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Old 07-06-2018, 09:18 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Anne Frank's Family Tried to Escape to the U.S.

Guess what stopped them.

Anne Frank's Family Tried to Escape to the U.S., Research Suggests
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Research suggests the family of Anne Frank, the world famous Jewish diarist who died in the Holocaust, attempted to immigrate to the United States and later also to Cuba, but their efforts were thwarted by America’s restrictive immigration policy and the outbreak of World War II.The Anne Frank House in Amsterdam and the U.S. Holocaust Memorial Museum said Friday that documents indicate Anne’s father Otto tried twice to collect the papers needed to obtain visas for the United States. He later also appears to have applied for a visa to Cuba.However, the Frank family’s escape efforts were all in vain. Eventually they went into hiding from the Nazis in Amsterdam on July 6, 1942 — exactly 76 years ago.”I am forced to look out for emigration and as far as I can see USA is the only country we could go to,” Otto Frank wrote in English to a friend in the United States in 1941.

His efforts to get the family out of the Netherlands to the U.S. likely started as early as 1938 — a turbulent year in which Nazi Germany annexed Austria and part of Czechoslovakia into the Third Reich. On Nov. 9 that year, Nazis terrorized Jews throughout the country in the violent Kristallnacht pogroms, also known as the “Night of Broken Glass.”

Otto Frank wrote in his 1941 letter to his friend Nathan Straus that he had filed an application at the American consulate in the Dutch port city of Rotterdam in 1938.

However, he also mentioned that “all the papers have been destroyed there,” because on May 14, 1940, while the Frank family was still on a waiting list for possible visas, the American consulate was devastated during German bombardment and all papers were lost.

Even without the loss of their visa application, it would have been difficult for the Franks to immigrate to the United States. With hundreds of thousands of people seeking refuge in the U.S. each year by the time war broke out in 1939, Washington was issuing fewer than 30,000 annual visas.

The processing of a visa application also lasted several years and included a huge amount of paper work, affidavits from relatives or friends in the U.S. Even with all these demands fulfilled, applicants could still be turned down.
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Old 07-07-2018, 01:22 AM   #2 (permalink)
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Might as well repost this into here:

Detailed thread:
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Click through and read this thread.

https://twitter.com/pookleblinky/sta...05256347979778

Also, if you're not following Pookleblinky's twitter, start.
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Old 07-07-2018, 06:33 AM   #3 (permalink)
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Much as your history books say otherwise WW2 was *NOT* our finest hour on many points. Yes, during the war itself there were *individual* acts of bravery, but 'the greatest generation' is mostly sales copy.
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Old 07-07-2018, 11:46 AM   #4 (permalink)
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Well, WW2 produced thousands of black veterans who *knew* they had more guts than the fat white KKK draft dodgers that were waiting for them back home.

It's no accident that the civil rights movement picked up speed after the war was over and their military service came to an end.
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Old 07-07-2018, 02:26 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Very true, but those were individuals. I meant as a country we did a lot that was shit.
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Old 07-07-2018, 05:53 PM   #6 (permalink)
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For all the good that FDR did as President, some of the stuff he did was pretty awful, too.
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Old 07-08-2018, 05:33 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Much as your history books say otherwise WW2 was *NOT* our finest hour on many points. Yes, during the war itself there were *individual* acts of bravery, but 'the greatest generation' is mostly sales copy.
I recently read Sarah Churchwell's fascinating book Behold America, which attempts to write a history of both "America First" and "the American Dream" as concepts from the late C19th to the middle of the C20th.

She makes the point that, right up until December 1941 and the attack on Pearl Harbor, the policy of "America First" and keeping the USA out of wars between the European imperial powers was very popular in the US, and also that the KKK -- at the time, openly identifying as "America's fascisti" on the model of Mussolini's activists -- and related groups were extremely active and enjoyed considerable popular support.

