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Old 01-12-2018, 06:04 PM   #1 (permalink)
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I've figured out the child's sh*thole distraction (yes, it's DACA)

I'm one of those who believes the child's outbursts are more intentional distraction than casual outburst. It happened during discussions with the six senators about a proposed DACA deal - and when he initially tasked congress with coming up with legislation concerning this, he didn't believe they would come up with a deal and would hence take the blame.

Republicans are too soft-hearted for him. He doesn't want legislation, he wants a dramatic visual of 800,000 children and teenagers being deported. He lives for drama, and he obviously wants a lily-white America.

He doesn't care about the children. He doesn't care that this action would likely cost the Republicans the Latino vote for several generations (just as the levee camps became the tipping point for the Republicans losing the black vote).

He is intentionally moving the goal posts and never planned to sign any such legislation, and that is why he is burying that lead with his patented childish outburst. It also serves to stall any congressional momentum on DACA, by changing Washington's and the news media's focus.

I intend to write snail mail (the most effective means of reaching representatives) to my congress critters telling them to work with Republicans to get a veto proof DACA compromise bill through the house and senate. We, as Democrats, won't like it, but Republicans are in control - something we need to deal with and not dig in our heels. That is what the child is counting on.

They also have no stake in losing the Latino vote forever after seeing hundreds of thousands of children and teens deported. Most of them can count, and they need that margin that Bush '43 was trying to build.

We have to give up ideology for now to make it work - it can always be reworked when we get a majority, and much will be moderated by the courts, the cost of the wall, implementation issues, technical details, the reality of politics, and so forth.

We can triumph over the child. Please, if you can stomach it, ask your representatives to work for a veto-proof bill to keep them in the U.S.


ETA: My opinion is open to change if presented with compelling information otherwise. If I'm wrong, let me know.
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Old 01-12-2018, 08:08 PM   #2 (permalink)
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The thing is, it wasn't on Twitter. It wasn't intentional, he didn't intend for this to be public. He thought he could say these things without repercussions.
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Old 01-12-2018, 09:18 PM   #3 (permalink)
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The thing is, it wasn't on Twitter. It wasn't intentional, he didn't intend for this to be public. He thought he could say these things without repercussions.
Remember when he claimed he could stand in Times Square and kill a man, and nobody would care?

He still believes it.
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Old 01-12-2018, 09:29 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Remember when he claimed he could stand in Times Square and kill a man, and nobody would care?

He still believes it.
As a complete aside, I kinda think that comment of his is often misinterpreted - but FWIW I haven't found many other people who share my opinion. ^^
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Old 01-12-2018, 09:43 PM   #5 (permalink)
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One day he'll say something like all the blacks should go back to Africa. Ryan, McConnell and most of the repubs will just stay silent like they are now and nothing much will happen.
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Old 01-12-2018, 11:04 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Soen Eber View Post
I'm one of those who believes the child's outbursts are more intentional He doesn't care that this action would likely cost the Republicans the Latino vote for several generations (just as the levee camps became the tipping point for the Republicans losing the black vote).
You mean any did in any significant numbers anyway. You will always get a few anomalies in any demographic group (I am sure there were some black voters when David Duke ran for office) but I got the impression the Rs were getting less minority votes as it was.
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Old 01-13-2018, 01:18 AM   #7 (permalink)
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Quote:
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Remember when he claimed he could stand in Times Square and kill a man, and nobody would care?

He still believes it.
I just hope he doesn't plan to prove it.
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Old 01-13-2018, 09:46 AM   #8 (permalink)
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The thing is, there's ALWAYS fucking something. It's like he's playing pool on a table that's all hole. When he sinks a ball you don't go "my god, he's sunk a ball".
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Old 01-13-2018, 10:57 AM   #9 (permalink)
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I'm so tired of yet another Trump-inspired outrage-of-the-day with pundits pursing their lips and solemnly intoning how this behavior is unbecoming a president.

Ya think? We all know that Trump is a senile man-baby. He will continue to poop in private and in public. We're long past the time when this should be surprising, shocking or even newsworthy.

