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Old 11-16-2017, 12:14 PM   #1 (permalink)
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It's Al Franken's Turn

Senator Al Franken Kissed and Groped Me Without My Consent, And There’s Nothing Funny About It

If you look at her Twitter post, lots of people demanding Franken to resign immediately.

Lots of people comparing him to Moore, though Franken (as far as anyone knows) isn't a pedophile.
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Old 11-16-2017, 12:24 PM   #2 (permalink)
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‘Al Franken kissed and groped me without my consent,’ broadcaster Leeann Tweeden says
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Old 11-16-2017, 12:35 PM   #3 (permalink)
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This is less equivocating than Louis CK's screed:

Quote:
Franken responded in a press statement Thursday.

“I certainly don’t remember the rehearsal for the skit in the same way, but I send my sincerest apologies to Leeann,” he said. “As to the photo, it was clearly intended to be funny but wasn’t. I shouldn’t have done it.”
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Old 11-16-2017, 12:41 PM   #4 (permalink)
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The picture of him allegedly "groping" her seems a little far fetched. His fingers were barely touching her.
Was it tasteless? definitely, but I don't think it would be considered groping. Groping in my mind is full hand contact and rubbing on the body. This looks like a posed for picture....the problem is that he posed and there was no consent for the pose.

I'm still disgusted by it though as well as the kissing incident.
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Old 11-16-2017, 01:42 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Old 11-16-2017, 03:22 PM   #6 (permalink)
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I dunno. We have a photo of... something, which Franken admits wasn't as funny as intended, and an accusation of what would be a totally inappropriate "rehearsal" kiss if it happened as Tweeden claims.

In the past Franken conspicuously applauded the courage of sexual assault victims who come forward with accusations, and expressed disappointment that others stay silent when accusers are doubted.

With that, Franken made himself a prime target. If anyone were to be falsely accused, it would be Franken.

And to me, this particular accuser comes with credibility issues as a pre-existing condition. I just can't help but doubt the veracity on any subject of anybody who supported birtherism, as Tweeden did on a 2011 Hannity show.

It makes me uncomfortable that so many Democrats have reflexively assumed the worst about the photo, interpreted his response as an admission of guilt, and dog-piled to demand Franken "resign immediately."

I'd rather hear out the Senate Ethics Committee investigation first.
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Old 11-16-2017, 04:07 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Qie Niangao View Post
I dunno. We have a photo of... something, which Franken admits wasn't as funny as intended, and an accusation of what would be a totally inappropriate "rehearsal" kiss if it happened as Tweeden claims.

In the past Franken conspicuously applauded the courage of sexual assault victims who come forward with accusations, and expressed disappointment that others stay silent when accusers are doubted.

With that, Franken made himself a prime target. If anyone were to be falsely accused, it would be Franken.

And to me, this particular accuser comes with credibility issues as a pre-existing condition. I just can't help but doubt the veracity on any subject of anybody who supported birtherism, as Tweeden did on a 2011 Hannity show.

It makes me uncomfortable that so many Democrats have reflexively assumed the worst about the photo, interpreted his response as an admission of guilt, and dog-piled to demand Franken "resign immediately."

I'd rather hear out the Senate Ethics Committee investigation first.
To me, this feels like Fox making shit up to take the spotlight off of Moore.
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Old 11-16-2017, 04:18 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Qie Niangao View Post
I dunno. We have a photo of... something, which Franken admits wasn't as funny as intended, and an accusation of what would be a totally inappropriate "rehearsal" kiss if it happened as Tweeden claims.

In the past Franken conspicuously applauded the courage of sexual assault victims who come forward with accusations, and expressed disappointment that others stay silent when accusers are doubted.

With that, Franken made himself a prime target. If anyone were to be falsely accused, it would be Franken.

And to me, this particular accuser comes with credibility issues as a pre-existing condition. I just can't help but doubt the veracity on any subject of anybody who supported birtherism, as Tweeden did on a 2011 Hannity show.

It makes me uncomfortable that so many Democrats have reflexively assumed the worst about the photo, interpreted his response as an admission of guilt, and dog-piled to demand Franken "resign immediately."

I'd rather hear out the Senate Ethics Committee investigation first.


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Old 11-16-2017, 04:28 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Read his second, longer statement.

This epitomizes the difference between the good guys and the bad guys for me. He took responsibility, he unconditionally apologized and he pledged to make amends. I applaud him.

I also read just a moment ago that she accepted his apology on her show.

That's how this is supposed to work folks. He screwed up, he acknowledged it and owned it.
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Old 11-16-2017, 04:46 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Yes I read all of it, thank you. I also know she accepted his apology. I agree that that's how it probably should end.