She frequently invites, silently, comparisons with Trump. One of them is in this passage, where she quotes an article by the famous anti-fascist journalist Dorothy Thompson, Who Goes Nazi? from Harpers, August 1941 (so, before the USA entered the war):
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It is an interesting and somewhat macabre parlor game to play at a large gathering of one’s acquaintances: to speculate who in a showdown would go Nazi. By now, I think I know. I have gone through the experience many times—in Germany, in Austria, and in France. I have come to know the types: the born Nazis, the Nazis whom democracy itself has created, the certain-to-be fellow-travelers. And I also know those who never, under any conceivable circumstances, would become Nazis.
Thompson runs through a variety of types at an imaginary party, and of one of them she writes,
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I think young D over there is the only born Nazi in the room. Young D is the spoiled only son of a doting mother. He has never been crossed in his life. He spends his time at the game of seeing what he can get away with. He is constantly arrested for speeding and his mother pays the fines. He has been ruthless toward two wives and his mother pays the alimony. His life is spent in sensation-seeking and theatricality. He is utterly inconsiderate of everybody. He is very good-looking, in a vacuous, cavalier way, and inordinately vain. He would certainly fancy himself in a uniform that gave him a chance to swagger and lord it over others.
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Old 07-08-2018, 06:17 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Yes, stories of people in our family trees who did something or other that was noble tend to blind us to the fact those were individuals (the one in my family who saved lives in ww2 was not surprisingly an immigrant). It completely blinds us to what the country as a whole, and its leaders, are doing.

There is a whole 'oh, if you say x is a nazi you are just exaggerating'. In most cases, yes. What do you do when the country's leadership fits the definition though? When the only question is if they are more technically neo-fascists than WW2 era style fascists?
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Old 07-08-2018, 10:16 PM   #9 (permalink)
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It fascinates me why the hell this girl is popular in USA - I mean, beyond being in school curriculum and I assume she is mentioned in Amsterdam but otherwise it is pretty curious as she is not mentioned in modern history in Europe (cannot say in Holland or she should be skipped). The answer is probably somewhere within 'anti-semitism! ' and the fact that not every written down recollection of her peers was redistributed or translated. Not saying she should not be popular but ... plenty of her peers should be as well and it gets weirder if you know which bits were cut out of translation (*cough* sex bits). In addition, plenty people did manage to get into USA despite all restrictions - be it illegally or legally and written loads presumably. All in all, am curious why her and will so Google more but never managed to find anything...



However, USA was probably really their best bet as MANY countries did close borders to any Jewish folks escaping Holocaust and they were in lock-down all in all. The whole 'Jewish Saving' thing is mainly as Kara said - individuals and only closest to them known whilst the ones who went public are possibly way over-exaggerated (Irine Sandler is best example). The common was completely opposite and plenty mass murder cases were blamed on Nazis while they were not (Jedwabne which borders my lovely hometown which was mainly multicultural with Jewish majority. Somehow the fact that there was a Ghetto also got erased ... as well as most population). This is precisely why all others formed a new country (beyond scripture that is and previous attempts) which has its own issues and totally a different subject.



Most countries are currently making best buddies with facism as it is mostly populist ideology that always sounds good at first - local concentration, caring about your own environment and then it becomes: 'we meant white environment and local economy without all the dirty and unnecessary folks'.
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Old 07-09-2018, 05:26 AM   #10 (permalink)
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Most countries are currently making best buddies with facism as it is mostly populist ideology that always sounds good at first - local concentration, caring about your own environment and then it becomes: 'we meant white environment and local economy without all the dirty and unnecessary folks'.
Of course anyone with any sense will realise that lack of melanin in skin is a temporary aberration. In fact, if you go to the "one drop of blood" thing their ideal group is even smaller. Obviously they will find something else in the future to call "the normal" but a lot of their current efforts will have to be completely abandoned, if not entirely retconned.
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Old 07-09-2018, 05:59 AM   #11 (permalink)
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However, USA was probably really their best bet as MANY countries did close borders to any Jewish folks escaping Holocaust and they were in lock-down all in all.

