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Old 06-17-2018, 01:49 PM   #1 (permalink)
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What a doctor saw in a Texas shelter for migrant children

‘America is better than this’: What a doctor saw in a Texas shelter for migrant children

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But the first child who caught the prominent pediatricians attention during a recent visit was anything but happy. Inside a room dedicated to toddlers was a little girl no older than 2, screaming and pounding her fists on a mat. One woman tried to give her toys and books to calm her down, but even that shelter worker seemed frustrated, Kraft told The Washington Post, because as much as she wanted to console the little girl, she couldnt touch, hold or pick her up to let her know everything would be all right. That was the rule, Kraft said she was told: Theyre not allowed to touch the children.
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This kind of emotional trauma could eventually lead to health problems, such as heart disease and substance abuse disorders.
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Nearly 4,600 mental-health professionals and 90 organizations have joined a petition urging Trump, Attorney General Jeff Sessions and several elected officials to stop the policy of separating children from their parents. The petition says:
These children are thrust into detention centers often without an advocate or an attorney and possibly even without the presence of any adult who can speak their language. We want you to imagine for a moment what this might be like for a child: to flee the place you have called your home because it is not safe to stay and then embark on a dangerous journey to an unknown destination, only to be ripped apart from your sole sense of security with no understanding of what just happened to you or if you will ever see your family again. And that the only thing you have done to deserve this, is to do what children do: stay close to the adults in their lives for security.
It further says: To pretend that separated children do not grow up with the shrapnel of this traumatic experience embedded in their minds is to disregard everything we know about child development, the brain, and trauma.
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On Thursday, the Trump administration said it will house children in tents in the desert outside El Paso.
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As partisan and as divisive as the whole topic of immigration is, we need to start with whats right, she said. Can we start with just keeping parents and children together while we figure out some of the other details?
The kids need to come first, she added. America is better than this.
It should be but it isn't.
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Old 06-17-2018, 02:25 PM   #2 (permalink)
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GOP, Democrats are outraged but at odds over ending family separation at border

While you idiots in DC fight over what should be done, children are being abused by YOUR (not mine) president and you're just letting him and his cronies get away with it.

Put an end to it now! and work out a reasonable plan that doesn't separate families and deny asylum seekers the right to petition for asylum later.

In this case, the children should come first, not some fucked up law.
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Old 06-17-2018, 02:50 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Many people (mostly Republicans) are pointing out that we separate children from their parents all the time when we send their parents to prison for breaking our laws. However, having worked in criminal justice - I know that -except in the case of crimes like murder, armed robbery, etc- women with children are often given several bites at the probation apple before being sent to prison specifically because nobody wants to separate a mother from her children. So, how come we can't tell these people seeking asylum - you have to stay in this geographic area and obey all of our other laws - while your case makes it's way through the system. Then, only if they run afoul of that relatively simple requirement do we do something as extreme as ripping a family apart. Because it also occurs to me that these detention centers for children could become serious recruitment centers for gangs such as MS-13 and Latin Kings just to name 2.
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Old 06-17-2018, 03:03 PM   #4 (permalink)
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This is not the America I gave 20 years of my life for. This is horrible and despicable!

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This kind of emotional trauma could eventually lead to health problems, such as heart disease and substance abuse disorders.
Not to mention, these children will grow up hating the United States of America.
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Old 06-17-2018, 03:40 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Zaida Gearbox View Post
Many people (mostly Republicans) are pointing out that we separate children from their parents all the time when we send their parents to prison for breaking our laws. However, having worked in criminal justice - I know that -except in the case of crimes like murder, armed robbery, etc- women with children are often given several bites at the probation apple before being sent to prison specifically because nobody wants to separate a mother from her children. So, how come we can't tell these people seeking asylum - you have to stay in this geographic area and obey all of our other laws - while your case makes it's way through the system. Then, only if they run afoul of that relatively simple requirement do we do something as extreme as ripping a family apart. Because it also occurs to me that these detention centers for children could become serious recruitment centers for gangs such as MS-13 and Latin Kings just to name 2.
As I understand it, entering the USA illegally is only a misdemeanour, so not the most serious of offences, and if someone enters the USA to claim asylum, their mode of entry cannot be illegal -- so they commit no offence -- if asylum is eventually granted.

The relevant offence seems to be 8 U.S. Code 1325 - Improper entry by alien, which specifies a maximum penalty of a fine or 6 months' custody for a first offence.

So the most that can be said is that people are being held in custody, and their children removed from their care, because they are suspected of having committed a misdemeanour, but they are, of course, innocent until proven guilty and that can't happen until after their claim for asylum has been properly assessed. If they are proven guilty, then, they'll almost certainly have spent longer on remand than any sentence the court could possibly award them.

I find it difficult to believe that, in the normal course of events, a US court would be prepared to separate a young child from its carer(s) over a misdemeanour that carries a maximum penalty of 6 months (2 years for a second offence), particularly when there are no other family members to care for the child while their main carer is in custody.

