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Old 01-13-2018, 11:07 PM   #1 (permalink)
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cool! Chelsea is running in MD for the senate

Chelsea Manning: Ex-army leaker to run for US senate - BBC News

Looks like I need to contact a few people up there to vote for her.
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Old 01-14-2018, 12:02 AM   #2 (permalink)
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I'm keen to see her succeed. ^_^ FSM knows, the governmental apparatus sorely needs people with some awareness of just what their policies may entail, especially outside the US. To have gone through with what she did takes huge strength of character. Would *I* have been able to do what she did? I don't know. Quite probably not, though I doubt I'd've been in a military setting to begin with.
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Old 01-14-2018, 12:57 AM   #3 (permalink)
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Quote:
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Looks like I need to contact a few people up there to vote for her.
Why? Because she's...blonde and her opponent is...bald?

Seems a bit early to start canvassing. All anyone except Manning and perhaps people close to her know is she's running as a Democrat. Shouldn't we at least find out where she stands on things like immigrant murder policy and the like before deciding to check her name?
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Old 01-14-2018, 01:37 AM   #4 (permalink)
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Why? Because she's...blonde and her opponent is...bald?
I'm unclear as to your reasoning there. Could you elaborate?

(I neglected to accommodate hair colorations and presence. Let us proceed with the common understanding that Patrick Stewart is incredible)
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Old 01-14-2018, 01:38 AM   #5 (permalink)
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Quote:
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I'm unclear as to your reasoning there. Could you elaborate?
I did elaborate. Or was it printed in invisible pixels?
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Old 01-14-2018, 07:07 AM   #6 (permalink)
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I posted this another thread when her announcement was mentioned, but I may as well say it here, too:

In her testimony at the court-martial (the parts I read, anyway) I thought she came over as very naive and, in fact, not terribly bright, at least not when it came to anything outside her immediate technical specialism.

Not at all sure she's cut out for a career in politics, though maybe I misjudge her.
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Old 01-14-2018, 07:39 AM   #7 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Porsupah Ree View Post
I'm unclear as to your reasoning there. Could you elaborate?

(I neglected to accommodate hair colorations and presence. Let us proceed with the common understanding that Patrick Stewart is incredible)
Let me help:

Just because someone does one thing good doesn't mean they will do all things good.

I enter Exhibit A:

John McCain.


He did good with a vote. I agree that he did good. But that doesn't mean I am going to become suddenly a huge McCain fan, even when I give credit where credit is deserved.

Why would I not vote McCain if he were in my state?

Because he then turned around and IMO, voted badly for a bill that is going to hurt many of the people that support him.

You don't vote for someone based on one thing. That's how we got in the mess. People voted for Trump because BENGHAZI! and EMAILS! and he SAYS IT LIKE IT IS!

That's not supposed to be how this works. Not at all. We're supposed to vote on the candidate - left/right/center/forward or diagonal that best represents our ideals and wishes for the whole of American People. Which means nobody should vote ever again based on what a person does ONCE or even TWICE. It should be based on their experience, their stance on all sorts of various things from fiscal to social interests and their past/present behavior.
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Old 01-14-2018, 08:55 AM   #8 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Free Xue View Post
Why? Because she's...blonde and her opponent is...bald?

Seems a bit early to start canvassing. All anyone except Manning and perhaps people close to her know is she's running as a Democrat. Shouldn't we at least find out where she stands on things like immigrant murder policy and the like before deciding to check her name?
Yes, more details need to be known (although we can extrapolate some things) but this is just for the primary.
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Old 01-14-2018, 09:09 AM   #9 (permalink)
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Yes, more details need to be known (although we can extrapolate some things) but this is just for the primary.
Uh, of course it's for the primary.

Her first opponent is Ben Cardin, a ~10 year incumbent Dem. That means she's running to replace another Democrat. So if I lived in her district, my personal goal, and the reason I'd want to look into the "details" first, would be to evaluate if I thought she'd be a better representative for me than the current one is.
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Old 01-14-2018, 09:13 AM   #10 (permalink)
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Uh, of course it's for the primary.

Her first opponent is Ben Cardin, a ~10 year incumbent Dem. That means she's running to replace another Democrat. So if I lived in her district, my personal goal, and the reason I'd want to look into the "details" first, would be to evaluate if I thought she'd be a better representative for me than the current one is.
Err, she is running for the senate. Her "district" is the entire state.

Assuming she is the perfect candidate though if she wins the primary one thing is for sure. The R will make things ugly.
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Old 01-14-2018, 09:22 AM   #11 (permalink)
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Err, she is running for the senate. Her "district" is the entire state.
Of course. Strangely, the point stays the same.
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Old 01-14-2018, 09:34 AM   #12 (permalink)
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Of course. Strangely, the point stays the same.
?????

My point was if you live in MD it is not a point of another district. You can do something directly about her candidacy.
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Old 01-14-2018, 09:40 AM   #13 (permalink)
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Originally your point was to convince people to vote for her while knowing little to nothing on where she stands on, well, anything. We don't even know why she's decided to run.
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Old 01-14-2018, 10:04 AM   #14 (permalink)
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Originally your point was to convince people to vote for her while knowing little to nothing on where she stands on, well, anything. We don't even know why she's decided to run.
So you have never got excited for a candidate before knowing their proposed policies? Not that those things mean anything as when was the last time a politician consulted them about what they would do in office?