That! I don't know where this idea that we're supposed to take all of the world's refugees got started. I mean recently we've got Canada squeeling because they've had to take in more than they planned on because we're not taking so many anymore. Boo-fucking-hoo Canada. Contrary to what American Liberals believe, we do NOT have unlimited resources, and can only take so many no matter how much we might want to take all or just more.
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Old 07-09-2018, 06:34 AM   #12 (permalink)
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That! I don't know where this idea that we're supposed to take all of the world's refugees got started. I mean recently we've got Canada squeeling because they've had to take in more than they planned on because we're not taking so many anymore. Boo-fucking-hoo Canada. Contrary to what American Liberals believe, we do NOT have unlimited resources, and can only take so many no matter how much we might want to take all or just more.
Not all but if donnieco had their way we would take 0 (and they are trying to make it that way). Which flies right in the face of international conventions, can you do a google or should I?

Oh, and if we lived up to our convention obligations? Canada would not have anything to complain about, we are using them as the default place for what would be our refugees to go to, I would be upset too.
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Old 07-09-2018, 07:12 AM   #13 (permalink)
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That! I don't know where this idea that we're supposed to take all of the world's refugees got started. I mean recently we've got Canada squeeling because they've had to take in more than they planned on because we're not taking so many anymore. Boo-fucking-hoo Canada. Contrary to what American Liberals believe, we do NOT have unlimited resources, and can only take so many no matter how much we might want to take all or just more.

I think nobody is talking about taking 'all of the world's refugees'.
Not going to throw numbers around, everyone can google which countries host how many refugees (per capita or per citizens, the UNHCR provides lots of statistics). Spoiler alert: The rich countries are not exactly filling the upper ranks.

But the current US government surely makes clear how limited the US' resources are: The US has welcomed 11 Syrian refugees this year
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Old 07-09-2018, 07:15 AM   #14 (permalink)
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That! I don't know where this idea that we're supposed to take all of the world's refugees got started.
One reason might be that the USA is, or purports to be, a country founded on an idea:
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We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.
It says, "all men," not "all American citizens," and "all men" presumably includes those men (and women) who decide that their Life and Liberty are in serious danger if they stay in their native countries so it would be prudent of them to pursue their Happiness (and that of their family) by moving to the US and trying to make new lives there.

Of course, this was always so much humbug, since clearly for a long time the US politicians and legal system didn't regard all men as being created equal, at least not if they were the wrong colour, and the US has long tried to keep out people who were the wrong race or religion or from the wrong country. But I think that's where the idea comes from.
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Old 07-09-2018, 07:22 AM   #15 (permalink)
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Part of it is the US is a country created by Refugees. Also the whole "Melting pot" and "Bring me your tired your hungry" thing.

Except we used to call them immigrants.
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Old 07-09-2018, 07:29 AM   #16 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Zaida Gearbox View Post
That! I don't know where this idea that we're supposed to take all of the world's refugees got started. I mean recently we've got Canada squeeling because they've had to take in more than they planned on because we're not taking so many anymore. Boo-fucking-hoo Canada. Contrary to what American Liberals believe, we do NOT have unlimited resources, and can only take so many no matter how much we might want to take all or just more.
Gotta save those resources for the military, right?

That's the second time (that I've seen) you've used the term squealing when referring to Canada.

So let's see, you're against same-sex marriage, you're not too fond of Canada, and you think the US takes in too many refugees. The only one who seems to be squealing here is you.
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Old 07-09-2018, 08:52 AM   #17 (permalink)
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Thompson runs through a variety of types at an imaginary party, and of one of them she writes,

I think young D over there is the only born Nazi in the room.

Young D is the spoiled only son of a doting mother.

He has never been crossed in his life.

He spends his time at the game of seeing what he can get away with.

He is constantly arrested for speeding and his mother pays the fines.

He has been ruthless toward two wives and his mother pays the alimony.

His life is spent in sensation-seeking and theatricality.

He is utterly inconsiderate of everybody.

He is very good-looking, in a vacuous, cavalier way, and inordinately vain.

He would certainly fancy himself in a uniform that gave him a chance to swagger and lord it over others.
I think she is describing "incels" and violent Trump supporters to a T.
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Old 07-09-2018, 11:17 AM   #18 (permalink)
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I think she is describing "incels" and violent Trump supporters to a T.
I thought she presciently described the man himself.
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Old 07-09-2018, 01:01 PM   #19 (permalink)
But it refused. <3

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Originally Posted by Zaida Gearbox View Post
That! I don't know where this idea that we're supposed to take all of the world's refugees got started. I mean recently we've got Canada squeeling because they've had to take in more than they planned on because we're not taking so many anymore. Boo-fucking-hoo Canada. Contrary to what American Liberals believe, we do NOT have unlimited resources, and can only take so many no matter how much we might want to take all or just more.

