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Old 12-20-2017, 06:07 PM   #51 (permalink)
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Try raising a pack of 14 wolves. You'll definitely get a canine education doing that.

ETA: Zaida slipped her post in between. Must be getting slow in my old age. lol
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Old 12-20-2017, 06:31 PM   #52 (permalink)
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because they are small and intuitively understand that a human is dominate by shear size. This lets you get away with being very ignorant of proper discipline a bit more easily.
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You are so wrong... no wonder you used an alt.
Never, ever underestimate small dogs.
A lot of ppl do not discipline their 'toy' dogs properly because.. cute, small ooo my baby etc.
Statistics show that dogs that bite the most are..
the chihuahua
Now a small dog like that biting your ankle is not going to do much harm, but face to face with a child.. plenty of room for harm and life time scarring.. even the loss of an eye.

All dogs should be treated like dogs.
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Old 12-20-2017, 06:45 PM   #53 (permalink)
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Statistics show that dogs that bite the most are..
the chihuahua
Now a small dog like that biting your ankle is not going to do much harm, but face to face with a child.. plenty of room for harm and life time scarring.. even the loss of an eye.

All dogs should be treated like dogs.
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Old 12-20-2017, 06:57 PM   #54 (permalink)
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dog injury statistics
The statistics I showed were for bites regardless of the damage they caused.
Small dogs are often aggressive, not due to their nature, but unfortunately due to the ignorance of their owners.

https://www.theatlantic.com/science/...uahuas/500558/

Study: Chihuahuas bite vets most; Lhaso Apsos inflict worst injuries

https://pethelpful.com/dogs/10-Most-...nd-Information
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Old 12-20-2017, 07:23 PM   #55 (permalink)
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Also, the reason that pits and rotties have a bad reputation is in part to them having abusive owners [not saying this is the case, this time], so tend to snap. But yes, dogs [and cats] need structure, they really do - then again, so do children.

And the meanest dogs I've ever known were -all- chihuahuas. Evert, last one of them.

But why do I say that about Pits and Rotties? Last summer, we had a visitor, who was chasing our one indoor/outdoor cat. Sweet dog, part doberman and part rottie. He sat with me for a bit, just sitting on my foot and leaning against me with this 'Oh, hi, my name is doug, and I love you' sort of thing, while my spouse tried posting his picture on facebook to see if we could find his human, since we did not have a proper leash.

Anyway, this big, handsome derp had scars on his face. We learned from his owner that Brutus had been a bait dog, that he'd rescued. Thing is, he was sweet and fairly well trained as a normal dog. He tried wandering off and we had to fetch him back with some rope and he seemed fairly well leash trained, and he followed commands from his real owner very well too.

But if he'd decided to hold a grudge against all humans, well, who could blame the poor thing, growing up like that.

And I literally raised a pit from a baby - his mom had died leaving a litter of one week old pups. And Dusty was a very well trained dog too, because limits are important. [He was also one of the sweetest dogs I've ever owned.]
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Old 12-20-2017, 10:10 PM   #56 (permalink)
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You are so wrong... no wonder you used an alt.
What? Who's alt am I?

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Never, ever underestimate small dogs.
A lot of ppl do not discipline their 'toy' dogs properly because.. cute, small ooo my baby etc.
Statistics show that dogs that bite the most are..
the chihuahua
Now a small dog like that biting your ankle is not going to do much harm, but face to face with a child.. plenty of room for harm and life time scarring.. even the loss of an eye.

All dogs should be treated like dogs.
I stand corrected. ...though it's not like a nip from a shih tzu is really comparable to a mauling from a pit bull. For that matter, a pit bull can also give a playful nip that gets misreported as if it was a real attack. "Dog bite" reports don't really tell you much. It would be like if all rain clouds were reported as hurricanes.

EDIT: I am correcting my statement that small dogs are harmless, but I still don't seriously believe the claim that attacks from "toy" breeds are as prevalent as simple "dog bite" statistics imply. Dog bites are not equal.

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Old 12-20-2017, 10:16 PM   #57 (permalink)
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I stand corrected. ...though it's not like a nip from a shih tzu is really comparable to a mauling from a pit bull. "Dog bite" reports don't really tell you much. It would be like if all rain clouds were reported as hurricanes.
One nip, no... but if you've ever seen the damage any terrier, including a chihuahua, can do to anything if you can't stop them?