What I have trouble with is what I bolded. It's referring to the picture as ''of ...something.'' As if the whole thing is blown out of proportion. Big deal, someone pretended to molest you while you were sleeping and took a picture to show everyone - get over it -and as for the rest it's her word against his, right? Why do some seem to only speak up when there is a chance that a man is being falsely accused, but go utterly quiet when it comes to showing concern for all the women who have come out this past month?
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Old 11-16-2017, 04:51 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Lucifer Baphomet View Post
To me, this feels like Fox making shit up to take the spotlight off of Moore.
This kind of touches on what I mentioned in the George Takei thread. It probably happened, but someone feels like they are spinning it as more and pushing it up to help "discredit" some liberal figurehead and distract from actual issues.
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Old 11-16-2017, 06:16 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Isabeau Imako View Post
Yes I read all of it, thank you. I also know she accepted his apology. I agree that that's how it probably should end.

What I have trouble with is what I bolded. It's referring to the picture as ''of ...something.'' As if the whole thing is blown out of proportion. Big deal, someone pretended to molest you while you were sleeping and took a picture to show everyone - get over it -and as for the rest it's her word against his, right? Why do some seem to only speak up when there is a chance that a man is being falsely accused, but go utterly quiet when it comes to showing concern for all the women who have come out this past month?
The fact that the picture is being shown in articles discussing it really bothers me.
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Old 11-16-2017, 06:39 PM   #13 (permalink)
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What Should Democrats Do About Al Franken?
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Old 11-16-2017, 06:42 PM   #14 (permalink)
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I keep wanting to say "If it were true..." and "everyone is allowed to mess up once", but those words just won't get past my hypocrisy filter.

He's a decent guy whom I greatly respect, but I'm having a hard time giving him a pass. I don't know what he should do.
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Old 11-16-2017, 07:00 PM   #15 (permalink)
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I remember a picture like that taken at a party I was at. Friend A put his hands near--but NOT on--friend B's ass as if he was warming then by a fire. No actual touching or any advance, for that matter, took place and B thought it was pretty funny when she saw the picture.
So did Franken actually touch his accuser? His apology leaves that a bit open to question, but he apologized regardless and calls for an investigation himself.
There is, apparently, a second accuser, but a look at her Twitter account raises definite questions about her notices and veracity, IMHO.
Even if it's all true, it doesn't come closer to Moore or Trump.
And that, I notice, is the general tend of the Dem/lib tweets; abusers should be investigated regardless of party.
So why no Rs taking that tack?

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Old 11-16-2017, 07:16 PM   #16 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LoriClaremont View Post
Read his second, longer statement.

This epitomizes the difference between the good guys and the bad guys for me. He took responsibility, he unconditionally apologized and he pledged to make amends. I applaud him.

I also read just a moment ago that she accepted his apology on her show.

That's how this is supposed to work folks. He screwed up, he acknowledged it and owned it.
That's because he's a fucking adult.

Unlike our president. Or Roy Moore. Or any of the other douche canoes being accused of sexual harassment/assault and giving out phony apologies.

As far as the timing of this, John Oliver talked about methods of distraction on Sunday.

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Old 11-16-2017, 07:25 PM   #17 (permalink)
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By the way, here's Franken's full apology:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Al Franken
The first thing I want to do is apologize: to Leeann, to everyone else who was part of that tour, to everyone who has worked for me, to everyone I represent, and to everyone who counts on me to be an ally and supporter and champion of women.



There’s more I want to say, but the first and most important thing—and if it’s the only thing you care to hear, that’s fine—is: I’m sorry.





I respect women. I don’t respect men who don’t. And the fact that my own actions have given people a good reason to doubt that makes me feel ashamed.



But I want to say something else, too. Over the last few months, all of us—including and especially men who respect women—have been forced to take a good, hard look at our own actions and think (perhaps, shamefully, for the first time) about how those actions have affected women.



For instance, that picture. I don’t know what was in my head when I took that picture, and it doesn’t matter. There’s no excuse. I look at it now and I feel disgusted with myself. It isn’t funny. It’s completely inappropriate. It’s obvious how Leeann would feel violated by that picture. And, what’s more, I can see how millions of other women would feel violated by it—women who have had similar experiences in their own lives, women who fear having those experiences, women who look up to me, women who have counted on me.



Coming from the world of comedy, I’ve told and written a lot of jokes that I once thought were funny but later came to realize were just plain offensive. But the intentions behind my actions aren’t the point at all. It’s the impact these jokes had on others that matters. And I’m sorry it’s taken me so long to come to terms with that.
While I don’t remember the rehearsal for the skit as Leeann does, I understand why we need to listen to and believe women’s experiences.

I am asking that an ethics investigation be undertaken, and I will gladly cooperate.
And the truth is, what people think of me in light of this is far less important than what people think of women who continue to come forward to tell their stories. They deserve to be heard, and believed. And they deserve to know that I am their ally and supporter. I have let them down and am committed to making it up to them.”
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Old 11-16-2017, 07:27 PM   #18 (permalink)
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I am disappointed in Franken for taking a tasteless 'comedy' photo. It's not in the same league of tasteless as something like "Jackass", but he should have known better. He then took responsibility, gave a full apology which was then accepted by the accuser. He called for his own conduct to be investigated. Which it should be.

