Logo

Cindy Claveau · 07-03-2008, 03:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Surreal Farber

I had planned to give you Oklahoma to toy with)

Shit. I thought you were a friend!

Cindy Claveau · 07-03-2008, 03:26 PM

To settle this once and for all, I did a little research and found out why Fox is so popular:

YouTube - Fox News Babes

Eat THAT, Wolf Blitzer!

**Io Zeno** · 07-03-2008, 03:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cindy Claveau

No, his statements have questioned whether "riding in a fighter plane and getting shot down is a qualification to be president""

His Commander in Chief in Bosnia was Clinton, who never served at all. Neither has Obama.

And for the record, McCain hasn't been running around saying "Look at me I'm a hero" like some candidates have in the past. His books were matter-of-fact and even included mea culpas for things he regrets. The only ones I see making it into a big deal are the Dems and shills like Clark. Yes, he's a wingnut.

I may have to take off the gloves now, Cindy.

Clark is hardly a shill. Fuck, when the man ran for the nomination, most of our job as his supporters was convincing people he wasn't some republican Manchurian candidate. He believes what he believes and I tell you this as someone who has literally had to cover him over, politically because he says shit that politicians should never say, sometimes.

He was responding to a question. He did not come on the show and start yapping about McCain's service, even though that is how the media portrays it.

McCain is hardly some innocent victim here, he slammed Clinton, making remarks about smoking dope while he was languishing away in some POW camp, come ON.

Being the Supreme Allied Commander of NATO during it's first real conflict since it was formulated meant making life and death decisions on a daily basis that McCain never has, ever.

Surreal · 07-03-2008, 03:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cindy Claveau

Shit. I thought you were a friend!

Come on, tell me that you've never secretly harbored desires to wipe Oklahoma off the map. If so, you've never made the drive through OK City on a Saturday night with the Texas/OK U game on.

Cindy Claveau · 07-03-2008, 03:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Io Zeno

He was responding to a question. He did not come on the show and start yapping about McCain's service, even though that is how the media portrays it.

I know, Io. I yanked your chain and it worked

And that's a good point - it's the media making a big deal out of it, more so than the politicians. "No issues to talk about? Let's make something up!"

**Io Zeno** · 07-03-2008, 03:34 PM

hey, you know I have no love for the guy Wes is supporting, I just love seeing him in the middle of the shit saying "no apologies".

jacqueline trudeau · 07-03-2008, 03:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cindy Claveau

No, his statements have questioned whether "riding in a fighter plane and getting shot down is a qualification to be president""

Exactly. Is it?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cindy Claveau

His Commander in Chief in Bosnia was Clinton, who never served at all. Neither has Obama.

What has Clinton to do with this discussion? Oh! Serving in the military. Gee, I don't recall that being an issue in that campaign.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cindy Claveau

And for the record, McCain hasn't been running around saying "Look at me I'm a hero" like some candidates have in the past. His books were matter-of-fact and even included mea culpas for things he regrets.

Which record is this? Not mentioned in this ringing endorsement:

Quote:

“A proven leader, and a man of integrity,” the New York Post called John McCain in its editorial endorsement. “A naval aviator shot down over North Vietnam and held as a POW, McCain knew that freedom was his for the taking. All he had to do was denounce his country. He refused–and, as a consequence, suffered years of unrelenting torture.”

This is much closer the actual record.

Quote:

Everybody knows by now that John McCain served our country honorably in Vietnam. But a key part of McCain's Vietnam story as the press tells it is that the senator is reluctant to mention it. As Howard Kurtz of The Washington Post once wrote, "McCain doesn't talk much about those days, but he doesn't have to." In the words of The Washington Examiner's Bill Sammon, "Unlike Sen. John Kerry, McCain rarely mentions his Vietnam service without prompting" (Free Ride, Page 14). McCain himself has said the same thing: "One of the things I've never tried to do is exploit my Vietnam service to my country because it would be totally inappropriate to do," McCain once said.

But for someone who supposedly doesn't want to talk about his experience as a POW, McCain sure does bring it up a lot. The truth is that he mentions it all the time. He talks about it seriously, he jokes about it, and he uses it to his political advantage. His first campaign for Congress was built on his Vietnam heroism, including when he responded to the potentially fatal (and true) accusation of carpetbagging by saying, "[T]he place I lived longest in my life was Hanoi" (Free Ride, Page 48). His emergence on the national stage came during his keynote address at the 1996 Republican convention, a speech that concerned his captivity in Vietnam. His first TV ad in New Hampshire for the 2000 primaries was a 60-second spot featuring black-and-white still photographs and footage of McCain as a fighter pilot. Faith of My Fathers, McCain's memoir of his wartime experience, came out in 1999, conveniently timed for the start of his campaign.