Then you really wouldn't dismiss it.
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Old 12-20-2017, 10:23 PM   #58 (permalink)
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One nip, no... but if you've ever seen the damage any terrier, including a chihuahua, can do to anything if you can't stop them?

Then you really wouldn't dismiss it.
I misspoke and didn't mean to say small dogs are inherently harmless. I apologize for the confusion. BUT, dog bite statistics are still crap. A playful nip often gets reported as the same kind of data point as a full on mauling, regardless of breed.

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Old 12-20-2017, 10:27 PM   #59 (permalink)
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The statistics I showed were for bites regardless of the damage they caused.
Small dogs are often aggressive, not due to their nature, but unfortunately due to the ignorance of their owners.

https://www.theatlantic.com/science/...uahuas/500558/

Study: Chihuahuas bite vets most; Lhaso Apsos inflict worst injuries

https://pethelpful.com/dogs/10-Most-...nd-Information
The image I posted came from the first site you linked.
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Old 12-20-2017, 10:33 PM   #60 (permalink)
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One nip, no... but if you've ever seen the damage any terrier, including a chihuahua, can do to anything if you can't stop them?

Then you really wouldn't dismiss it.
My great grandmother always had to have a Chihuahua. The first one I remember was a sweet little thing and I loved that dog to death. Then he died and my great grandmother got another one*. Mean little shit that wouldn't let anyone (not even my great grandfather at times) any where near her so they always had to shut the dog in another room when they had visitors because he would bite. And not just once. I still have scars from that little bastard.

*The first time I encountered the second Chihuahua I hadn't been told yet that is wasn't the same dog. I was only 4/5 years old at the time and didn't see the differences until it was too late.
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Old 12-20-2017, 11:03 PM   #61 (permalink)
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Apparently chihuahua breeds well with toy poodle - ours is a sweet little bugger, she just hates stuffed toys, especially that squeak - as long as she knows it's not -her's- though, its safe, or my collection would be so much stuffing and rags.
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Old 12-20-2017, 11:55 PM   #62 (permalink)
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Apparently chihuahua breeds well with toy poodle - ours is a sweet little bugger, she just hates stuffed toys, especially that squeak - as long as she knows it's not -her's- though, its safe, or my collection would be so much stuffing and rags.
They do. My grandmother had toy poodles. Father and son. Troy's mom also had several that had been show dogs or show dog rejects. The toys are far less high strung than Chihuahuas and that helps to mellow the Chihuahua out.

My cat loves dog toys that squeak. He really loves plush animals that are small enough for him to drag around yet big enough for him to hold and kick.

I wonder whose fault that was.
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Old 12-21-2017, 02:02 AM   #63 (permalink)
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What? Who's alt am I?



I stand corrected. ...though it's not like a nip from a shih tzu is really comparable to a mauling from a pit bull. For that matter, a pit bull can also give a playful nip that gets misreported as if it was a real attack. "Dog bite" reports don't really tell you much. It would be like if all rain clouds were reported as hurricanes.

EDIT: I am correcting my statement that small dogs are harmless, but I still don't seriously believe the claim that attacks from "toy" breeds are as prevalent as simple "dog bite" statistics imply. Dog bites are not equal.
Dunno but that's an awfully altish name you have there.. I apologise if you are just who you say you are.

And yes, I totally agree with you, that not all bites are equal.

Most of the bites from small dogs leave little or no damage, but my opinion is that there are way more badly behaved toy breeds who bite and snap than there are big dogs who do.

When it comes to vicious due to bad owners, small dogs are right up there at the top of the chart.

Many toy dog owners just laugh and find it endearing when their snuffles (who they are conveniently holding up at adult face height) tries to take a chomp out of Auntie Wotsits hand when she tries to pet him (the dog not the owner lol.. but sometimes even then).

