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Old 04-15-2018, 04:17 PM   #301 (permalink)
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Agreed, though stressed as only in an observational capacity though. The allegation is, after all, that Trump hired the prostitutes to pee on Obama's bed while he watched. I know that over time some have misconstrued the situation as Trump having hired them to pee on him, which there is no way in hell Donald Trump would ever do.
Unless he would. I don't know, underlying self-loathing?
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Old 04-15-2018, 04:24 PM   #302 (permalink)
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I thought a healthy person's pee was sterile ?
Sure, but do you expect Trump to know that?
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Old 04-15-2018, 04:25 PM   #303 (permalink)
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Sure, but do you expect Trump to know that?
Actually if Trump is anything like his base, which he seems to be, thats the sort of fact they wpuld rattle off to seem smart. "Survivalist" stuff is big in that group.
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Old 04-15-2018, 04:45 PM   #304 (permalink)
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Actually if Trump is anything like his base, which he seems to be, thats the sort of fact they wpuld rattle off to seem smart. "Survivalist" stuff is big in that group.
Fair enough.
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Old 04-15-2018, 04:49 PM   #305 (permalink)
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The Washington Post yesterday made the very good point that, for once, the White House's persistent playing fast and loose with the truth is really coming back to bite them.

The whole piece is worth reading but, in short, even if it's not true, Trump and the White House apparently on average come out with about 6 completely false or very misleading statements a day and have managed to turn "Fake News" into shorthand not for "news that is untrue" but "news that's either untrue or that we wish were untrue". So their dismissal of something as "lies" or "fake news" doesn't really carry much weight.

Furthermore, since "the pee tape" is a memorable phrase for a graphic image, it's come to act as a sort of shorthand for the idea people have that Russia must have some sort of "kompromat" on Trump, be it the tape as described or embarrassing details of his financial dealings, because he's so frightened of upsetting Putin too badly.
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Old 04-15-2018, 06:16 PM   #306 (permalink)
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Urine is not sterile and neither is the rest of you.
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Old 04-15-2018, 07:43 PM   #307 (permalink)
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I'm pretty sure that nothing alive is sterile unless it's been boiled to the end of its life. *
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Last edited by Dickie Swansong; 04-15-2018 at 07:46 PM. Reason: *urine may not be alive, but it comes out of living beings
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Old 04-15-2018, 10:10 PM   #308 (permalink)
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Is there some weird anti-dress code in Team Trump that says, as bad as Cheetolini's suits are, he must nevertheless remain the best-dressed of them all?

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Old 04-15-2018, 10:15 PM   #309 (permalink)
But it refused. <3

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I think it's a guy named Don thing.

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Old 04-15-2018, 10:17 PM   #310 (permalink)
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Old 04-15-2018, 10:20 PM   #311 (permalink)
But it refused. <3

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Holy shit.
Have another!



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Old 04-15-2018, 10:41 PM   #312 (permalink)
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I'm pretty sure that nothing alive is sterile unless it's been boiled to the end of its life. *
So does that make Zombies sterile?
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Old 04-15-2018, 11:19 PM   #313 (permalink)
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So does that make Zombies sterile?
Nah, but they used to be alive.
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Old 04-16-2018, 03:26 AM   #314 (permalink)
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Is using urine to clean a wound better than non sterile water ?
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Old 04-16-2018, 08:16 AM   #315 (permalink)
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President Trump Files in Court to Intervene in Michael Cohen FBI Raid Case
https://lawandcrime.com/high-profile...fbi-raid-case/

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Attorneys for President Donald Trump have filed a letter with Federal Judge Kimba M. Wood in the Southern District of New York to intervene in the ongoing investigation of his personal attorney Michael Cohen. They are seeking to put an immediate stop to the review of documents seized by the FBI...

In the letter filed Sunday evening, Trump’s attorneys assert that he is the “privilege-holder” in the attorney relationship that is in jeopardy because of the FBI raid. As such, Trump objects to the use of so-called “taint teams” to assess whether documents violate his rights. Trump is asking the judge to put a stop to the DOJ’s review of any of the seized material immediately, and to allow him the opportunity to review the documents first...

