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Old 06-12-2018, 02:45 PM   #876 (permalink)
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So what the fuck is grounds for asylum?
Being the right religion and colour, and not coming from a shithole country, I think. Being Norwegian, maybe.
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Old 06-12-2018, 02:58 PM   #877 (permalink)
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I have to discuss something that I think many of us are experiencing. Rage fatigue. We are angry. Angry as hell.

Where do we prioritize our usage of resources? I have been focusing on the voting side of things. But what if that is not enough, with foreign countries interfering in them, and the myriad of ways our own people are denying others the right to vote.

Two things stand out to me. Essence's comment about just why are we not protesting the government's dropping of the pre-existing disease clause? I think? Maybe a year ago that would have garnered extreme opposition. Today? Nada. Millions upon millions of people left out in the cold, and nothing. Also, the violation of human rights happening on our own border.

I think, faced with these daily onslaughts, we are losing the ability to focus on what we need to fight. We are being overwhelmed.

Protests? How much do they work in today's military police environment? They learned very much from the 60's. They adapted. They know that to wage a war with very little resistance from the people you use the National Guard, people who have no choice. You abandon the draft, because that might garner protest. You limit the right to protest. You put the bill for the war on credit to come due when your follower takes office, because again, actually paying for it upfront might garner protest. They won that battle, hands down, as America collectively yawned at the invasion of Iraq under false pretenses and hand-waved away violations of human rights.

They have been learning, but have we?

The old and traditional means are clearly not working. We are descending into full blown fascism and oligarchy.

What are we going to do about it? What can we do about it? How far exactly are we willing to go?
Yes yes yes. Exactly this. I'm beside myself. With every outrage I want to grab a Trump supporter and force them to listen to my opinion about it. But where would that get me. How can we get through to them I think constantly. What can I do with my limited energy?
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Old 06-12-2018, 03:15 PM   #878 (permalink)
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Old 06-12-2018, 03:25 PM   #879 (permalink)
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Believing that it's any kind of legitimate for the government to make such a major change on such a tiny margin of the vote.

Also believing that it was a majority rather than a mere plurality. That's weird too.

So, yeh, all of the above.

I wouldn't have expected anything to come from it to start with, regardless of the outcome. It's built on such a rickety foundation.
Of course something was gonna come from it. It's fundamentally and existentially important to the British people and a proxy for a thousand other grievances that the British people have or imagine they have. It's not something you just scrap on a technicality, or with an appeal to something nobody cares about.

It would be an even uglier mess than it already is if Teresa May announced she was cancelling Brexit. And even though she's currently stalling, she still has to at least look like she'll see it through to completion, otherwise she'll find her neck in a guillotine. The British people have not only voted 52% in favour of Brexit, but they have also decided that 52% is, in fact, a winning majority.

I hate that they have, but they have.
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Old 06-12-2018, 03:42 PM   #880 (permalink)
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Trump says he’ll punish ‘the people of Canada’ because of Trudeau’s news conference

I suppose this means the G6 and other allied nations must, indeed, all hang together or, most assuredly, we shall all hang separately.
Consider my jaw dropped for the umpteenth time today. The first was the separation by lies of immigrants from their children, the second the suggestion that Kim could just use some hotels. This is the third.

We're living in upside down world. Again, I'm so sorry that we elected this moron.
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Old 06-12-2018, 04:18 PM   #881 (permalink)
But it refused. <3

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Originally Posted by Jolene Benoir View Post
Consider my jaw dropped for the umpteenth time today. The first was the separation by lies of immigrants from their children, the second the suggestion that Kim could just use some hotels. This is the third.

We're living in upside down world. Again, I'm so sorry that we elected this moron.

No fist bump for my Ben Franklin reference?
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Old 06-12-2018, 04:29 PM   #882 (permalink)
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No fist bump for my Ben Franklin reference?
While impressive, and kudos to you, nah...I'm just so tired of all of this.

I'm going to retreat now, catch my breath and try to understand everything I can do to stop the madness.
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Old 06-12-2018, 04:48 PM   #883 (permalink)
But it refused. <3

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everything I can do to stop the madness.

Let Jolene stand as an example of what a citizen of the country with thousands of nukes should be doing.
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Old 06-12-2018, 04:59 PM   #884 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Jolene Benoir View Post
Consider my jaw dropped for the umpteenth time today. The first was the separation by lies of immigrants from their children, the second the suggestion that Kim could just use some hotels. This is the third.

