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Old 11-29-2017, 04:24 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Korea can now hit Washington DC

And it should be remembered and noted repeatedly that it happened on Trump's watch.

https://www.cnbc.com/2017/11/28/the-...ington-dc.html

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The latest ICBM, fired during the middle of the night in North Korea, soared as high as 4,500 kilometers above Earth and landed nearly 1,000 km from its launch site, falling into the Sea of Japan. During the 50-minute test, the missile "went higher, frankly, than any previous shot they've taken," said Defense Secretary James Mattis.

If the missile had flown on a standard trajectory rather than Tuesday's lofted trajectory, it would have a range of more than 13,000 kilometers, according to David Wright, co-director of the global security program at the Union of Concerned Scientists, a non-profit advocacy group.

"Such a missile would have more than enough range to reach Washington, D.C., and in fact any part of the continental United States," Wright said in a note.
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Old 11-29-2017, 04:36 PM   #2 (permalink)
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And in case anyone is just like "meh", the fact they could theoretically reach Washington DC also means they can reach Toronto, Paris, Istanbul, Sydney...
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Old 11-29-2017, 04:55 PM   #3 (permalink)
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And in case anyone is just like "meh", the fact they could theoretically reach Washington DC also means they can reach Toronto, Paris, Istanbul, Sydney...
Mar-a-Lago too.
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Old 11-29-2017, 04:56 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Mar-a-Lago too.
Meh
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Old 11-29-2017, 05:19 PM   #5 (permalink)
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This latest test only confirms range. We still don't know if they've perfected a re-entry vehicle capable of surviving re-entry, or how accurate their missiles are.

It's troubling, to be sure, but I wouldn't be building a bomb shelter just yet.
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Old 11-29-2017, 05:43 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Old 11-29-2017, 06:50 PM   #7 (permalink)
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I agree we should not be building bomb shelters here yet. Who knows what they can actually out on top of those missiles. I do feel for the people of Japan as they have to watch these missiles fly over or drop in their pond. Xanax should be dispensed free of charge to the entire country.

The main point was that this falls flatly in Trump's lap even as he campaigned that they would NEVER be allowed to reach this point. His approach to them has been a total bust compared to the approach used by Obama and even Bush and I hope his opponent in 2020 makes him own it.
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Old 11-29-2017, 11:02 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Trump will blame the Democrats for being obstructionist if anyone blames him for falling down on the job of preventing North Korea from achieving long range nuke stage.

Also, if a nuke hit Mar-a-Lago, no big loss. Especially if they lob a nuke into Mar-a-Lago on a Friday, when Trump is busy golfing.
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Old 11-30-2017, 06:47 AM   #9 (permalink)
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/me thinks about the blast range

North Korea, you could not hit the broad side of a barn door! Yeah, I am talking to you dumbasses! Nyah! Nyah! Kim Jun Whatever is a poopyhead! Betcha can not hit my office in downtown DC this morning!
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Old 11-30-2017, 12:51 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Maybe they can try for even higher altitude if they shoot it...straight up.

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Old 11-30-2017, 01:18 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Well, after 1 pm here so I guess they were chicken. Squawk!
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Old 11-30-2017, 01:27 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cindy Claveau View Post
This latest test only confirms range. We still don't know if they've perfected a re-entry vehicle capable of surviving re-entry, or how accurate their missiles are.

It's troubling, to be sure, but I wouldn't be building a bomb shelter just yet.
I agree that we can't be certain about how efficient the missiles are, but whether they (or any country with missiles) are able to hit a target exactly or not isn't what worries me the most. If they hit Pittsburgh instead, still terrible. I think it's getting difficult to come up with reasons why a country with someone like Trump leading can have an arsenal like this - United States and weapons of mass destruction , but not N.Korea? Obviously, I have more trust in my neighbours to the south, but, you know, for argument's sake... crazy is crazy. I think we've all sort of put the danger these weapons represent at the back of our minds (compared to cold war fears) but the danger hasn't lessened.
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Old 11-30-2017, 04:07 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Developing a working nuclear arsenal is probably the most rational and sensible thing Kim Jong Un could do. It seems to be the only real deterrent for when USA is deciding which nation to invade next.
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Old 11-30-2017, 11:30 PM   #14 (permalink)
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To be fair, this was going to happen regardless of who made it into office. There is no policy and has been no policy that has been effective at stopping North Korea, for decades. You can't pin their having nukes on Bush II, he didn't give them the formulas. And you can't blame them figuring out the physics and jet fuel composition on Trump, his dumb ass certainly didn't help them.
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Old 12-02-2017, 04:33 AM   #15 (permalink)
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Developing a working nuclear arsenal is probably the most rational and sensible thing Kim Jong Un could do. It seems to be the only real deterrent for when USA is deciding which nation to invade next.
Been saying for years that the best way to ensure the US doesn't play the regime change game on your ass is to get some nukes. And I usually say it to dummies who are like "WHY WOULD THEY WANT NUKES?"

Like. Duh.