“[T]he Court should enter an order enjoining the government from proceeding with any review of the seized materials, and directing the government to provide a copy of the seized materials to Mr. Cohen so that our firm and the President may review for privilege those seized documents that relate to him,” the letter, submitted by Joanna Hendon from Spears & Imes reads. Hendon represents Trump in this matter.
The actions of a completely innocent man being hounded by a witchhunt, yes?
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Old 04-16-2018, 09:48 AM   #316 (permalink)
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This seems really stupid.
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They are seeking to put an immediate stop to the review of documents seized by the FBI.
If the request succeeds, the next thing that will happen is that the documents will be publicly leaked, no? The genie is out of the bottle.
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Old 04-16-2018, 10:33 AM   #317 (permalink)
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This seems really stupid.


If the request succeeds, the next thing that will happen is that the documents will be publicly leaked, no? The genie is out of the bottle.
I don't see how that follows. The FBI have seized a many years' worth of records which they must be keeping in a secure facility and which they're not yet supposed to have started to examine. I would imagine that, given the sensitivity of the case, the records will be kept at least as securely as Trump's tax returns.

Why would the FBI want to leak them? It would be completely illegal and might well prejudice whatever case they're trying to build against Cohen, Trump and whoever else.

As I understand it, Trump's application is really intended to delay things as much as he can, and also to give his legal team an indication of what material is now in the hands of the FBI, a question which must be preying on his mind as well as those of his children and his business contacts.

If I put aside my dislike of Trump and Cohen, and my desire to see them prosecuted, I can see that they have a very valid point that at least some -- they might say all, but certainly some -- of the material seized is likely to be protected by attorney-client privilege, and this must be respected. I can also see that it may not always be obvious on first reading whether or not a particular communication is privileged, and they have a right to make their views heard in such cases.

Seems to me that the argument is mostly about scheduling -- whether the seized materials are initially scrutinised by a Justice Department "taint team," operating independently of the FBI, or by a completely independent "special master" appointed by the court, and at what point in the proceedings do Cohen and Trump's legal teams become involved in reviewing the documents.
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Old 04-16-2018, 11:24 AM   #318 (permalink)
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Yeah, there is a process to be followed. I feel like a lot of the knee jerk emotional reactions comes from the history of these clowns. Basically, at this point, Trump and Co have proven themselves completely distrustful and completely able to shit on the law, so everyone expects any sort of puah like this, however lawful, to be in the move of potentially destroying any other evidence in the long run. They will do anything they can to see the cards in the hand against them, so they can sabotage all possible future routes.
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Old 04-16-2018, 12:34 PM   #319 (permalink)
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I think it's a guy named Don thing.

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Old 04-16-2018, 12:39 PM   #320 (permalink)
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President Trump Files in Court to Intervene in Michael Cohen FBI Raid Case
https://lawandcrime.com/high-profile...fbi-raid-case/



The actions of a completely innocent man being hounded by a witchhunt, yes?
If he is claiming executive privilege that is easy enough .... it could not possibly extend to any document before he held that position so no matter what is in those docs they are free and clear. Or is 'presidential privilege' supposed to be a get-out-of-jail-free card for your entire life before and after?
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Old 04-16-2018, 12:39 PM   #321 (permalink)
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Old 04-16-2018, 12:40 PM   #322 (permalink)
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If he is claiming executive privilege that is easy enough .... it could not possibly extend to any document before he held that position so no matter what is in those docs they are free and clear. Or is 'presidential privilege' supposed to be a get-out-of-jail-free card for your entire life before and after?
I think his claim is one of attorney-client privilege.
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Old 04-16-2018, 01:10 PM   #323 (permalink)
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I think his claim is one of attorney-client privilege.
Yeah, it's the attorney-client privilege that's in play. Which would normally, basically, remove all the documents that were seized (well no but . . .), but here the attorney is one of the criminal parties so . . . different scenario than the norm. Though I'm fairly certain the situation has come up before.