For his current campaign, McCain has not been shy about invoking Vietnam. In March 2007, the campaign sent out an email marking the anniversary of McCain's release from the Hanoi Hilton, retelling the story of his captivity. On his campaign website, the featured video on the main page is called "Courageous Service," which highlights McCain's POW experience and Vietnam service. His campaign has run ads showing him as a POW. Indeed, when one looks over McCain's career, one sees that at nearly every key moment, he has reaped political benefit from talking about Vietnam.

Of course, McCain has every right to talk about his military service as much as he pleases, just as many candidates did before him. It is his history, and no one has ever disputed the facts of what he went through. But no reporter should fool him or herself into thinking that McCain is reluctant to do so.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cindy Claveau

The only ones I see making it into a big deal are the Dems and shills like Clark. Yes, he's a wingnut, come get me Io!

Uh-oh ... let me out of Io's way.

Decadent · 07-03-2008, 03:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Surreal Farber

Come on, tell me that you've never secretly harbored desires to wipe Oklahoma off the map. If so, you've never made the drive through OK City on a Saturday night with the Texas/OK U game on.

I got food poisoning in OK my first ever time there.

I concur with the desire to have them disappear.

**Io Zeno** · 07-03-2008, 03:39 PM

I don't think anyone can argue that McCain's service fills out the character and balls side of the equation.

Which frankly is something that baffled me when he started sucking up to Bush, whose minions ran a nasty smear campaign against him and his family when he first ran.

I guess he really, really wants to be President.

Cindy Claveau · 07-03-2008, 03:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Io Zeno

Which frankly is something that baffled me when he started sucking up to Bush, whose minions ran a nasty smear campaign against him and his family when he first ran.

"Y'know John, we were just joshin' y'all. Here, have some barbeeque."

Persephone Milk · 07-03-2008, 03:42 PM

I have not read this entire thread, but I did go back and find a link to the photographs presented by Media Matters. Provided these aired as shown (which I have no reason to doubt), then I agree that this is disgusting. The photographs were clearly altered to make both persons appear to be unattractive goons. If a person working for Fox did this, then Fox should own it, fire the persons responsible, and make changes to editorial procedure and chains of accountability to prevent this kind of thing in the future.

That said, I have a very hard time believing this editing was reviewed or condoned by management. This is obviously the work of some low-level fool, perhaps an intern, in the graphics design department who thought it was funny. I don't believe for a minute that Fox News has a policy to edit photographs of democrats to make them look bad. This is something you could maybe get away with one time. It is far more likely that this exposes a serious deficiency in their editorial review process, and perhaps in their hiring practices.

The buck stops at the top, and Fox should be called out for this. They play fast and lose (especially in the non-news segments) and that will bite them in ass as it has here. So hold them accountable.

But keep it in perspective too. Fox and Friends is not a news program. It's 70% jackassery, 20% fluff, and 10% "news". And remember that all kinds of media sources are being caught right now for photo manipulation. From Time Magazine's manipulation of the OJ cover, to the more recent controversies at Reuters. It's a troubling problem in this day of digital tools and the rapid pace of an almost instant news cycle.

EDITED TO ADD:

I just noticed this, from the commentary at Media Matters:

Quote:

After putting up the photos of Steinberg and Reddicliffe, Fox & Friends also featured a photograph of Steinberg's face superimposed over that of a poodle, while Reddicliffe's face was superimposed over that of the man holding the poodle's leash.

This is very telling. In an effort to make a funny piece, somebody was given license to mess with the photos, in what would be an obviously silly edit - at least to make the poodle joke. It sounds to me like, that person got carried away.

**Io Zeno** · 07-03-2008, 03:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cindy Claveau

"Y'know John, we were just joshin' y'all. Here, have some barbeeque."

You could tell how pissed he was for a while afterward.

It was only when he started to gear up his campaign that he really took the kneepads out.

I always said he might have taken that election had he run as an independent but he is really married to the Party at the end of the day.

**Envoy Costagravas** · 07-03-2008, 03:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cindy Claveau

What I find amusing - or it would be if it weren't so serious - is that neither of the candidates has yet engaged in the sort of gutter mudslinging that I see from leftwing blogs and rightwing talk shows. I honestly don't give a flying fuck if Obama's father or stepfather may have been Muslim, who cares? What counts is his character, here and now. And the same for McCain - the notion that a few wingnuts have actually been chipping at his military service makes me sick to my stomach.

**Io Zeno** · 07-03-2008, 03:50 PM

Persephone, I will link later to a documentary that rather convincingly tells of how these are in fact, management decisions, it is *policy*, this bias.