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Old 12-21-2017, 03:05 AM   #64 (permalink)
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Statistics show that dogs that bite the most are.. the chihuahua - Now a small dog like that biting your ankle is not going to do much harm,
I had a chihuahua bite my ankle through a good-quality leather motorcycle boot once, it managed to get its teeth around my achilles tendon. It hurt like hell and that achilles has given me intermittent trouble for the past 50 years. NEVER TRUST A CHIHUAHUA
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Old 12-21-2017, 05:39 AM   #65 (permalink)
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Some new information was released:

Dogs went through ‘drastic lifestyle’ changes before mauling owner | WTVR.com

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her body was dismembered, and she was found completely naked except for one boot.
this link goes a bit more in depth over the scans done prior to autopsy: http://wtvr.com/2017/12/18/press-con...uling-by-dogs/
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Old 12-21-2017, 06:30 AM   #66 (permalink)
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The weather changed, and the dogs lived out "in the cold."

Blackwood said that with Stephens coming home maybe five times a week, the dogs became more isolated and only had contact with each other.

They were not fed daily.
That's called animal neglect, which is also emotionally abusive.

I've been dealing with the aftermath of that type of abuse with my latest dog. She's a high-energy dog that was chained and starved. The effects of this abuse was mitigated by the fact that she's also a very low agression breed, female and middle-aged. To our relief, she wasn't food aggressive, but it's left her high strung and anxious. When she gets the least hungry, she engages in obsessive behavior, an endless roaming and searching for things to chew and gum. Her mind obviously disengages -- she doesn't listen or process anything -- and her whole focus is on assuaging the hunger. No matter how much she's already eaten, when she gets this way we just feed her some more. Even if only emotionally, she needs to eat.

So I'm trying to imagine the effect of isolation, confinement and hunger on two young, high-energy male dogs. This really was an accident waiting to happen, and it's all on their owner. No matter how bad her personal situation, she needed to get those dogs into a stable environment. What a horrible price to pay for that fail.
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Old 12-21-2017, 07:05 AM   #67 (permalink)
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Also, the reason that pits and rotties have a bad reputation is in part to them having abusive owners [not saying this is the case, this time], so tend to snap. But yes, dogs [and cats] need structure, they really do - then again, so do children.

And the meanest dogs I've ever known were -all- chihuahuas. Evert, last one of them.
I tend not to hang around chihuahuas but, yeah, they give off a mean vibe the few time I have been around them.

Cats though. I am definitely a cat person but part of that is knowing whether or not (without growling or anything) they are communicating "cuddle?" or "stay the fuck away from me". I wound up with a few scars before I puzzled that one out.

The structure we worked out by the time I was a teen was probably typical for a family with a cat: the cat was the alpha and humans were largely the betas, the cat was generally fine with that structure. What was atypical was the family dog was at the bottom of the structure ... and thus below the cat. Which led to funny situations like a human always needing to go outside and escort our retriever in so it would have some protection from the cat.
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Old 12-21-2017, 07:06 AM   #68 (permalink)
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Even the comment 'not fed daily' doesn't make complete sense when taking into consideration she was there 5 days a week to walk them.

Yes, still a drastic change for their well being and yes, she is at fault for the neglect as is her father but I'm still not seeing this add up. Especially now given light that they found her completely nude and one boot off.

Clothes torn off? Absolutely.

And again, I don't doubt that these dogs very possibly killed her - whether maliciously or not.

But the line for this whole story seems to be written in sand and every time you look, the Investigators are changing that line. I get not wanting to release certain things to 'spare the family.' But damn.....every time they release something, my head spins and the whole story becomes even more out there in possibilities and probabilities.

They still haven't rescinded the comment that the animals broke out of their cage either (that I saw). They added that a neighbor heard a scream in the woods but ignored it and added that she was found completely nude (including under garments) and have not mentioned them being found or scattered about.

Having animals, they eat something they aren't supposed to - including clothes, they throw it up. They leave remnants. It's also possible to still be sexually assaulted with a tampon insertion which is 'partially how they determined' to rule assault out. Not saying that did happen either, btw - their logic is just baffling.

Not saying a coyote absolutely attacked her either - it's possible. And for them to compare a coyote to a 'large animal' attack is completely off the mark. Coyotes, on average are the size of a dog.

Having to deal with those damn animals on a continual basis, they are also extremely smart - will bait domestic dogs to chase them in order to get to attack and come back for their pray. They also 'get used to humans' and it's not uncommon to have them around less rural area's. Hell, I had one stand outside my door last summer in broad daylight (they are day and night animals as well) because he smelled the steak on the BBQ and was checking it out. Then the bastard casually walked across the road and up the field while my husband was trying to get his gun out. (they do try and bait our dogs in the winter too - we keep them in the barn now because of that and let the Donkey handle the goats in the smaller one).