Any Yanks out there wonder why you might get treated shabbily when abroad on holiday? See the above for an example.
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Old 07-09-2018, 01:12 PM   #20 (permalink)
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Any Yanks out there wonder why you might get treated shabbily when abroad on holiday? See the above for an example.
When I was in Ecuador in 2003, a couple German tourists came up to us randomly and began yelling at us about GWB. They calmed *somewhat* when I said "I didn't vote for that asshole" and oppose the war. They did still want to rant a bit at an American in general, war-supporting or not, voted for GWB or not.

I definitely wouldn't want to be a tourist now with that hatemongering fascist in office.
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Old 07-09-2018, 02:03 PM   #21 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Zaida Gearbox View Post
That! I don't know where this idea that we're supposed to take all of the world's refugees got started. I mean recently we've got Canada squeeling because they've had to take in more than they planned on because we're not taking so many anymore. Boo-fucking-hoo Canada. Contrary to what American Liberals believe, we do NOT have unlimited resources, and can only take so many no matter how much we might want to take all or just more.
Out of curiosity when did your ancestors arrive in America?
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Old 07-09-2018, 03:19 PM   #22 (permalink)
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When I was in Ecuador in 2003, a couple German tourists came up to us randomly and began yelling at us about GWB. They calmed *somewhat* when I said "I didn't vote for that asshole" and oppose the war. They did still want to rant a bit at an American in general, war-supporting or not, voted for GWB or not.

I definitely wouldn't want to be a tourist now with that hatemongering fascist in office.
Actually, I tend to feel sorry for the Americans I meet - I yet have to meet a Trump supporter, though. Those who travel my region or work here all seem to hate him. Or maybe those who are Trumpists avoid talking to the locals.
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Old 07-09-2018, 03:32 PM   #23 (permalink)
But it refused. <3

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jolene Benoir View Post
When I was in Ecuador in 2003, a couple German tourists came up to us randomly and began yelling at us about GWB. They calmed *somewhat* when I said "I didn't vote for that asshole" and oppose the war. They did still want to rant a bit at an American in general, war-supporting or not, voted for GWB or not.
Genuine Germans there.

Anyhoo, not exactly the point I was making though I can appreciate your plight. An anecdote: I was on a cruise and chose the fixed seating option for dinner where you and a number of others sit together each night. Table for eight, four Americans, two Brits, and my party of two. One of the Americans turned out to he one of those kinds of jagholes who upon learning there were Canadians at the table spent the next hour and a half telling "Canadia" jokes in that slow method involving a stare and a smirk one would expect of a serial killer or a daddy who would give his kids the choice between a belt, stick, or a wrench for their lickin'. The other US tourists were noticably uncomfortable with this guy, but said nothing. We arranged different dinner arrangements after that. At this point though, when I encounter those sorts of clowns I'll more often "choose the wrench", because fuck that guy.

And to all my fellow foreigners I'd like to gently remind that aside from the odd WASPy jaghole, most of those US tourists are the opposite of the ugly American stereotype. It's just the assholes tend to leave a more lasting impression.

And Jolene, when you make it up here for poutine and Molson with Isabeau and I, bring some of those fuckoff great county fair corn dogs y'all have. God damn those are what makes America great.
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Old 07-09-2018, 03:33 PM   #24 (permalink)
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Actually, I tend to feel sorry for the Americans I meet - I yet have to meet a Trump supporter, though. Those who travel my region or work here all seem to hate him. Or maybe those who are Trumpists avoid talking to the locals.
Same here - I just assume they're trying to get out of there as long as they still can.
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Old 07-09-2018, 03:33 PM   #25 (permalink)
But it refused. <3

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Actually, I tend to feel sorry for the Americans I meet - I yet have to meet a Trump supporter, though. Those who travel my region or work here all seem to hate him. Or maybe those who are Trumpists avoid talking to the locals.
Less likely to even have a passport.
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