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Old 01-19-2018, 08:08 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Returning to the Steam Age?

So much wtf I'm not sure where to start.

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Trump has promised to revive coal by rolling back environmental regulations and moved to repeal Obama-era curbs on carbon emissions from power plants.
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-t...-idUSKBN1D14G0
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"Everybody was saying, 'Well, you won’t get any mining jobs,' we picked up 45,000 mining jobs. Well, the miners are very happy with Trump and with Pence, and we’re very proud of that," Trump said to an excited audience.
The only problem seems to be that number was nowhere close to true. In fact, since the beginning of Trump's presidency, just 1,200 coal-mining jobs have been created, according to monthly reports by the Bureau of Labor Statistics. In fact, the 1,200 coal jobs during Trump's presidency thus far are just 100 more than were created between August and December 2016 under President Obama.
Donald Trump Has Only Delivered 1,200 Coal-Mining Jobs, Despite Claiming to Have Created 45,000
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Old 01-19-2018, 08:22 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Old 01-19-2018, 08:50 PM   #3 (permalink)
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>> NOVEMBER 1, 2017

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Old 01-20-2018, 05:26 PM   #4 (permalink)
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We have coal reserves for at least 500 years. We need to build more coal plants instead of throwing millions away on solar panels and other ludicrous green initiates.

Oh, and what do we do with all that evil coal that we aren't burning?

Leave it in the ground so it doesn't contribute to "man made global warming"?

Nooooo... We sell it to China, Japan and India for pennies a ton so THEY can burn it.

*rolls eyes*
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Old 01-20-2018, 06:22 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by BilliJo Aldrin View Post
We have coal reserves for at least 500 years. We need to build more coal plants instead of throwing millions away on solar panels and other ludicrous green initiates.

Oh, and what do we do with all that evil coal that we aren't burning?

Leave it in the ground so it doesn't contribute to "man made global warming"?

Nooooo... We sell it to China, Japan and India for pennies a ton so THEY can burn it.

*rolls eyes*
According to a relative of mine who makes a considerable amount of money from knowing about such things (he was a senior executive in the UK electricity industry until he had to take very early retirement to care for his wife and young family while she struggled with cancer, and then after her death he set up his own consultancy business) if you look at it in simply business terms, anyone considering building a new power station in either Europe or the USA would, all things being equal, almost certainly opt for combined-cycle natural gas unless they were building one in an area where there was a particular geographical reason to opt for another type (typically renewable).

According to my relative, at least (though his view seems pretty mainstream, from what little I know) there's not much of a business case for investing in coal long-term, unless government is prepared to subsidise with plenty of the taxpayers' money for social reasons.

In the UK, the government expects the last coal-fired power station to close by 2025, and the few that are remaining open till then are staying open only because they receive hefty subsidies.

I see, by the way, that apparently there are two types of coal:
Quote:
The United States exports metallurgical coal and steam coal. Metallurgical coal can be used for steel production, and steam coal can be used for electricity generation. Metallurgical coal dominates U.S. coal exports.
https://www.eia.gov/energyexplained/...e=coal_imports

So I'm not sure -- because I just don't know -- whether it makes sense to use metallurgical coal in power plants.
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Old 01-20-2018, 06:24 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BilliJo Aldrin View Post
Derpystuff.
Aw, aren't you just so special

Natural gas is what the cool kids are using these days.

Last edited by Beezle Warburton; 01-20-2018 at 06:31 PM.
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Old 01-20-2018, 06:49 PM   #7 (permalink)
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BTW, Billi, I might have been politer if you'd given any indication that you'd actually read the articles rather than just leaping at an opportunity to be so edgy and "outspoken."
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Old 01-20-2018, 07:21 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BilliJo Aldrin View Post
Oh, and what do we do with all that evil coal that we aren't burning?

Leave it in the ground so it doesn't contribute to "man made global warming"?
Well... Yes!
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Old 01-20-2018, 07:35 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Use it and oil for petrochemicals that may not be easily made through other methods, rather than burning it, like idiots.

At least that's the intelligent thing to do, rather than try for a round of corporate welfare.

Good luck trying to argue that locally though. We like welfare, corporate and otherwise, as long as it's going to the 'right' people.
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Old 01-20-2018, 07:45 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Innula Zenovka View Post

I see, by the way, that apparently there are two types of coal:https://www.eia.gov/energyexplained/...e=coal_imports

So I'm not sure -- because I just don't know -- whether it makes sense to use metallurgical coal in power plants.
My bad, I thought coal was coal, but why don't we save our metallurigical coal for our own factories?
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Old 01-20-2018, 07:49 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Beezle Warburton View Post
BTW, Billi, I might have been politer if you'd given any indication that you'd actually read the articles rather than just leaping at an opportunity to be so edgy and "outspoken."
hmmmm?

If Trump is going to undo environmental restrictions on coal use that's 100% fine with me.

Man made global warming is just one big scam anyway.

