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Old 09-15-2018, 03:06 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Over 7,000 Pastors Admit They Don’t Follow Jesus

Over 7,000 Pastors Admit They Don’t Follow Jesus - Patheos

This one covers all three bases: politics, religion, and society.
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Old 09-15-2018, 03:55 PM   #2 (permalink)
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It's been a long time since Christians have stopped following Jesus:


You Samaritans worship what you do not know; we worship what we do know, for salvation is from the Jews.
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Originally Posted by Chuang Tzu
Tzu-yu said, "By the piping of earth, then, you mean simply [the sound of] these hollows, and by the piping of man [the sound of] flutes and whistles. But may I ask about the piping of Heaven?"
Tzu-ch'i said, "Blowing on the ten thousand things in a different way, so that each can be itself - all take what they want for themselves, but who does the sounding?"
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Old 09-15-2018, 04:09 PM   #3 (permalink)
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I'm following his blog now. Thanks.
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Old 09-15-2018, 04:37 PM   #4 (permalink)
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What the .... ?

I thought that was one of the key defining characteristics of christian pastors?
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Old 09-15-2018, 04:46 PM   #5 (permalink)
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What the .... ?

I thought that was one of the key defining characteristics of christian pastors?
You'd think they'd at least try to pretend to, wouldn't you?
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Old 09-15-2018, 06:52 PM   #6 (permalink)
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What the .... ?

I thought that was one of the key defining characteristics of christian pastors?
Right?
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Old 09-15-2018, 10:12 PM   #7 (permalink)
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The Christian church's original message was perverted by the likes of this guy to become the Religious Political Industrial Complex.

https://jacobinmag.com/2018/03/pat-r...istian-sanders
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In the seventies, evangelicals had no rigid political identity one way or the other. Over the course of the early eighties, due in no small part to CBN’s agitation, there was an overwhelming, demonstrable shift of evangelicals toward the GOP. Evangelicals came to speak of Ronald Reagan as if he were “on a level with the righteous kings of old Israel.” As they grew into their political identity — and the GOP started to favorably take notice — Robertson began advocating for the creation of a shadow government. “We must begin to find and train Christian people,” Heaton recalls Robertson saying in 1983, “so that they can be placed in every position that matters, because the country is on the verge of collapse.”
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Old 09-15-2018, 10:49 PM   #8 (permalink)
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What the .... ?

I thought that was one of the key defining characteristics of christian pastors?
To be fair, the headline is a bit tendentious, to say the least. The pastors in question didn't actually sign a declaration to the effect that they renounce their Christian faith or anything like that.

Rather, they signed a declaration disputing the idea that a concern for social justice is an important part of the practice of their religion. Many people, including the author of the article in Patheos, believe that this declaration isn't compatible with Christianity as they understand it, but the 7,000 pastors who've signed the declaration don't see it that way.

On the contrary, they would doubtless say they're concentrating on fundamental Christian beliefs, of which social justice isn't an essential part. Since people of wildly conflicting and completely incompatible views all claim to be Christians, I don't see why this dispute is particularly surprising.

I'm not going to get involved in a dispute about whose version of religion in which I no longer believe is the correct one, not least because I don't think there is such a thing as the correct interpretation of Christianity, any more than there is one of any other major religion, or that there's a single correct reading of Hamlet, come to that.
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Old 09-15-2018, 11:05 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ellie View Post
The Christian church's original message was perverted by the likes of this guy to become the Religious Political Industrial Complex.

https://jacobinmag.com/2018/03/pat-r...istian-sanders
It was perverted long before Pat Robertson was even born. By a few centuries.
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Old 09-15-2018, 11:30 PM   #10 (permalink)
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If anyone with earthly possessions sees his brother in need, but withholds his compassion from him, how can the love of God abide in him?
translation: "If we make you believe that overcoming your selfishness would solve poverty and hunger, then you'll be too confused and distracted to unite against those whose ambitions are actually causing that poverty. Oh, and full disclosure? This ministry is largely supported by the ill-gotten gains of the wealthiest among you, so our motive/message is a bit compromised."
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Old 09-15-2018, 11:52 PM   #11 (permalink)
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It was perverted long before Pat Robertson was even born. By a few centuries.
I'd say it was the first time they picked up a sword in His name. But then what do I know, I'm a heathen.
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Old 09-16-2018, 10:53 AM   #12 (permalink)
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I'd say it was the first time they picked up a sword in His name. But then what do I know, I'm a heathen.
It's a common theme in world religions to represent the downtrodden and oppressed. ...until they take over and then to hell with the oppressed.