We're living in upside down world. Again, I'm so sorry that we elected this moron.
I have been wondering for a long time now at what point will Europe, Canada, Australia, etc decide that Trump is enough of a danger to the world order to actually take some sort of action against the US. I don't think it's too far off.
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Old 06-12-2018, 05:21 PM   #885 (permalink)
But it refused. <3

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I have been wondering for a long time now at what point will Europe, Canada, Australia, etc decide that Trump is enough of a danger to the world order to actually take some sort of action against the US. I don't think it's too far off.

This is largely a US internal problem. Any alliance against the US could be interestingly disastrous. Any military alliance threatening to this administration means the Earth is a smoking radioactive husk. No survivors.
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Old 06-12-2018, 05:52 PM   #886 (permalink)
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Of course something was gonna come from it. It's fundamentally and existentially important to [some of] the British people and a proxy for a thousand other grievances that [some of] the British people have or imagine they have. It's not something you just scrap on a technicality, or with an appeal to something nobody cares about.
FTFY

Less than half of the eligible voters voted for it.

A massive number immediately came back saying they wouldn't have voted for it if they'd thought it had a chance to pass.

When just the first waves of the Brexit storm surge started hitting the beaches, Bregret got even bigger.

By the time May pulled the lever it was obvious to anyone that if it were held again, it would go down in flames.

Apart from the utter unworkability of the thing, there was more than enough pushback by then to pull back from the breech, if you had the character of an ant.

And the law is not a fucking technicality.
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Old 06-12-2018, 06:21 PM   #887 (permalink)
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Look, I hate it just as much as anyone with their brain switched on, but the idea that May could or would cancel Brexit is a silly fantasy. Put it out of your head.
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Old 06-12-2018, 06:23 PM   #888 (permalink)
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This is largely a US internal problem. Any alliance against the US could be interestingly disastrous. Any military alliance threatening to this administration means the Earth is a smoking radioactive husk. No survivors.
With him threatening allies (and international trade), I think the end is nigh for him. I just hope he won't end up a martyr.
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Old 06-12-2018, 06:48 PM   #889 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Jolene Benoir View Post
I have to discuss something that I think many of us are experiencing. Rage fatigue. We are angry. Angry as hell.

Where do we prioritize our usage of resources? I have been focusing on the voting side of things. But what if that is not enough, with foreign countries interfering in them, and the myriad of ways our own people are denying others the right to vote.

Two things stand out to me. Essence's comment about just why are we not protesting the government's dropping of the pre-existing disease clause? I think? Maybe a year ago that would have garnered extreme opposition. Today? Nada. Millions upon millions of people left out in the cold, and nothing. Also, the violation of human rights happening on our own border.

I think, faced with these daily onslaughts, we are losing the ability to focus on what we need to fight. We are being overwhelmed.

Protests? How much do they work in today's military police environment? They learned very much from the 60's. They adapted. They know that to wage a war with very little resistance from the people you use the National Guard, people who have no choice. You abandon the draft, because that might garner protest. You limit the right to protest. You put the bill for the war on credit to come due when your follower takes office, because again, actually paying for it upfront might garner protest. They won that battle, hands down, as America collectively yawned at the invasion of Iraq under false pretenses and hand-waved away violations of human rights.

They have been learning, but have we?

The old and traditional means are clearly not working. We are descending into full blown fascism and oligarchy.

What are we going to do about it? What can we do about it? How far exactly are we willing to go?
I don't know anymore. I just keep working with local grassroots campaigns because right now, I want to flip the House. If every single American who opposes Trump's regime and what's happening in this country, actually DID do something...anything...we could stop a lot of this.

The worst thing, for me, isn't rage fatigue. It's feeling that more people NEED to feel rage at all. Even the protests against the attempts to repeal the ACA last year weren't as big as they should have been. I think that there are to many people who are utterly convinced 'it can't happen here'. Even many Democrats, in their own way, bought into the idea of American Exceptionalism to such an extent that they feel we're insulated from some really bad stuff happening. Right now, not many people's day-to-day lives are being affected. The economy is going well, even while wages are stagnant, and after being worried about that for so long, people are grateful for any crumb.

Meanwhile, those of us who are actually paying attention and see where this road inevitably leads are being treated like 'drama queens' to some extent. Because the TRUE consequences of all of this haven't actually hit. WON'T truly hit for at least another couple of years. And by then, everyone who WILL be feeling the pain at that time and who finally wake up will find it's too damn late.