What matters is their convictions and what they have done OUT of office to show you their true principles. We have already seen that with her, more than with most politicians far older.
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Old 01-14-2018, 10:30 AM   #15 (permalink)
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So you have never got excited for a candidate before knowing their proposed policies? Not that those things mean anything as when was the last time a politician consulted them about what they would do in office?
All the time. Tammy Baldwin ran for Congress in Wisconsin around the time my political eyes were widening. Every time I hear of an open gay or lesbian candidate, I get excited. I'd probably lose my shit if one popped up in this Northern hick hole.

I think you know that New Hampshire is the first state with an all female congressional delegation. However, I'd have gladly seen us kick the one Republican overboard with a more male and more progressive choice and bypass that milestone. I'd rather my political representatives suit my politics rather than my other features.

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What matters is their convictions and what they have done OUT of office to show you their true principles. We have already seen that with her, more than with most politicians far older.
Convictions are important, but that doesn't tell you how they'll vote.
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Old 01-14-2018, 10:42 AM   #16 (permalink)
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Convicted criminal runs for public office. Somehow this is cause for celebration?
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Old 01-14-2018, 11:15 AM   #17 (permalink)
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Convicted criminal runs for public office. Somehow this is cause for celebration?
Rep. John Lewis busted for 45th time

One person's criminal is another one's freedom fighter. Or something like that.
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Old 01-14-2018, 11:33 AM   #18 (permalink)
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Rep. John Lewis busted for 45th time

One person's criminal is another one's freedom fighter. Or something like that.
Yes, it was interesting how people reacted to her doing the leaks. You had some people insisting she was a criminal and others insisting what she did showed she had the courage of her convictions.
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Old 01-14-2018, 12:27 PM   #19 (permalink)
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Geez, I looked at this thread thinking it was about Chelsea Clinton-Mezvinsky. lol
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Old 01-14-2018, 12:40 PM   #20 (permalink)
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You had some people insisting she was a criminal and others insisting what she did showed she had the courage of her convictions.
She WAS a criminal. Committing a criminal act because you're acting on the courage of your convictions does not make your actions legal.

Manning is a criminal pardoned by Obama. That fact alone makes her an incredibly divisive and incendiary candidate during the primary and one who will serve as a convenient lightning rod for the Right Wing to talk about the Loony Left.

Regardless of what I think of her decision to leak secrets, there's absolutely nothing I've seen of her actions or character that inspires me to consider her a viable candidate for the Senate. But not my state, so I don't have to worry about it beyond rolling my eyes.
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Old 01-14-2018, 12:50 PM   #21 (permalink)
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Quote:
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Chelsea Manning: Ex-army leaker to run for US senate - BBC News

Looks like I need to contact a few people up there to vote for her.
My first thought was what's Handler up to now
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Old 01-14-2018, 01:07 PM   #22 (permalink)
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She WAS a criminal. Committing a criminal act because you're acting on the courage of your convictions does not make your actions legal.

Manning is a criminal pardoned by Obama. That fact alone makes her an incredibly divisive and incendiary candidate during the primary and one who will serve as a convenient lightning rod for the Right Wing to talk about the Loony Left.

Regardless of what I think of her decision to leak secrets, there's absolutely nothing I've seen of her actions or character that inspires me to consider her a viable candidate for the Senate. But not my state, so I don't have to worry about it beyond rolling my eyes.
I agree.

Political crime isn't the same as robing a bank, but no matter how much I hate the war she protested, I'm not at all sure she'll be a good representative for any causes. I think she'd help the right recruit more than she'd help the left.

I'll eat my words if she proves she's actually an incredible public speaker or something...
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Old 01-14-2018, 01:14 PM   #23 (permalink)
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I think Manning would do better to aim at a level more suited for a beginner. But the Senate campaign would highlight conversations that need to happen, which a more local contest might not do.

I think the Fox base is a lost cause and the Dems should focus on voter suppression, gerrymandering and getting out the vote. So I don't care about these mythical swing voters who are really Trumpians who won't admit it. Trying to win them over has been very destructive for the Dems.
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Old 01-14-2018, 01:28 PM   #24 (permalink)
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I figure she has no chance against a popular incumbent from her own party, but if she make a few right-winger's heads explode, that is a plus.
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Old 01-14-2018, 01:42 PM   #25 (permalink)
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I think the Fox base is a lost cause and the Dems should focus on voter suppression, gerrymandering and getting out the vote. So I don't care about these mythical swing voters who are really Trumpians who won't admit it. Trying to win them over has been very destructive for the Dems.
To my mind, the term "swing voter" is potentially misleading, since it covers both people who are persuaded to switch their vote from one party to another -- which may not be a straight switch between the two major parties, of course, but is probably as likely (if not more so) to be between a major party and one of the smaller ones -- and people who are, if they vote, probably going to vote for a particular candidate, but are undecided whether to vote at all.

The actual "swing" we see in election results is the simply the aggregate of thousands of individual decisions, and only a minority of them -- to my mind -- are likely to be a direct switch between the two main parties.

Most modern political campaigning recognises this, I think, and campaigners direct their efforts at trying to maximise their votes, by concentrating on maintaining their support from the previous election while trying to persuade people who either didn't vote last time or voted for a minor party to vote for them, and on depressing the other side's vote by trying to persuade their supporters either to vote for them or for a third party, or not to vote at all.

Certainly, I agree that Democrats will only be damaging themselves by trying to trim their policies to appeal directly to Fox News' core audience. We saw the Labour Party try something very similar while Tony Blair was in office and, when his successor Gordon Brown did not reverse the trend, we ended up with a lot of very disillusioned long-time Labour supporters and party members (like me) being unable to bring ourselves to support Labour's policies in 2010, with the result that Labour lost the election.
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