It was no different from the whole story of the CNN management sending out memos during the invasion that criticism "during a time of war" was to be kept at a minimum, and we all remember the little US flags under every anchors face on that station for a year.

That is why I always find it funny, this "liberal bias" I hear tell about.

**Io Zeno** · 07-03-2008, 03:51 PM

You want some, Costagravas? And I don't mean nookie, either.

Victoria Kemsley · 07-03-2008, 04:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Richie Waves

total fucking rubbish, it is clearly a photoshop liquify job and to say it isnt is just stupid.. if not unexpected.

bad editing doesnt yellow teeth either.. try again.

Yep Ritchie stupid I am...

Say, is Blackwater still policing the streets of New Orleans on the city/state/federal payroll?

Remember that one?

**Io Zeno** · 07-03-2008, 04:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Victoria Kemsley

Yep Ritchie stupid I am...

Say, is Blackwater still policing the streets of New Orleans on the city/state/federal payroll?

Remember that one?

Uh, yeah, they did.

Victoria Kemsley · 07-03-2008, 04:31 PM

They sent a couple helicopters to help look for survivors.

Private corporations hired them to protect private property.

At no time were they deputised as police

Please prove me wrong

**Cristiano** · 07-03-2008, 04:33 PM

Wow, Outfoxed was really enlightening. It certainly had biases of its own, but it confirms that FoxNews is a very different beast than the other channels, and how pervasive the control over its content is. A review by the NYT of the film sums up pretty much what I felt about it too - it has flaws, but is still pretty compelling:

The New York Times > Movies > Movie Review | 'Outfoxed': Spin Zones, Flag Waving and Shouting to Catch a Fox

**Envoy Costagravas** · 07-03-2008, 04:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Io Zeno

You want some, Costagravas? And I don't mean nookie, either.

Please to note, dear lusty wench, she said "a few wingnuts have actually been chipping at his military service". She didn't single out the Wes Clark issue, although that may have well been included. I could have parsed and chopped that paragraph before adding my

, but there have been other, far less intelligent attempts to discredit McCain's service, and it is those that I find beneath contempt.

To sum up: I agree with the point that up til now, the two major party candidates have been doing at least a fair job of staying somewhat civil and on-topic for their discourse, and the bulk of the foaming-at-the-mouth attempts at low blows have come from outside the campaign. And I'm all for seeing if it is even remotely possible to return the choosing of the President to a slightly higher plane of dialog. Not holding my breath, obviously.

Hope that clears things up. Sex now?

Richie Waves · 07-03-2008, 04:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Victoria Kemsley

Yep Ritchie stupid I am...

Say, is Blackwater still policing the streets of New Orleans on the city/state/federal payroll?

Remember that one?

Whats that got to do with the price of watermelons?

**Cristiano** · 07-03-2008, 04:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Victoria Kemsley

They sent a couple helicopters to help look for survivors.

Private corporations hired them to protect private property.

At no time were they deputised as police

Please prove me wrong

Overkill in New Orleans | Hurricane Katrina | AlterNet

Quote:

Heavily armed paramilitary mercenaries from the Blackwater private security firm, infamous for its work in Iraq, are openly patrolling the streets of New Orleans. Some of the mercenaries say they have been "deputized" by the Louisiana governor; indeed some are wearing gold Louisiana state law enforcement badges on their chests and Blackwater photo identification cards on their arms. They say they are on contract with the Department of Homeland Security and have been given the authority to use lethal force.

**Io Zeno** · 07-03-2008, 04:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Victoria Kemsley

They sent a couple helicopters to help look for survivors.

Private corporations hired them to protect private property.

At no time were they deputised as police

Please prove me wrong

Quote:

In an hourlong conversation I had with four Blackwater men, they characterized their work in New Orleans as "securing neighborhoods" and "confronting criminals." They all carried automatic assault weapons and had guns strapped to their legs. Their flak jackets were covered with pouches for extra ammunition.

When asked what authority they were operating under, one guy said, "We're on contract with the Department of Homeland Security." Then, pointing to one of his comrades, he said, "He was even deputized by the governor of the state of Louisiana. We can make arrests and use lethal force if we deem it necessary." The man then held up the gold Louisiana law enforcement badge he wore around his neck. Blackwater spokesperson Anne Duke also said the company has a letter from Louisiana officials authorizing its forces to carry loaded weapons.

Blackwater Down

Quote:

Shortly after the hurricane hit, Blackwater "launched a helicopter and crew with no contract, no one paying us, that went down to New Orleans," says company vice chairman Cofer Black. "We saved some 150 people that otherwise wouldn't have been saved. And, as a result of that, we've had a very positive experience." Indeed. It was only days after the company arrived that it started reeling in lucrative deals.