Last edited by BilliJo Aldrin; 01-20-2018 at 07:53 PM. Reason: added some lines
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Old 01-20-2018, 07:51 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by BilliJo Aldrin View Post
My bad, I thought coal was coal, but why don't we save our metallurigical coal for our own factories?
We don't make stuff here much anymore, it's more profitable to sell it to the people we've outsourced to.
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Old 01-20-2018, 07:52 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Has dear leader actually looked at how much of each energy source is being used? It is the 21st century now. Less people every year want to build energy plants with a high level of pollution when there is an option for something like LNG or using a renewable resource. Not to mention companies now tend to pay attention to what will give them the bigger PR boost.
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Old 01-20-2018, 07:53 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BilliJo Aldrin View Post
My bad, I thought coal was coal, but why don't we save our metallurigical coal for our own factories?
*sigh* I guess we can add 'how do commodities work' to the list of things you do not know.
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Old 01-20-2018, 07:55 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Beezle Warburton View Post
We don't make stuff here much anymore, it's more profitable to sell it to the people we've outsourced to.
It reminds me a bit about people complaining about importing wood from Canada. Because we make more money importing Canadian trees and exporting boards to Canada than if we just used our own trees.

Just because some process involves import/export doesn't make it inherently bad.


On the Coal issue, even if Global Warming is a hoax, which its not, even if Coal were the best possible power source, which its not, there's still the part where mining coal pretty much dooms any coal miner to a horrible early death and a life of health problems.
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Old 01-20-2018, 08:00 PM   #16 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gabriell Anatra View Post
Use it and oil for petrochemicals that may not be easily made through other methods, rather than burning it, like idiots.

At least that's the intelligent thing to do, rather than try for a round of corporate welfare.

Good luck trying to argue that locally though. We like welfare, corporate and otherwise, as long as it's going to the 'right' people.
Talking about burning it, why do we subsidize the production of ethanol from corn.

Here's a general rule, if the government has to subsidize something, it must suck, because if it was any good private business would have already done it
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Old 01-20-2018, 08:06 PM   #17 (permalink)
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Man made global warming is just one big scam anyway.
::Sigh:: Every time I think I can finally retire this macro, someone comes along and gives me a reason to post it...

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Old 01-20-2018, 08:07 PM   #18 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BilliJo Aldrin View Post
Talking about burning it, why do we subsidize the production of ethanol from corn.
Look at what state grows a lot of corn and that will give you an answer. Congress wants to kill that subsidy but nobody wants to risk upsetting the state the first caucus is in, because politics there is VERY concerned about those subsidies.
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Old 01-20-2018, 08:07 PM   #19 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BilliJo Aldrin View Post
Talking about burning it, why do we subsidize the production of ethanol from corn.

Here's a general rule, if the government has to subsidize something, it must suck, because if it was any good private business would have already done it
Why the fresh hell, do you always talk in absolutes?

I swear, you probably don't have an objective bone in your body, wow.
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Old 01-20-2018, 08:17 PM   #20 (permalink)
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Look at what state grows a lot of corn and that will give you an answer. Congress wants to kill that subsidy but nobody wants to risk upsetting the state the first caucus is in, because politics there is VERY concerned about those subsidies.
Beets and cane have almost twice the yield per acre as corn. But politics.

What’s the most energy-efficient crop source for ethanol? | Grist

I'll leave the HFCS rant for another time.

And hemp is a great crop for biodiesel, but again, politics.

https://phys.org/news/2010-10-hemp-v...biodiesel.html
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Old 01-20-2018, 08:28 PM   #21 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BilliJo Aldrin View Post
Man made global warming is just one big scam anyway.
Oh, look at you, so edgy. Still didn't do more than skim the articles, did you?

But who cares if we create pollution, it'll all blow off the edges of the Earth anyways, amirite?
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Old 01-20-2018, 08:29 PM   #22 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by BilliJo Aldrin View Post

Here's a general rule, if the government has to subsidize something, it must suck, because if it was any good private business would have already done it
There are more ways to measure "good" than how profitable something is.
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Old 01-20-2018, 08:31 PM   #23 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by BilliJo Aldrin View Post
My bad, I thought coal was coal, but why don't we save our metallurigical coal for our own factories?
I dunno. Presumably because there's a greater demand for it elsewhere than in the USA, so it's in the interests of the coal producers and shareholders to export it rather than to try to sell it locally (or stockpile it).

That, I would assume, is probably because there's a greater demand for steel in those countries than in the USA, and they find it cheaper to make the steel locally than to import it.
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Old 01-20-2018, 08:32 PM   #24 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ramen Jedburgh View Post
There are more ways to measure "good" than how profitable something is.
Welcome to the Libertarian mindset.

Free Enterprise > Everything Else.

Why I switched to Green a while back.
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Old 01-20-2018, 08:37 PM   #25 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by BilliJo Aldrin View Post
Here's a general rule, if the government has to subsidize something, it must suck, because if it was any good private business would have already done it
*BZZT*

Generally a subsidy comes about because the government wants to change current behavior. Since the existing alternative has a head start on getting their 'brand' out there this is a way to even the scales a bit.
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