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Old 01-24-2018, 02:14 AM   #1 (permalink)
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Help me understand Libertariansim.

I'm sort of curious about the current state of it, as near as I can tell it's currently in a state of drama with leftover Tea-Party people duking it out with anarcho-capitalists for control with the occasional pedophile thrown in for lols.

I don't know if we have any LP people here on SLU, but is a relatively fair summary?
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Old 01-24-2018, 02:19 AM   #2 (permalink)
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Libertarianism is the same as it's ever been, Beezle: total wank for self-centered assholes who can't be bothered to pay taxes, but don't have the guts to actually move to Somolia.



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Old 01-24-2018, 03:00 AM   #3 (permalink)
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The usual mix of rich "I got mine, so fuck you" and clueless young pseudo-anarchists.

And now with a bit of Tea Party racism thrown in.
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Old 01-24-2018, 03:39 AM   #4 (permalink)
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So they believe that things like public infrastructure, education and protection grow on trees?
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Old 01-24-2018, 03:43 AM   #5 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sid II View Post
So they believe that things like public infrastructure, education and protection grow on trees?
Roadways would all be privatized.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free-market_roads

Includes such gems as "Bruce L. Benson argues that when roads are privately owned, local residents will be better able to prevent crime by exercising their right to ask miscreants to leave."

===

Education: Liked-minded people would form private institutions.

===
Crime:

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Let us remove the police from the equation altogether. There are no drug laws, there are no weapons laws. Everybody can have whatever weapons they want, they require no permission to carry them. Even before we begin building private security forces we can presume that more people would carry weapons in the absence of the State than they presently do, even in areas where there are no restrictions on carrying weapons at present.
https://christophercantwell.com/2014...alist-society/

Or, as suggested above, merely ask the criminals to leave.
===

Wow. The more I read, the even stupider this all sounds o.O

Last edited by Beezle Warburton; 01-24-2018 at 03:51 AM.
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Old 01-24-2018, 03:49 AM   #6 (permalink)
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The Randians apparently believe in freedom, especially freedom from government and regulations imposing restrictions on what they do.

Oddly enough I also believe in freedoms, but some of those I believe in such as freedom from poisoned medicines, cholera, neo-servitude to monopolies, etc. require regulations.
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Old 01-24-2018, 03:57 AM   #7 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ashiri View Post
The Randians apparently believe in freedom, especially freedom from government and regulations imposing restrictions on what they do.

Oddly enough I also believe in freedoms, but some of those I believe in such as freedom from poisoned medicines, cholera, neo-servitude to monopolies, etc. require regulations.
Oh, the free market would sort those concerns out in no time.
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Old 01-24-2018, 04:03 AM   #8 (permalink)
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Libertarianism = Luddism for politics
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Old 01-24-2018, 04:13 AM   #9 (permalink)
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A political party mostly based on Neal Stephenson novels.
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Old 01-24-2018, 05:09 AM   #10 (permalink)
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Interesting. According to this, it started as a false-front for corporations to get people to undermine regulation for them, which I've always had a vague feeling might be the case. but wrote it off as being paranoid cynicism.

https://www.alternet.org/visions/tru...rporate-agenda
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Old 01-24-2018, 05:30 AM   #11 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beezle Warburton View Post
I'm sort of curious about the current state of it, as near as I can tell it's currently in a state of drama with leftover Tea-Party people duking it out with anarcho-capitalists for control with the occasional pedophile thrown in for lols.