According to Blackwater's government contracts, obtained by The Nation, from September 8 to September 30, 2005, Blackwater was paid $409,000 for providing fourteen guards and four vehicles to "protect the temporary morgue in Baton Rouge, LA." That contract kicked off a hurricane boon for Blackwater. From September to the end of December 2005, the government paid Blackwater at least $33.3 million--well surpassing the amount of Blackwater's contract to guard Ambassador Paul Bremer when he was head of the US occupation of Iraq. And the company has likely raked in much more in the hurricane zone. Exactly how much is unclear, as attempts to get information on Blackwater's current contracts in New Orleans have been unsuccessful.

Quote:

After The Nation exposed Blackwater's operations in New Orleans this past fall [see "Blackwater Down," October 10, 2005], Schakowsky and a handful of other Congress members raised questions about the scandal. They entered the report into the Congressional Record during hearings on Katrina and cited it in letters to DHS Inspector General Richard Skinner, who then began an inquiry. In letters to Congressional offices in February, Skinner defended the Blackwater deal, asserting that it was "appropriate" for the government to contract with the company. Skinner admitted that "the ongoing cost of the contract...is clearly very high" and then quietly dropped a bombshell: "It is expected that FEMA will require guard services on a relatively long-term basis (two to five years)." Two to five years? Already most of the 330 federally contracted private guards in the hurricane zone are working for Blackwater, according to the Washington Post. Another firm, DynCorp, is also trying to grab more of the action, offering its security services for less than $700 per day per guard.

In the Black(water)

Victoria Kemsley · 07-03-2008, 04:49 PM

Sorry Cristiano

Some of the mercenaries say they have been "deputized" by the Louisiana governor

They say they are on contract with the Department of Homeland Security and have been given the authority to use lethal force

What is most disturbing is the claim of several Blackwater

Still looking for any concrete proof here

**Io Zeno** · 07-03-2008, 04:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Victoria Kemsley

Sorry Cristiano

Some of the mercenaries say they have been "deputized" by the Louisiana governor

They say they are on contract with the Department of Homeland Security and have been given the authority to use lethal force

What is most disturbing is the claim of several Blackwater

Still looking for any concrete proof here

Vic, I underlined the parts where it was stated by Blackwell or through financial records and congressional testimony, that they were, in fact, hired as guards by the government, I don't know what else I can do.

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Switch to Hybrid Mode Switch to Threaded Mode

07-03-2008, 03:34 PM	#256 (permalink)
Io Zeno Gone SLU Supporter Stoking the fires of Hell Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: New York City Posts: 16,974 My Mood: Blog Entries: 1 Awards: 1	hey, you know I have no love for the guy Wes is supporting, I just love seeing him in the middle of the shit saying "no apologies".

07-03-2008, 03:39 PM	#259 (permalink)
Io Zeno Gone SLU Supporter Stoking the fires of Hell Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: New York City Posts: 16,974 My Mood: Blog Entries: 1 Awards: 1	I don't think anyone can argue that McCain's service fills out the character and balls side of the equation. Which frankly is something that baffled me when he started sucking up to Bush, whose minions ran a nasty smear campaign against him and his family when he first ran. I guess he really, really wants to be President.

07-03-2008, 03:50 PM	#264 (permalink)
Io Zeno Gone SLU Supporter Stoking the fires of Hell Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: New York City Posts: 16,974 My Mood: Blog Entries: 1 Awards: 1	Persephone, I will link later to a documentary that rather convincingly tells of how these are in fact, management decisions, it is policy, this bias. It was no different from the whole story of the CNN management sending out memos during the invasion that criticism "during a time of war" was to be kept at a minimum, and we all remember the little US flags under every anchors face on that station for a year. That is why I always find it funny, this "liberal bias" I hear tell about.

07-03-2008, 03:51 PM	#265 (permalink)
Io Zeno Gone SLU Supporter Stoking the fires of Hell Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: New York City Posts: 16,974 My Mood: Blog Entries: 1 Awards: 1	You want some, Costagravas? And I don't mean nookie, either.

07-03-2008, 04:31 PM	#268 (permalink)
Victoria Kemsley Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 838	They sent a couple helicopters to help look for survivors. Private corporations hired them to protect private property. At no time were they deputised as police Please prove me wrong

07-03-2008, 04:49 PM	#274 (permalink)
Victoria Kemsley Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 838	Sorry Cristiano Some of the mercenaries say they have been "deputized" by the Louisiana governor They say they are on contract with the Department of Homeland Security and have been given the authority to use lethal force What is most disturbing is the claim of several Blackwater Still looking for any concrete proof here

Logo

Site Navigation