I don't know....I might be over thinking all this but this whole story seems like they are grasping at something but even they don't know what.

(again, I'm not saying the dogs didn't kill her, I'm just saying this story does not add up)
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Old 12-21-2017, 07:16 AM   #69 (permalink)
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The first time I encountered the second Chihuahua I hadn't been told yet that is wasn't the same dog. I was only 4/5 years old at the time and didn't see the differences until it was too late.
When I had a paper route there was a German Shepard that was in the area but would run off whenever anyone got near. I went to deliver a paper and saw what I thought was him on the lawn .... it turned out it was the one owned by that family they kept roped up to the house with a nasty disposition. I outstretched my palm to it as that was how I dealt with the other one, letting it slowly get a smell of me and showing deference at the same time. I was probably more startled than anything when the hand got nipped at, fortunately it turned out to be just a bad pinch.

I did not have the excuse of being as young as you were though!
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Old 12-21-2017, 08:33 AM   #70 (permalink)
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What was atypical was the family dog was at the bottom of the structure ... and thus below the cat.


FYI, there is nothing atypical about that situation. That's pretty much the norm. lol
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Old 12-21-2017, 08:50 AM   #71 (permalink)
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My mom's dog is a weird case, they have alpha 'fights' all the time, though good natured. Then again, he's a Jack Russell, and apparently they are very alpha dogs. Our little mix is well, she's the omega, though she's not an omega personality. She is smaller than most of the cats, though.
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Old 12-21-2017, 08:53 AM   #72 (permalink)
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Jack Russells are extremely alpha. I'm looking at you, Pca.
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Old 12-21-2017, 09:24 AM   #73 (permalink)
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FYI, there is nothing atypical about that situation. That's pretty much the norm. lol
Maybe Taylor (the cat when we had the retriever) told her friends about it?
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Old 12-21-2017, 09:39 AM   #74 (permalink)
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In my experience, small dogs are often more ornery than larger breeds. It may be because owners don't discipline them as strictly since their bites won't do as much damage, but I also suspect they almost have to have more extreme reactions when they are annoyed than larger dogs do. Small breeds tend to get more excessively cuddled than larger breeds and I am betting claustrophobia while being cuddled is more of a factor for smaller breeds. Bigger breeds can more easily get up and walk away when they are done with pets/cuddle simply due to their strength, whereas a smaller dog is more likely to be held in-place. I think they (almost have to) compensate their lack of size and strength with more aggressive behavior.

For this story though, the fact that they were bigger breed inside dogs to start and she moved them to an outside kennel at her father's place with very limited attention (seriously, a high energy larger breed only being let out 5 days a week is fairly abusive in my book) suggests that the dogs had some behavior issues that made them un-desirable for indoor living. While that can happen from a whole range of bad behavior, such as not being potty trained to destructive chewing of household items, it can also be that the dogs were aggressive towards humans.

Bad behavior is typically a result of poor training, especially if she raised them from babies. If I had to guess, she didn't have the dogs' best interest in heart from the start (based on kenneling them, only letting them out 5 days a week, and not feeding them every day). She probably didn't train them much, if at all, and when they were kenneled, the training was almost non-existent. On the day of her death, it wouldn't surprise me if one (or both) of the dogs got a hold of a dead animal or something that was tasty to the dog. She tried to take it away and they attacked her as a result. Lack of being fed daily and severe boredom from being kenneled 90%+ of the week would explain why her body and clothes were thoroughly torn apart. The kennel looking like it had been broken out of could easily be due to the dogs constantly trying to escape because they were bored as fuck all week.
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Old 12-21-2017, 09:50 AM   #75 (permalink)
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For this story though, the fact that they were bigger breed inside dogs to start and she moved them to an outside kennel at her father's place with very limited attention (seriously, a high energy larger breed only being let out 5 days a week is fairly abusive in my book) suggests that the dogs had some behavior issues that made them un-desirable for indoor living.
At least one of the articles mentioned in passing that the owner was reportedly going through a bad time, which was why the dogs were moved to her father's residence. So on top of all the other abusive behavior these dogs were experiencing, there's also her unsettled emotional state. When they sense her stress, that makes them even more anxious and fearful.
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