Trump's lawyers letter - https://www.scribd.com/document/3764...-RE-COHEN-RAID

"The President objects to the government's proposal to use a 'taint team' of prosecutors from the very office that is investigating this matter to conduct the initial privilege review of documents seized from the President's personal attorney, Michael D. Cohen. The cases upon which the government relies do not authorize this extraordinary measure, and, to our knowledge, no court in this circuit has ever forced a privilege-holder, over his objections, to rely on government lawyers to protect his attorney-client privilege as to materials that were seized from his own lawyer's office."

And then 'recognized for more than four centuries, the attorney-client privilege is . . .'

Here's an article about 'taint teams' on the American Bar Association website - https://www.americanbar.org/content/...thcheckdam.pdf



Of note (side note) - what happens when the DOJ, during an investigation, come across attorney-client information that had been accidentally or otherwise produced to them? They destroy the production (and/or their copies; returning the originals if they received original hard copies) and ask for a new production to be made sans privileged information. At least, that's what I've seen.

Of note2 (side note 2): personal information, like tax returns (which could be important evidence, of course, but I meant unrelated to the case tax returns; or medical documents, or any other personal information found that isn't attorney-client related; remember: if you send yourself personal documents, like your income tax forms, job applications; or use your business/government/etc. email to conduct personal business - that can and will be seized and will not, necessiarly, but 'destroyed' or 'unseen'; just a reminder if 'you' decide to email yourself (or others - though I'm specifically thinking of people who email themselves so they can have a copy of a document saved elsewhere, and use email to 'make/save' the copy) personal information), would not cause a production to be 'pulped' like above. It'd have to be actual communication between attorney and client.

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Old 04-16-2018, 01:14 PM   #324 (permalink)
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I think his claim is one of attorney-client privilege.
Which is why the Taint-team, so he doesn't have much of a leg to stand on, at least, according to some legal experts my mom made me watch this weekend [I get she likes the news and all, but there is a reason I get mine like this - otherwise I'm a worse wreck than I am now].

Basically, as I understand it, Cohen was raided because -he- is under investigation - the Taint Team's job is go through all of the documents to make sure there is nothing that would violate the attorney-client privilege, however, if there is anything that not only proves that criminal activity was in fact involved, and that it involved Twitler? Then its no longer protected.

Apparently, when these things happen with attorneys in the US? Its not -if- they will go to jail, but -when-.
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Old 04-16-2018, 01:26 PM   #325 (permalink)
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Which is why the Taint-team, so he doesn't have much of a leg to stand on, at least, according to some legal experts my mom made me watch this weekend [I get she likes the news and all, but there is a reason I get mine like this - otherwise I'm a worse wreck than I am now].

Basically, as I understand it, Cohen was raided because -he- is under investigation - the Taint Team's job is go through all of the documents to make sure there is nothing that would violate the attorney-client privilege, however, if there is anything that not only proves that criminal activity was in fact involved, and that it involved Twitler? Then its no longer protected.

Apparently, when these things happen with attorneys in the US? Its not -if- they will go to jail, but -when-.
Yeah, but the Trump team argument is that the Taint Team should not be from the same office conducting the investigation, and other stuff like that. Trump's lawyers do have a legal leg to stand on to point out the issue, and to get the judge to make the Taint Team have a specific plan, etc. etc.; and some circuits prefer/require 'a special master', an independent body, to review the documents (United States v. Regan, 281 F. Supp. 2d 795, 806 (E.D. Va.2002) (same); Black v. United States, 172 F.R.D. 511, 516 (S.D. Fla.1997) (ordering judge or judge's designee to review documents for privileged communications)).

Part of the reason to have an independent group do the first review, the taint team, is so that the defense can challenge their findings before documents reach the prosecution team. Which would be hard if the taint team itself is 'from the same office'.
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