The Catholic Church fully embraced feudalism and bitterly opposed moves to democracy because they really liked feudalism once they were in charge of it.
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Old 09-16-2018, 11:47 AM   #13 (permalink)
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I'd say it was the first time they picked up a sword in His name. But then what do I know, I'm a heathen.
Hi Heathen, I'm a heathen savage. Maybe we're related?
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Old 09-16-2018, 12:23 PM   #14 (permalink)
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It was perverted long before Pat Robertson was even born. By a few centuries.
I put the blame on Saul of Tarsus.
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Old 09-16-2018, 12:53 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Hi Heathen, I'm a heathen savage. Maybe we're related?
Hill savage, or river savage?
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Old 09-16-2018, 02:41 PM   #16 (permalink)
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I put the blame on Saul of Tarsus.
The only ones I don't blame are Mary and Judas.
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Old 09-16-2018, 02:43 PM   #17 (permalink)
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Hill savage, or river savage?
Semi-nomadic plains, by way of the big waters back when migration was still a thing.
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Old 09-16-2018, 03:14 PM   #18 (permalink)
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Hmm, nomadic savage... *shivers*
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Old 09-16-2018, 03:30 PM   #19 (permalink)
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Hmm, nomadic savage... *shivers*
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Old 09-16-2018, 04:29 PM   #20 (permalink)
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Viking heathen savage here. Could anyone direct me to the nearest Irish monastery, please?
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Old 09-16-2018, 04:52 PM   #21 (permalink)
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Viking heathen savage here. Could anyone direct me to the nearest Irish monastery, please?
Head east until you reach the Atlantic. Once across, head in a northerly direction. There's one around there somewhere.
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Old 09-16-2018, 07:16 PM   #22 (permalink)
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Define “follow Jesus”

The best pastor of my old Methodist church was an atheist. Did lots of great work helping the homeless, really hands on guy that greatly benefited the community. Did not preach Jesus’s divinity, only his teachings, and only the ones that mattered.

When news broke out that he was a liberal he was run out and replaced with some fire and brimstone yelling screaming pastor who was both anti-gay and headache enduring. I couldn’t stand him or the congregation which eventually got brainwashed by him over the years. He is the reason I quit church and the catalyst that put me down the path of eventually becoming an atheist myself.

These two pastors to me are the perfect example of the difference between believing and following.
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Old 09-17-2018, 06:46 AM   #23 (permalink)
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Define “follow Jesus”
Like most things with religion you have to start with defining terms. I have been watching a couple of atheist call-in shows on youtube recently and just have a feeling I would get a scolding if I called in and defined myself as an atheistic pagan. I would need to go all the way back and give my definitions of the words "spritituality" (your beliefs/nonbeliefs) and "religion" (who you hang out with and what you do). Since some religions do not really care about your set of beliefs you can get combinations like that.
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Old 09-17-2018, 06:54 AM   #24 (permalink)
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The best pastor of my old Methodist church was an atheist.... Did not preach Jesus’s divinity, only his teachings, and only the ones that mattered.
That makes total sense to me. I don't believe in the divinity of Jesus, I'm not even entirely sure that he was a factual, historical person, but I believe in the CONCEPT of Jesus and his teachings. I believe in the good that Jesus is supposed to represent. I'm incredibly disappointed in how certain denominations have interpreted that concept.

I don't think there's a single "correct" version of any religion. People construct the religion they want to follow and who they follow says more about them than it does about their particular deity. For me, the crucial question is not "Is this the one true god?" but "Is this the best god you can envision? Is this really the god that reflects who you are?"
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Old 09-17-2018, 08:24 AM   #25 (permalink)
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Define “follow Jesus”

The best pastor of my old Methodist church was an atheist. Did lots of great work helping the homeless, really hands on guy that greatly benefited the community. Did not preach Jesus’s divinity, only his teachings, and only the ones that mattered.

When news broke out that he was a liberal he was run out and replaced with some fire and brimstone yelling screaming pastor who was both anti-gay and headache enduring. I couldn’t stand him or the congregation which eventually got brainwashed by him over the years. He is the reason I quit church and the catalyst that put me down the path of eventually becoming an atheist myself.

These two pastors to me are the perfect example of the difference between believing and following.
I had a similar experience, except mine was with the Catholic church. Basically, the radicals ran me off forever and I've been an atheist/humanist for the better part of my adult life.

I'd like to see those hypercritical bastards taken down though, I hope it happens more, as generation after generation realize that "God" and "Religion" have nothing on common anymore and move away from the "church" because of their shenanigans.
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