We should be focusing our attention and outrage on those who will not remove him from office.
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Old 01-13-2018, 11:34 AM   #10 (permalink)
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I still think these outrages are partly intentional. He knows the power of disruption and keeping people off balance, and of distraction - it's part of the reason why he won.
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Old 01-13-2018, 11:39 AM   #11 (permalink)
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I still think these outrages are partly intentional. He knows the power of disruption and keeping people off balance, and of distraction - it's part of the reason why he won.
In order to deliberately, consciously make statements that are disruptive, you have to be capable of imagining how other people will react, what they consider outrageous. Trump has a VERY limited ability to do that, and not much interest in seeing things through other people's eyes.

Other people don't matter to him.

In Trump's world, only he matters. He's only interested in the things that directly affect him, and he only sees the world through his own perspective. Trump is disruptive because he's genuinely an asshole and doesn't have the self-awareness to try to hide it. As a society, we're simply unprepared to deal with that level of self-centered oblivion in a leader with authority.

If you keep overthinking why Trump acts the way he does, you're not dealing with the truly horrifying reality. We've put this country in the hands of a person who has the emotional maturity level of a three-year-old.
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Old 01-13-2018, 01:19 PM   #12 (permalink)
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I still think these outrages are partly intentional. He knows the power of disruption and keeping people off balance, and of distraction - it's part of the reason why he won.
I guess I'm somewhere between you and Beebo.

It's interesting that people often attribute intentionality to him, whether they are Trumpistanians or not. It's either, "OMG, he's savin' 'murica sayin' whut everbuddy noze is rite!" or "OMG, no one could possibly be that evil and stupid -- could they?" Either way, though, his jones got fed.

"Intentional" like "I have considered many strategies, consulted with august, learned personages, weighed their counsel and this looks to be the most productive"?

No. No way. Simply not capable.

"Intentional" like, didn't do his homework, couldn't think of anything else, blurted some idiocy and then looked back and actually thought his brain farts were BRILLIANT negotiating tactics? Yeah, okay, if that's how you mean. Seems like a sort of loose definition of "intentional", though -- my cat hurked a hairball the other day, and seemed pretty pleased with it, but I'm not quite ready to say he did it intentionally.

(If he did though ..... )

ETA: Actually, I seem to have talked myself right on over into Beebo's camp on this!
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Old 01-13-2018, 03:27 PM   #13 (permalink)
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If you keep overthinking why Trump acts the way he does, you're not dealing with the truly horrifying reality. We've put this country in the hands of a person who has the emotional maturity level of a three-year-old.
I stopped trying to figure out the shithole in chief the moment I saw one of those video compilations of his 'handshake-yanks'. That told me all I needed to know.

His one gimmick, is the cheap shot. By frequently knocking random people off balance, physically or verbally, he believes (and apparently trumpettes agree) that it makes him look "powerful".

And that's what we're dealing with. Bully theater and half a nation of foxxed-in-the-head "fuck your feelings" bigots who applaud and reward their own bullies because, well... they're got less morality than dogs.
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Old 01-13-2018, 03:38 PM   #14 (permalink)
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He's all id and there is no real control to him and his outbursts.

But that doesn't mean that his outburts aren't being used as handwaves, and that assistance to that isn't played by the media who feeds those outrages to us.

Narcissism, toaster, etc etc sure. Agreed. But they're getting a lot of use out of that toaster, and there is a pattern that has emerged (when the outrage is at a fever pitch, it's always covering for something bad)
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Old 01-13-2018, 06:38 PM   #15 (permalink)
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No, seriously, it looks like he has good timing only because ther'e always some fresh outrage from Trump, and there's always some crappy political shit going on.
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Old 01-13-2018, 07:08 PM   #16 (permalink)
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Quote:
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I still think these outrages are partly intentional. He knows the power of disruption and keeping people off balance, and of distraction - it's part of the reason why he won.
There is no evidence supporting the "deliberate distraction" theory and tonnes of evidence supporting the "egotistical manbaby, with poor impulse control and early stage dementia" theory.

You're giving Trump and almost his entire administration way too much credit.
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Old 01-13-2018, 07:53 PM   #17 (permalink)
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I think the only deliberate is on the part of the media, which is owned by like what, 5-6 companies, all very large and powerful companies, headed by very rich CEOs who benefit from things like this tax plan, at least in the short term.

If the economy completely crashes, all bets are off.
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Old 01-13-2018, 09:15 PM   #18 (permalink)
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I think the only deliberate is on the part of the media, which is owned by like what, 5-6 companies, all very large and powerful companies, headed by very rich CEOs who benefit from things like this tax plan, at least in the short term.