I don't know if we have any LP people here on SLU, but is a relatively fair summary?
There seems to be a big overlap between libertarians and some of our trolls.
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Old 01-24-2018, 05:33 AM   #12 (permalink)
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Old 01-24-2018, 05:34 AM   #13 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kara Spengler View Post
There seems to be a big overlap between libertarians and some of our trolls.
Yes, who are on the "clueless pseudo-anarchist" end of the scale...
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Old 01-24-2018, 05:35 AM   #14 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beezle Warburton View Post
Roadways would all be privatized.
Of course if that happened you would need to either have to create a road department or everyone that used it would wind up carrying road repair stuff all the time. Do they think things like potholes would stop appearing?
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Old 01-24-2018, 05:40 AM   #15 (permalink)
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Last edited by Leslie Trihey; 01-24-2018 at 05:57 AM. Reason: Wrong May-May
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Old 01-24-2018, 05:47 AM   #16 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kara Spengler View Post
Of course if that happened you would need to either have to create a road department or everyone that used it would wind up carrying road repair stuff all the time. Do they think things like potholes would stop appearing?
The private sector would step in. *nods wisely*
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Old 01-24-2018, 06:36 AM   #17 (permalink)
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To really understand Libertarianism from the inside, as it were, you need to read some moderately well written Libertarian SF. L Neil Smith's "The Probability Broach" and Vernor Vinge's "The Ungoverned" are pretty much the peak of the genre, but a lot of other North American SF writers are pushing the same idea.

The basic idea is that technological progress is driven by the engine of raw capitalism unchained by regulation and government meddling, and the United States relative lack of regulation is the only thing keeping technology advancing. If the US collapses into the same kind of nanny state they have in Europe we'll never get our space cities and flying cars and immortality drugs.

The fact that we're looking at least another 70 years of stagnating wages, inequality, and appalling poverty in the midst of plenty... like we had at the beginning of the Industrial Revolution... is a cost worth paying if it means a geek utopia for our great great grandchildren in the 2100s.

Obviously this ignores the fact that technological innovation and profit and all that are actual things outside the US, but handwave handwave handwave.
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Old 01-24-2018, 06:49 AM   #18 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Kara Spengler View Post
Of course if that happened you would need to either have to create a road department or everyone that used it would wind up carrying road repair stuff all the time. Do they think things like potholes would stop appearing?
And who's going to ensure that the next parish's roads have to join up with your parish's ?
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Old 01-24-2018, 06:52 AM   #19 (permalink)
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And who's going to ensure that the next parish's roads have to join up with your parish's ?
The cows creating the paths.
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Old 01-24-2018, 07:37 AM   #20 (permalink)
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Old 01-24-2018, 07:39 AM   #21 (permalink)
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Of course if that happened you would need to either have to create a road department or everyone that used it would wind up carrying road repair stuff all the time. Do they think things like potholes would stop appearing?
Stupidly had this exact conversation with someone on Twitter and no shit, the answer was crowdsourcing. And no sooner was that said then about two dozen people started following me, because apparently they follow anyone who mentions crowdsourcing. It's a goddamn cult.
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Old 01-24-2018, 07:45 AM   #22 (permalink)
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Old 01-24-2018, 07:52 AM   #23 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beezle Warburton View Post
Interesting. According to this, it started as a false-front for corporations to get people to undermine regulation for them, ...
That's seems entirely too obvious.

The libertarians who've tried to 'recruit me' all seem to have one massive gaping blind spot in their passion for their liberating merit=based free market anything goes utopia.

They seem to have no ability to conceive that absent a democratically elected government, local tyrants will simply appoint themselves as the new government, with less democratically decided rules. Starting with "What's yours is mine, or we'll kill you".

Libs seem to believe that those who resort to harmful/disrespectful actions will be =individuals= that their free market/honor system/neighborhood watch can dispatch easily enough.

It's laughable.
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Old 01-24-2018, 07:56 AM   #24 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Argent Stonecutter View Post
To really understand Libertarianism from the inside, as it were, you need to read some moderately well written Libertarian SF. L Neil Smith's "The Probability Broach" and Vernor Vinge's "The Ungoverned" are pretty much the peak of the genre, but a lot of other North American SF writers are pushing the same idea.
Unfortunately. I think it was a kick they were on for a few decades.

For example, I love Heinlein's writing in general. Although our political POVs are about as far apart as you can get.
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Old 01-24-2018, 08:00 AM   #25 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Asher Bertrand View Post
Stupidly had this exact conversation with someone on Twitter and no shit, the answer was crowdsourcing. And no sooner was that said then about two dozen people started following me, because apparently they follow anyone who mentions crowdsourcing. It's a goddamn cult.
What the?

Do they ACTUALLY plan to create a gofundme for each pothole? Can you even find a less efficient way to solve that problem without delving into hilarity?
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