Posts that aren't there.

That's the charitable view and one I've been trying to stick with, but after this latest go round I'm leaning more towards Beau having a chip on his shoulder and an agenda.

Colette Meiji · 08-21-2008, 12:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CaleVinson

Because its 2:45am here, and I have to walk through 10 meters of pitch-black darkness to get to my bed, WITH THAT IMAGE PLANTED FIRMLY IN MY MIND !!!!!

That image was disturbing yes.

I really hope it was Photoshoped and not an actual ...

Cindy Claveau · 08-21-2008, 12:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tya

we also want to believe that there is more then this. this world and this life. we want to believe that we will see our loved ones again, we want to believe that our existence had some meaning

The River « Virtually Speaking

Charlemagne Allen · 08-21-2008, 12:53 PM

This is why I don't debate Religion anymore-- it's about as much debate as Punch and Judy is intelligent comedy. Just believe what makes you feel good and don't impose those views on me.

(Muslims, unlike Christians, have the famous edict against forced conversions which they kept to for much of the their thousand year history-- the non-Muslims just paid the tax)

Surreal · 08-21-2008, 12:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tya

we also want to believe that there is more then this. this world and this life. we want to believe that we will see our loved ones again, we want to believe that our existence had some meaning

Yes, but that doesn't mean that believing in god(s) is the only answer.

I believe that my existence has meaning and at the very least, I know I will live on so long as I am remembered.

I'd like to believe we exist after death... whether it be in heaven, or Valhalla or as part of a great energy state. I don't despair when I think about the possibility I may never see those that I love again, I'm grateful that I had them while I did.

It's a question of focus. I'm very focused on here and now, not on later and maybe.

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08-21-2008, 12:39 PM	#956 (permalink)
Lucifer Baphomet Pampers Io Zenophile Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Darkmere Posts: 12,310 My Mood: Business: Radio Free Darkmere Awards: 1

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Charlemagne Allen Countess of Darkmere Heaven, to keep its beauty, cast them out, but even Hell itself would not receive them for fear the wicked there might glory over them. Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: USA Posts: 5,393 My Mood: SL Join Date: February 2007 Blog Entries: 1

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Tya Gone makar-rasa Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 3,796 SLShopper Ads: 70 Blog Entries: 12	just hope you dont have to pp...in the dark...

08-21-2008, 12:53 PM	#974 (permalink)
Charlemagne Allen Countess of Darkmere Heaven, to keep its beauty, cast them out, but even Hell itself would not receive them for fear the wicked there might glory over them. Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: USA Posts: 5,393 My Mood: SL Join Date: February 2007 Blog Entries: 1	This is why I don't debate Religion anymore-- it's about as much debate as Punch and Judy is intelligent comedy. Just believe what makes you feel good and don't impose those views on me. (Muslims, unlike Christians, have the famous edict against forced conversions which they kept to for much of the their thousand year history-- the non-Muslims just paid the tax)

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