On the other side, we have Moore, a lying accused pedophile who will not take responsibility despite a lifetime of evidence and witnesses. We have another unrepentant serial sexual predator for a president. We have whatever the current republican sex scandal of the week is, involving some innocent old white guy forced to molest underage gay prostitutes in motels because of Hillery's emails.

Both of these things are bad. One of them is however significantly worse than the other.
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Old 11-16-2017, 09:43 PM   #19 (permalink)
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Yes I read all of it, thank you. I also know she accepted his apology. I agree that that's how it probably should end.

What I have trouble with is what I bolded. It's referring to the picture as ''of ...something.'' As if the whole thing is blown out of proportion. Big deal, someone pretended to molest you while you were sleeping and took a picture to show everyone - get over it -and as for the rest it's her word against his, right? Why do some seem to only speak up when there is a chance that a man is being falsely accused, but go utterly quiet when it comes to showing concern for all the women who have come out this past month?
It's true that I haven't posted here in months. It was the weirdness of this story that drew me to check-in on this forum, to see if the local view matched what was scrolling past my Twitter timeline.

And it's also true that I had nothing particular to say before about "all the women who have come out this past month" and before, because I had no pressing doubts about their claims. But this one feels very different to me. For example, I just can't get past the fact that Roger Stone was posting about how it was "Franken's time in the barrel" hours before Tweeden's claims were public.

If I thought it were merely "blown out of proportion" I'd not bother to post. Rather, I suspect somebody's intentions (presumably not the accuser's) may be much less innocent.
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Old 11-16-2017, 10:42 PM   #20 (permalink)
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She did a 1/2 hour interview with Jake Tapper on CNN. She comes across as a very forceful and thoughtful speaker imo.

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Old 11-16-2017, 10:52 PM   #21 (permalink)
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She did a 1/2 hour interview with Jake Tapper on CNN. She comes across as a very forceful and thoughtful speaker imo.
And she said she accepted Franken's apology.

In my view, the kind of shenanigans we've seen over the last 3 or 4 generations are now officially over. Every man who values his reputation, his integrity, his career and his family needs to reconsider his attitudes toward women. That includes trans women. The casual dismissal and permissive objectification are over. You've had your day, males, and now it's time to really level the field. It's not a "playing field". It's just a field.

* Those honorable males who have always demonstrated respect toward the other gender have nothing to worry about. Thank you for keeping your thoughts and hands to yourself.
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Old 11-16-2017, 10:59 PM   #22 (permalink)
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Meanwhile the right-wing trolls are insisting that Moore is innocent because he hasn't owned up, and Franken is guilty because he apologized.
And 45? Well, I'll let his tweet speak for itself (screenshot in case he corrects the spelling of deletes)

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Old 11-17-2017, 06:38 AM   #23 (permalink)
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The picture of him allegedly "groping" her seems a little far fetched. His fingers were barely touching her.
Was it tasteless? definitely, but I don't think it would be considered groping. Groping in my mind is full hand contact and rubbing on the body. This looks like a posed for picture....the problem is that he posed and there was no consent for the pose.

I'm still disgusted by it though as well as the kissing incident.
Agreed, it would take a better analysis than me glancing at it while blurry eyed but it looks like he may even not have touched her but came close and made it look like he was touching. Not that that matters, in no possible world was it in good taste. The difference is people like Moore deal in technicalities and Franken perception while letting others decide how it came across.
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Old 11-17-2017, 10:16 AM   #24 (permalink)
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I keep wanting to say "If it were true..." and "everyone is allowed to mess up once", but those words just won't get past my hypocrisy filter.

He's a decent guy whom I greatly respect, but I'm having a hard time giving him a pass. I don't know what he should do.
He should do exactly what he did, he accepted responsibility for his behavior and apologized to the person he hurt. He did that. She has accepted his apology.

Now the question will be, can the general public accept his apology and go forth? Personally, I find the photo to be mischievous and in bad taste but not horribly so. It is his forceful attempt at a kiss that I find to be appalling and Tweeden should have kicked him in the nuts and told him that they should put that part in their skit. I don't think this will ultimately change anyone's perception of him or his work as a Senator. If you liked him before, you probably still will. If you didn't like him before, you probably still won't.
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Old 11-17-2017, 10:34 AM   #25 (permalink)
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I think that this is an attempt on the Right's part to get rid of democrats and progressives because its beginning to look like Jones might end up Alabama's next senator - which would get rid of one more vote to sway to keep things from fucking -us- over.

Also, I've always been a one accusation, grain of salt; two or more, start really looking sort of person. Because it never seems to be an isolated case, does it?

And if anyone here or anywhere else can say they have never fucked up or done something tasteless once in their lives? Well, obviously they are holy, at which point, cure my diabetes, please.
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