If the economy completely crashes, all bets are off.
I wouldn't give Trump the credit for being able to think things through that far.

But the media decides which bits we hear about.

So, yes, there's a conspiracy, it's just not Trump's.
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Old 01-13-2018, 11:49 PM   #19 (permalink)
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I just hope he doesn't plan to prove it.
Problem is, he IS proving it, with every fucked up policy he and his administration produces.

He may not be literally standing in Times Square with a gun, but he's having much the same effect.
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Old 01-13-2018, 11:58 PM   #20 (permalink)
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So, yes, there's a conspiracy, it's just not Trump's.
Exactly.

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Old 01-14-2018, 12:10 AM   #21 (permalink)
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So, yes, there's a conspiracy, it's just not Trump's.
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it's worth noting that the last time a president pissed off the IC this much there was a bit of a to-do in Dallas.
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I gotta say that Im kind of loving the IC today. This is totally their version of "Do you even lift, bro?" I keep reading and I find myself giggling at the beautiful object lesson this is (which has *nothing* to do with whether or not it's true.)

*snip*

Conclusions thus far: I don't know nor care which bits are true. The IC is fucking with him and it's glorious.
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Old 01-14-2018, 12:26 AM   #22 (permalink)
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Trump's gonna be fine, and would probably be perfectly safe should he choose to drive past Daly (?) Plaza.

There's no 7th calvary charging over the hill, folks; no magic amendment nor impeachment which will sweep in and undo all of the damage that's been done (Gorsuch, for example).

We chastize the Xtians for placing their faith that Big Daddy Jesus will make everything right.

We don't need to start placing our faith that Big Daddy Impeachment (or assasination -which would only have the effect of creating an unimainable anti-left-wing backlash) is gonna swoop down and smite our enemies and set lolipops in our hands.

No -the solid unavoidable truth is that we're fucked, and there is no quick nor easy way out of this mess and the damage is only just beginning.

It's unlikely as hell that it will be repaired in our lifetime.
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Old 01-14-2018, 05:49 PM   #23 (permalink)
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It's unlikely as hell that it will be repaired in our lifetime.
Definitely not in mine. The problems that got us here started before I was born, complete with warnings from Eisenhower on the military/industrial complex and scientists on global warming. We've been rolling our way toward disaster for over 60 years and we're nowhere near bottom yet. I'll be making an exit within the next 10 to 20 years, and I'll never know how this particular story ends (which royally pisses me off).

Trump is a symptom of rot. He's been running for president for decades and no one paid him any attention, because he was a frivolous absurdist candidate. He didn't change, the country did, and much to his discomfort (and ours) his steady PR gig turned into a full-time job. Taking him out of the job solves very little, although it might avoid an immediate nuclear war with North Korea.

But we've also been on a collision course with North Korea for decades, so really, Trump is just bumbling into cracks that were already there on the landscape.

Things will continue to get worse, not better. We haven't played out this wave yet.
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Old 01-14-2018, 06:36 PM   #24 (permalink)
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No -the solid unavoidable truth is that we're fucked, and there is no quick nor easy way out of this mess and the damage is only just beginning.

It's unlikely as hell that it will be repaired in our lifetime.
I still have hope for the revolution (that I thought was near in 1970).


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Definitely not in mine. The problems that got us here started before I was born, complete with warnings from Eisenhower on the military/industrial complex and scientists on global warming. We've been rolling our way toward disaster for over 60 years and we're nowhere near bottom yet. I'll be making an exit within the next 10 to 20 years, and I'll never know how this particular story ends (which royally pisses me off).

Trump is a symptom of rot. He's been running for president for decades and no one paid him any attention, because he was a frivolous absurdist candidate. He didn't change, the country did, and much to his discomfort (and ours) his steady PR gig turned into a full-time job. Taking him out of the job solves very little, although it might avoid an immediate nuclear war with North Korea.

But we've also been on a collision course with North Korea for decades, so really, Trump is just bumbling into cracks that were already there on the landscape.

Things will continue to get worse, not better. We haven't played out this wave yet.
Yeah, well. But can't the pendulum just swing back now please? I'm not getting any younger.
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Old 01-14-2018, 06:37 PM   #25 (permalink)
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As a complete aside, I kinda think that comment of his is often misinterpreted - but FWIW I haven't found many other people who share my opinion. ^^
Well what is your take on it?
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