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Old 02-09-2018, 03:07 AM   #151 (permalink)
But it refused. <3

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Emergency aid for coal plants.

lol. socialism.
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Old 02-09-2018, 02:32 PM   #152 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Kamilah Hauptmann View Post
Seriously.

What happened to the Free Market. If they fail, its just capitalism working.
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Old 02-09-2018, 03:44 PM   #153 (permalink)
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Seriously.

What happened to the Free Market. If they fail, its just capitalism working.
There's some justification for putting plants online in an emergency, because so many things depend on electricity. But I haven't seen news reports of blackouts in Ohio recently.

The fact is the US has 2.2 times as much total generating capacity as average demand. The spare capacity both covers peak demand, and a reserve against plant outages, like the fire at a coal plant mentioned in the article. That's how we get generally reliable electric power - multiple sources across a transmission grid.
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Old 02-28-2018, 02:32 PM   #154 (permalink)
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To the complainers I say "FB this!". I don't know about the loudness; none of the windmills I've seen are anywhere near houses or other buildings; driving by them I don't hear anything.

Ugly? Well, yeah. Compared to open land (if you're one who finds beauty in all of nature) they are admittedly a glaring ugly intrusion. I consider that visual ugliness to be overridden by the beauty of their function, generating electricity without consuming natural resources.

As you pointed out they for sure don't damage crops. They are hazardous to birds, though. The local birds have or will learn to avoid them, but windmills on a migration route are an issue (the only one I know about is the Pacific Flyway). Migrating birds only see them twice a year. I personally think forbidding them within a prescribed distance of a body of water used by the flyway should help a lot. When they're not close to a known watering spot, the migrators tend to stay high enough so windmills are below them. At least, that's what I think.
Except, they did consume natural resources in the manufacturing of them.

Just wanted to point that out.

https://www.azocleantech.com/article.aspx?ArticleID=379
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Old 02-28-2018, 02:47 PM   #155 (permalink)
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Yes of course they do, but there is no ongoing burning of fuel and release of CO2 associated with renewable energy. Gas and Coal powered energy also have an initial cost in resources associated with their construction AND and ongoing need to burn ever more fuel, it's literally what they are designed to do.
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Old 02-28-2018, 02:53 PM   #156 (permalink)
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My point was that natural resources are used in manufacturing of those things that produce the renewable energy. Nothing more and nothing less. I wasn't addressing what happens AFTER the manufacturing process. Just the manufacturing process itself.
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Old 02-28-2018, 05:23 PM   #157 (permalink)
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A nuclear plant takes about 0.6 years to produce electricity equal to the energy used to construct it, and a wind turbine takes about 0.4-0.65. The latter is variable because some places are windier than others.

Concrete and steel are the main components in both kinds of power sources. Lots of concrete for the foundation of a nuclear plant, and the reactor containment building, and a big hunk of concrete at the base of a wind turbine, which keeps the wind from tipping it over. The reactor pressure vessel, all the pipes, and the turbines are mostly steel. The big column that holds up the turbine and the heavy parts of the generator sitting on top are steel.

Making the cement that holds concrete together requires baking rock at high temperature. The furnaces which do that makes a lot of CO2. Turning iron ore into iron, then steel, usually involves burning coal, which makes carbon monoxide. That steals oxygen from iron oxide (the ore, basically rust) leaving pure iron, and the monoxide turns to dioxide, so it also makes a lot of CO2.

Those plants just don't produce a lot *after* they are built, compared to coal and natural gas plants which do. Nothing is perfect in the real world of engineering.
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