This is certainly not the way we handle things in the UK, and our treatment of asylum seekers is nothing to be proud of.

Over here, asylum seekers are, if they are detained at all are detained in special detention centres, where children can be with their family, but generally they are required to live at specified addresses (in accommodation provided by the Immigration Service) and provided with vouchers for food and the like while their applications are considered.

Generally, an asylum seeker in the UK would expect to be detained only in the event the Immigration Service were trying to deport him or her after an unsuccessful claim.

Last edited by Innula Zenovka; 06-17-2018 at 05:30 PM.
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Old 06-17-2018, 04:22 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Worse, they are basically forcing those taking care of these children to emotionally abuse them, simply by not allowing human contact.


There is a lot more to this than simple 'their parents broke the law'. And I think if the GOP does not do anything about this and soon? There won't be a gop anymore [which wouldn't hurt me any, but.... ]
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Old 06-17-2018, 05:58 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Systematic child abuse happening right in front of the public's noses, and a big section of the public think it's a good thing and want more of it.

But remember, calling conservatives names is why Trump won.
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Old 06-17-2018, 06:36 PM   #8 (permalink)
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https://www.scientificamerican.com/a.../infant-touch/


That's just one of countless studies and articles that only show what anybody who has worked with small children already knows: Denying them physical contact is gross child abuse, you might as well beat them senseless.


With this Trump has lost his right to call himself a human being, he's a monster.


I'm actually crying now. I can't imagine than something like this can happen in a country that likes to call itself civilized.

Last edited by ChinRey; 06-17-2018 at 06:36 PM. Reason: Correcting typos
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Old 06-17-2018, 06:38 PM   #9 (permalink)
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What a doctor saw in a Texas shelter for migrant children

And here comes "Melanie" "be best":
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Old 06-17-2018, 06:48 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Looks like the Catholic Church - or at least one US diocese - is stepping into the fray:

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Old 06-17-2018, 06:49 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Zaida Gearbox View Post
Many people (mostly Republicans) are pointing out that we separate children from their parents all the time when we send their parents to prison for breaking our laws.
Yeah, that doesn't hold any water anyway. People using that are really starting to work on my nerves. It's not even logical for them to bring that up.

First of all, kids aren't taken from their parents for something like Trespassing. Which is on par with what appearing at the border, or crossing it to seek asylum, amounts to. Also, these kids are being taken, in many cases, BEFORE their parents are even charged with anything.

Secondly, we're talking about children who have already been traumatized in having to leave their birthplaces, however violent they are, and are in a strange place, with no one they know and likely hearing a language they neither speak nor understand. American mothers who commit serious crimes...felonies...and who are remanded to prison usually have family members who are able to step up and take the children. The kids are usually able to visit or speak with their parents on a regular basis, and they are usually surrounded by familiar things. Even if sent to foster care, it's still their own country, and even THEN, many of THEM still need counseling to recover from trauma. Or end up living messed up lives because they don't have the tools to recover from the trauma. That, however, is STILL not close to 2000 kids in a matter of a couple of months.

I'm tired of seeing that 'defense' for this policy. It's weak and it's comparing apples to oranges.
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Old 06-17-2018, 07:14 PM   #12 (permalink)
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So where are these hypocritcal fucksticks now?

Getting fat and rich off the the private prisons that they're stuffing illegal immigrants into, no doubt.

Fucking damned hypocritcal 'FAMILY VALUES' turd-munching nazi parasites.

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Old 06-17-2018, 07:15 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Aribeth Zelin View Post
Worse, they are basically forcing those taking care of these children to emotionally abuse them, simply by not allowing human contact.


There is a lot more to this than simple 'their parents broke the law'. And I think if the GOP does not do anything about this and soon? There won't be a gop anymore [which wouldn't hurt me any, but.... ]
Wait - no human contact at all? How? Some of these children are really young, and young children need to be held and cuddled. They NEED it almost as much as they need food and water. If I was working in one of these facilities, it'd be all I could do to not smuggle 1 or 10 of them home with me. I'm sure I'd have one or two of the little ones in my arms or on my hips at all times.

I told a Republican friend - who is upset about this situation - the problem is Dump doesn't know what he's doing. So, he's got these wildly conflicting feelings/thoughts about the immigration situation, and he changes his mind about what we should do about every 30 seconds. The problem is that he's the president.

I've got wildly conflicting feelings (was you all know) about the immigration situation, and sometimes change my mind about what should be done, but... I'm not in a position of power, so it's okay. I understand that we do not have unlimited resources in this country. Canada seems to be squeeling like a pig about their increase in illegal immigration, and they haven't got 1/10th the migrants we do. We can't help everyone. I get that. But, these are kids! Kids! Babies!

If Dump is so worried about gangs like MS-13 why is he helping them in their recruiting?
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Old 06-17-2018, 07:44 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Fuck her, and fuck anyone who supports this. If Trump is doing this to innocent children in some bid to get his fucking wall built or other draconian immigration measures by Congress he's no better than some criminal who holds a knife to an innocent person's throat in a hostage situation.

