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CrossingStyx

At some point everyone gets so sensitive no one is allowed to have an opinion. Using stupid was a bad call, but if Mero wants to believe religeous people are out of touch with reality it's his perogative, and realistically, doesn't impact you in any way. Posting on forums works better when you don't personalize other people's opinions...

Allana Dion

For the record, I believe that miracles happen.
I don't believe we should go through life expecting them. I think that quite often people attribute a miracle to something that was mere happenstance, but I also do believe that on occasion God does have a hand in even the small details of our lives.

I will say, if it were my child on the operating table, I'd be screaming to God for a miracle and I think that's true of many parents, whether they previously believed in the possibility or not.

All of the above applies to me only. I do not tell others what they should believe in, what they should think, or what they should feel. I do not call others "stupid" for what they believe in or don't believe in.

I expect the same respect in turn. I have friends who are muslim, jewish, athiest, agnostic, Christian, Buddist, etc. We get along fine. Some I discuss religion with occasionally, others I don't. But we do not insult each other's views or try to change each other's minds.

As to the OP, I think it's very important for doctors to be sensitive to the religious preferences and customs of their patients, even if they disagree with them and to only interfere in those customs when they risk the life of the patient.

In other words, if family members want to pray over a person after everything possible medically has been done in the hopes that the higher power they believe in may intervene, that is the family's business and the doctors should (and generally do) step aside.

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Surreal Farber

Yup, that's Richie. Just cause he's not trolling here doesn't mean he's not an overall troll... and therefore an excellent choice for muting.

As for Mero. Yeah... he likes to play full-contact forums. But then, this is the full-contact forum - hello Religion and Politics. So long as he doesn't call anyone cunts, who cares. If his style is too harsh for you, well then mute him and interact with those who call you names in a more graceful manner.

Sorry Beau, but if you can't take a bit of heat either by holding your cool or ignoring the fucktards, then you need to stay out of the Religion/Politics forum because it's a volcano.

Surreal Farber

I've had a really fucked up day so far, and it's only getting worse.

Ash

I don't think Beau is that insulted, he just stated he did not have the energy to debate this topic today. He said Mero and Richie have no tact, that is pretty accurate from what I see. That does not mean you inflicted deep insult. He gave his opinion on the subject then left.

I am proud of him for realizing it is ok to leave a discussion and not get the last word all the time.

Mereille

Mero is the one person on this board who can have me seeing red just by groaning. He doesn't even have to post anymore.

So, now I go out of my way to not get into it with him.

Mero!

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I don't know why I think I can manage Second Life....just look at my First Life! Gah!

Merovigan

On this, we do not disagree - I too believe (and can easily prove) that statistically improbable things occur.

We disagree on what we attribute those things. You say God, I say the not-yet-understood.

For the record, I'm right

Ash

Mero. What Medical Miracles proven to have a scientific explanation are you referring to?

Of course I attribute everything to God, but I am curious what cases you are referring to.

Colette Meiji

God rarely interferes in human events.

Colette Meiji

When he does they usually write a book about it.

Merovigan

I didn't refer to any Medical Miracles that have been proven to have a scientific explanation.

I spoke in general since "Miracles" apply to medical and non-medical alike.

Any and every case of a Medical Miracle has a reasonable explanation, by definition. If it happens, it can be explained. Maybe not right now, but it can be explained. "God did it" is not an explanation.

Mereille

For many people, these Amy Grant lyrics sum it up nicely.

Merovigan

This is a test...a trick even! I just know it!

Mereille

Just for you Mero, just for you.

Merovigan

Arilynn

With respect to people who view them differently, things like the Amy Grant lyrics make no sense to me.

So God protected you countless times today. But he didn't when those two cars smashed into each other and someone was killed. Then the answer is: But he has a plan or a test, or he decided it was that person's time, or that was the devil's doing, or God can't protect us every minute of the day because...I have no idea why - either one is omnipotent or not. "Omni" pretty much makes it a binary thing. I've never understood this.

Merovigan

Oh, and sorry...just cuz I had to...

Richie Waves

Religion threads are always the longest and most drawn out... why? because every time they turn into it being about the persecution/disrespect of religion and religious views..

How a Religion that is 1/3 the population of the planet has such a victims complex is a mystery to me..

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My lastfm

It's not trouble until its wreaked something

Ash

I assumed you had a specific medical mirracle that has been debunked due to a medical finding.

"God did it" is an explanation. With all the advancment in todays medicine, when a doctor has no explantion, it is my opinion it has to be devine intervention. I also find it no mystery that most of these people go on to be highly spiritual people.

Beau mentioned briefly our friend that had Lupus. There is no cure for this illness, just treatments to delay it. She no longer has it. Doctors have spent endless time running test on her for an explanation, they are stumped. Her Doctor finally admit to her after 2 years with no trace of Lupus at all, it had to be a miracle. I should also mention this is someone who got to a state her organs were shutting down. She suddenly just started progressing.

She is also now a Decon in a church and visiting hospitals all over the state. Maybe God just had a different plan for her.

Merovigan

I read something a while back that omnipotent and all-powerful are mutually exclusive - either you can know everything, or you can see everything, but if you try to combine them you end up seeing what you were going to do before you did it, thus not being able to change anything because changing what you saw would be impossible (since you saw it before it happened.)

Maybe that's God's problem?

Bard Jameson

And how self-described hard-headed realists can "protest too much" about issues of faith (not religion - a different issue) is a mystery to me. So strident! So quick to dismiss. What's to worry?

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Mereille