EDIT: It's not like nukes are even that hard to build. You could probably build a gun type nuke in a machine shop near you. Implosion triggers are a bit trickier (And give better yield) but I'm pretty sure any industrialized nation could build one. The tricksy bits are getting the materials. From my understanding the NK tests were about 100-160KT which implies an implosion device (Gun type devices are kinda shitty) but they aren't up to H-Bombs yet (Our most powerful that I know of is 25,000 KT)

Welp there's some nuclear knowledge for ya.

Last edited by Jorus Xi; 12-02-2017 at 04:41 AM.
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Old 12-02-2017, 04:41 AM   #16 (permalink)
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Also never read "Command and Control" it will give you the heebie jeebies.
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Old 12-02-2017, 07:44 AM   #17 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Cristalle View Post
To be fair, this was going to happen regardless of who made it into office. There is no policy and has been no policy that has been effective at stopping North Korea, for decades. You can't pin their having nukes on Bush II, he didn't give them the formulas. And you can't blame them figuring out the physics and jet fuel composition on Trump, his dumb ass certainly didn't help them.
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Old 12-02-2017, 07:52 AM   #18 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Jorus Xi View Post
It's not like nukes are even that hard to build. You could probably build a gun type nuke in a machine shop near you. Implosion triggers are a bit trickier (And give better yield) but I'm pretty sure any industrialized nation could build one. The tricksy bits are getting the materials. From my understanding the NK tests were about 100-160KT which implies an implosion device (Gun type devices are kinda shitty) but they aren't up to H-Bombs yet (Our most powerful that I know of is 25,000 KT)

Welp there's some nuclear knowledge for ya.
Yes, you could build a simple gen 1 nuclear bomb easy, you do not even need to look up old issues of popular science. Getting the fissionable material is the hard part, even an engineer could tell you how to get a bunch of it all in one place really fast. (Sorry to any engineers, 'even an engineer' is a common joke among physics types.)

Since the primary purpose is for terror though I would suggest a dirty bomb. Not much more know-how than a regular bomb since you just surround it with any random stuff that is irradiated.
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Old 12-02-2017, 08:09 AM   #19 (permalink)
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While there seems to be a lot of discounting NK's nuclear weapon capabilities, they have been advancing in leaps and bounds...and one has to wonder how they are doing that.
It won't be long before they have tested and proven they have real capability to deliver.
Eventually we are either going to have to accept nuclear proliferation and diplomatically point out it's uselessness in any real world scenario...there is no 'winning' in a nuclear war...or we are going to have to draw a line in the sand against any country that isn't already armed, and who tries to arm themselves with the nuclear option. But if the second option is the route we go, then we need to act upon it before they reach full capability.
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Old 12-02-2017, 01:21 PM   #20 (permalink)
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I still don't understand what NK good to gain.
Kim, like 45, lives in his own world, and may believe all sorts of arrant nonsense, but did he really think this country wouldn't be obliterated if he started the apocalypse? Or does he really not care? Does he really want the world to burn if he can't rule it? All his people to die or suffer horribly?

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Old 12-02-2017, 03:16 PM   #21 (permalink)
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I still don't understand what NK good to gain.
I think the better question is, what does NK have to lose? The obvious answers like "the health and welfare of its citizens" are wrong because the Kim dynasty demonstrably does not care about that; the people of North Korea are expected to cheerfully suffer the consequences of the regime's pride.
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Old 12-02-2017, 07:27 PM   #22 (permalink)
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While there seems to be a lot of discounting NK's nuclear weapon capabilities, they have been advancing in leaps and bounds...and one has to wonder how they are doing that.
They have all sorts of advantages. First of all they have whatever they get from China. Second of all they do not have to do much of the primary research .... they already know roughly what the end result has proven to be so they just have to work out how to get to that result. Aside from details like maybe reentry they already have the tech for "gen 0" ... a dirty bomb. Building a gen 1 nuclear device is not complex in theory, you just need to figure out the engineering. Beyond the 1st generation they have to think a bit, but knowing the answers (yields and the like) gives them some big clues.
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Old 12-02-2017, 09:48 PM   #23 (permalink)
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Am I the only one who read the title of this thread and wondered how good their aim is - like, can they zero in on 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue in DC?
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Old 12-02-2017, 09:52 PM   #24 (permalink)
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Am I the only one who read the title of this thread and wondered how good their aim is - like, can they zero in on 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue in DC?
I think there used to be a saying among some at US Strategic Command that close is good enough.
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Old 12-02-2017, 09:52 PM   #25 (permalink)
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I still don't understand what NK good to gain.
Kim, like 45, lives in his own world, and may believe all sorts of arrant nonsense, but did he really think this country wouldn't be obliterated if he started the apocalypse? Or does he really not care? Does he really want the world to burn if he can't rule it? All his people to die or suffer horribly?
Nukes are an insurance policy against preventive war. He's counting on us to not be so stupid as to try anything because he already has the means to hit key allies in the area. He's not that far away from hitting Washington, which is his ultimate security.
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