This kind of brutality doesn't just occur to someone to use as a negotiation tactic, especially upon such weak and helpless people as children. It's part of who he/Sessions and the rest of that crew are.

I hope he rots from the inside out. I hope he begins to look like the evil monster on the outside that he is inside until he is so hideous that anyone who sets eyes upon him cringes in horror.
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Old 06-17-2018, 07:54 PM   #15 (permalink)
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I find it difficult to believe that, in the normal course of events, a US court would be prepared to separate a young child from its carer(s) over a misdemeanour that carries a maximum penalty of 6 months (2 years for a second offence), particularly when there are no other family members to care for the child while their main carer is in custody.
In the US, Immigration Courts are not a part of the Judicial Branch like most courts. They are overseen by the Department of Justice, which means that the Attorney General has broad power to set how things like pretrial detention work. They operate completely outside of the regular criminal justice system.
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Old 06-17-2018, 08:20 PM   #16 (permalink)
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I hope he rots from the inside out. I hope he begins to look like the evil monster on the outside that he is inside until he is so hideous that anyone who sets eyes upon him cringes in horror.
Too late.
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Old 06-17-2018, 08:21 PM   #17 (permalink)
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And the lies continue:

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Old 06-17-2018, 08:55 PM   #18 (permalink)
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So where are these hypocritcal fucksticks now?

Getting fat and rich off the the private prisons that they're stuffing illegal immigrants into, no doubt.

Fucking damned hypocritcal 'FAMILY VALUES' turd-munching nazi parasites.

You can't "practice what you preach" when you don't believe in what you preach in the first place.
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Old 06-17-2018, 09:18 PM   #19 (permalink)
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You can't "practice what you preach" when you don't believe in what you preach in the first place.
It's not about practice, nor preaching.

It's about commanding others to do what you tell them to.
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Old 06-17-2018, 09:27 PM   #20 (permalink)
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GOP, Democrats are outraged but at odds over ending family separation at border

While you idiots in DC fight over what should be done, children are being abused by YOUR (not mine) president and you're just letting him and his cronies get away with it.

That headline is wrong in how misleading it is.
Forty-three Democrats in the Senate agreed to the legislation forbidding separation yesterday (there are only 47 Dems + 2 Independents in the Senate).
Not a single Republican would sign on. They are demanding they get a wall paid for first.


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This is the memorandum that called for added measures, specifically for making sure they find charges to file when they can. I'm hearing that separation even happens first sometimes, before anyone is charged with anything.
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Old 06-17-2018, 09:41 PM   #21 (permalink)
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And here's another type of danger faced by those living here.
Deputy Threatens Mom With Deportation to Molest 4 Year-old Girl
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Old 06-18-2018, 12:04 AM   #22 (permalink)
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It's not about practice, nor preaching.

It's about commanding others to do what you tell them to.
Figure of speech.

Those who don't "practice what they preach" are the ones who are trying to control everyone else.
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Old 06-18-2018, 12:12 AM   #23 (permalink)
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That headline is wrong in how misleading it is.
Forty-three Democrats in the Senate agreed to the legislation forbidding separation yesterday (there are only 47 Dems + 2 Independents in the Senate).
Not a single Republican would sign on. They are demanding they get a wall paid for first.
First paragraph of the article (which is supposed to tell you what the article is about) says:

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Republican and Democratic lawmakers alike on Sunday called for Congress to pass a law ending the Trump administration’s practice of separating and detaining families trying to cross the border into the United States, but the two sides remain sharply divided on what that bill should look like.
Repugs want the wall. Dems want the kids put back with their parents and not ripped away from their families. I would call that sharply divided.
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Old 06-18-2018, 07:32 AM   #24 (permalink)
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First paragraph of the article (which is supposed to tell you what the article is about) says:

You're correct - I wasn't comprehending it right. Short line, but I was reading it that Dems were at odds among themselves.
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Old 06-18-2018, 08:57 AM   #25 (permalink)
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Laura Bush: Separating children from their parents at the border ‘breaks my heart’
https://www.washingtonpost.com/f2df5...=.bf761efb5356

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The reason for these separations is a zero-tolerance policy for their parents, who are accused of illegally crossing our borders.

I live in a border state. I appreciate the need to enforce and protect our international boundaries, but this zero-tolerance policy is cruel. It is immoral. And it breaks my heart.

Our government should not be in the business of warehousing children in converted box stores or making plans to place them in tent cities in the desert outside of El Paso. These images are eerily reminiscent of the Japanese American internment camps of World War II, now considered to have been one of the most shameful episodes in U.S. history. We also know that this treatment inflicts trauma; interned Japanese have been two times as likely to suffer cardiovascular disease or die prematurely than those who were not interned.
She acknowledges that it is the zero tolerance policy causing this, which gives an indication that she isn't buying the White House lies. While I think it is good that she spoke up, I think it would carry more weight if it were her husband doing it. It would possibly get through to the dwindling Republicans who haven't gone full Trump.
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