The biggest thing we need to do is spread awareness. We'll never reach the FoxNews crowd, and I don't even know how much people pay attention to things on a national level. I'm not sure the Democrats, as a party, have as much sway as we think. I think ALL of us need to start talking to everyone around us. Find common ground. The ones who aren't totally brainwashed by FoxNews have the same overall concerns we do. We just need to get a dialogue going.

I was out canvassing on Saturday morning, and we knocked on the door of a man who I'm pretty sure voted for Trump, although he's a registered Independent. He's not totally happy with Trump, but felt Trump was for the 'working man'. So we avoided Trump. And we talked about issues that affect us and that our Congressional candidate is making it a point of addressing. We had a great conversation with that guy, and now someone who had never heard of a progressive candidate who's running for Rep for his district is now VERY interested in learning more about her and is liking what he already heard. Those are the kind of people we convince. (I used phrases like 'you and me', 'us', 'working people like us', 'we', etc, a lot)

So, for now...THAT'S the sort of stuff I'm concentrating on. Russia is already interfering with the midterms. The SCOTUS just gifted those who want to disenfranchise Democratic voters and suppression is ramping up. We HAVE to start connecting with our neighbors and making sure we help everyone who is eligible to VOTE. We have to lazer-focus on the midterms right now. We really do. If we go down in flames in November, then I'll really feel like all hope is lost.
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Old 06-12-2018, 07:33 PM   #890 (permalink)
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Old 06-13-2018, 03:30 AM   #891 (permalink)
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Old 06-13-2018, 05:42 AM   #892 (permalink)
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Look, I hate it just as much as anyone with their brain switched on, but the idea that May could or would cancel Brexit is a silly fantasy. Put it out of your head.
Would? No. Could? Yes. There would be consequences, but she absolutely could take that bullet.
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Old 06-13-2018, 06:13 AM   #893 (permalink)
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...BREXIT is something that would have the same kind of impact as a constitutional amendment in the US. That requires a supermajority vote in the House, and a supermajority vote in the senate, and ratification (which probably requires a supermajority vote, but differes by state) in 3/4 of the states!



And Brexit had, at its roots, the same twisted political manipulation, the same stirring of the flaming midden that is ethno-nationalism as electing Hair Twitler.


Well, Sunshine, two can play at that game. Personally I've gone from being a solid Labour party guy in the UK and a firm Democrat in the US to casting my first ever vote for the SNP. You wanna throw the country into the same handbasket as the USA? Do it without us.
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Old 06-13-2018, 06:36 AM   #894 (permalink)
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I suppose this means the G6
Oh please let that become a meme now.
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Old 06-13-2018, 06:37 AM   #895 (permalink)
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So what the fuck is grounds for asylum?
Being a billionaire.
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Old 06-13-2018, 06:49 AM   #896 (permalink)
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I don't know anymore. I just keep working with local grassroots campaigns because right now, I want to flip the House. If every single American who opposes Trump's regime and what's happening in this country, actually DID do something...anything...we could stop a lot of this.
Frustratingly, by living in DC there is not a representative or senator I can support directly. Even though I can (and have) walk to both VA and MD if I do so to volunteer I will just feed into the R's "the Ds are bussing in people" narrative. Fortunately it means the WH and such are also within walking distance too though, so every time I go there for a protest (they are on pretty much constantly for one thing or another) it is one more person that news cameras might catch.
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Old 06-13-2018, 07:02 AM   #897 (permalink)
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Oh please let that become a meme now.
Yputube always vomits when I post them on mpbile so I don't know if this will work right.


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Old 06-13-2018, 10:24 AM   #898 (permalink)
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Look, I hate it just as much as anyone with their brain switched on, but the idea that May could or would cancel Brexit is a silly fantasy. Put it out of your head.
I disagree. May would do *anything* to stay in power - and if that 'anything' included cancelling Brexit she'd do it like a shot.
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Old 06-13-2018, 12:20 PM   #899 (permalink)
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Old 06-13-2018, 12:52 PM   #900 (permalink)
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Would? No. Could? Yes. There would be consequences, but she absolutely could take that bullet.
The consequences would at the time have almost certainly have been her removal as leader of the Conservative Party and her replacement by someone who would commit to Brexit. Her position after her ill-judged early General Election is even more precarious.
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