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Old 11-17-2017, 11:47 AM   #26 (permalink)
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Fuck this shit all to hell.

I'm pissed off at Franken, like I'm pissed off at any male whose sense of entitlement led him to stick his tongue where it didn't belong, or grab a pussy he had no business being near, or masturbate in front of anyone who wasn't into that, or menace a girl or teenager who deserved to be free of him. Fuck them all. They all deserve to be held accountable for what they did. All of them. I don't care what party they belong to.

What the fuck, Al? You talked such a good game. And you did a lot of good things. Why was it so hard to walk the walk? I'm not saying he should stay or go at this point. Yeah, I get that you apologized. Good for you. That's - literally - the least you could do. You're not a hero for apologizing after forcing yourself on someone.

And fellow Dems downtalking this - what the hell? Integrity means holding everyone to the same standard, not letting your friends off easy. That kind of behavior is what I expect from the other guys. I don't want to become what I hate. I don't want to become so enamored of winning that I give up what I believe in. If we can't win on our ideals, maybe we have no business winning. But I believe what we stand for IS winnable. So let the people who fall short fall to the wayside if they must. Otherwise, we become just like them - willing to put up Trumps and Arpaios and Moores just to win. And I don't want that.

Yeah, I get it may have been a set up, a play at a political opportune moment. But guess who gave them the ammunition? Franken did it himself. It's a self-inflicted wound, the stupidest kind of injury of all. The kind that never had to happen.
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Old 11-17-2017, 12:03 PM   #27 (permalink)
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Yeah, I get that you apologized. Good for you. That's - literally - the least you could do. You're not a hero for apologizing after forcing yourself on someone.
It is not just that he apologized but that it was accepted. The victim is in the best place to judge him and he let that play out. Including his asking for an ethics investigation looking into what he did so he is very much not abusing his power, which is what these things are usually about.
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Old 11-17-2017, 12:13 PM   #28 (permalink)
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Not that it is in any way an excuse, at least for the more personally invasive actions, but I do think it bears noting that this happened (some parts need "allegedly" added to that ...) two years before he was elected. He was, at the time, a comedian -- not a US Senator.
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Old 11-17-2017, 01:41 PM   #29 (permalink)
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Wait. What?

A comedian turned Senator?

Well... they put an actor in the White House so I suppose it was only a matter of time. I wonder what will be next.

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Old 11-17-2017, 02:29 PM   #30 (permalink)
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Wait. What?

A comedian turned Senator?

Well... they put an actor in the White House so I suppose it was only a matter of time. I wonder what will be next.

How about *cracks up laughing, can barely get it out* A CHEESY, FAKE-TANNED REALITY TV SHOW STAR/FAKE BILLIONAIRE?

Yeah, right, Casey, like THAT would ever happen. Gimme a break.



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Old 11-17-2017, 02:42 PM   #31 (permalink)
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This was maybe overlooked by some of you. I think it's worth a peek.

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Originally Posted by Soen Eber View Post
I keep wanting to say "If it were true..." and "everyone is allowed to mess up once", but those words just won't get past my hypocrisy filter.

He's a decent guy whom I greatly respect, but I'm having a hard time giving him a pass. I don't know what he should do.
You don't have to stop thinking he's a decent guy. People do stupid things, but people change. Not all people become wise as they grow older, learn from their past behaviour, but many do. I appreciated what Sarah Silverman wrote about how conflicted she was about Louis CK.

Sarah Silverman on Louis CK: 'Can you love someone who did bad things?' - The Guardian
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Old 11-17-2017, 02:46 PM   #32 (permalink)
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I think that this is an attempt on the Right's part to get rid of democrats and progressives because its beginning to look like Jones might end up Alabama's next senator - which would get rid of one more vote to sway to keep things from fucking -us- over.

Also, I've always been a one accusation, grain of salt; two or more, start really looking sort of person. Because it never seems to be an isolated case, does it?

And if anyone here or anywhere else can say they have never fucked up or done something tasteless once in their lives? Well, obviously they are holy, at which point, cure my diabetes, please.
Pointing out problematic behaviour doesn't mean everyone is accusing him of being a monster who doesn't deserve to be forgiven. If every time we bring up something gross or problematic we are told to relax, you aren't perfect either, I'm not sure exactly how things will change. Should we only speak up when we are able to get 10 women together with similar stories? Only when it concerns someone we already have little esteem for? Do we have to always make comparisons to worst behaviour and more criminal people (Moore Weinstein) as in ''well, it isn't as bad as so-and-so.''

This forum is hardly filled with Republicans, so why are we trying to justify that he at least didn't go as far as Trump, etc. One can both find what he did disrespectful and ugly AND believe the sincerity in his apology based on his many ''good'' actions and words in the past. I'm sure there is some people in the Right who are making this political - are we surprised? So what. Everything they have done and said this past year has been disgusting in every way. I just don't think we should react in the same manner (No you!) by making it political. The behaviour was wrong, he apologised for it (while many tried to downplay it as not as bad and no big deal compared to yadayada). I expect better and more from anyone on the left of the Trump squad because that is why I respect them more. I'm sorry if I'm rattling on, but really, saying you think what he did is wrong doesn't mean you think he should be drawn and quartered. Should I keep my mouth shut if someone is demeaning towards me because it isn't the absolute worst thing someone could do, or because I myself have done stupid things too?
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Old 11-17-2017, 03:37 PM   #33 (permalink)
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Is anyone really trying to justify it, though?
Or are we just revolted that Rump and Moore get a pass from the "right" while Franken is assumed to be guilty?
Why would the Democrat's accuser be telling the truth but all the accusers of Republicans at lying, paid, or both?
And how did Hannity know in advance, anyway?

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Old 11-17-2017, 03:53 PM   #34 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Casey Pelous View Post
How about *cracks up laughing, can barely get it out* A CHEESY, FAKE-TANNED REALITY TV SHOW STAR/FAKE BILLIONAIRE?

Yeah, right, Casey, like THAT would ever happen. Gimme a break.



Oh. You mean the other actor they put in the White House. I was thinking of Reagan.
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Old 11-17-2017, 03:56 PM   #35 (permalink)
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It is not just that he apologized but that it was accepted. The victim is in the best place to judge him and he let that play out.
Very much this.

Unless others come forward, accepting the apology closes this matter for me, but only because the accuser was an adult at the time.

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Old 11-17-2017, 04:12 PM   #36 (permalink)
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Is anyone really trying to justify it, though?
Or are we just revolted that Rump and Moore get a pass from the "right" while Franken is assumed to be guilty?
Why would the Democrat's accuser be telling the truth but all the accusers of Republicans at lying, paid, or both?
And how did Hannity know in advance, anyway?

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Maybe you're right and this thread is more about how the Republicans are hypocrites, and about how Fox news commentators twist everything. Maybe I'm focusing on the wrong part.
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Old 11-17-2017, 05:37 PM   #37 (permalink)
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Thread about that Al Franken photo, lots of replies, I lack the technical skills to follow or verify. Very interesting.

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Old 11-17-2017, 05:54 PM   #38 (permalink)
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Thread about that Al Franken photo, lots of replies, I lack the technical skills to follow or verify. Very interesting.

https://twitter.com/DipswitchDan/sta...13204504334336
Eh.... EXIF is pretty easy to modify and strip out even.
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Old 11-17-2017, 09:47 PM   #39 (permalink)
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Meanwhile the right-wing trolls are insisting that Moore is innocent because he hasn't owned up, and Franken is guilty because he apologized.
And 45? Well, I'll let his tweet speak for itself (screenshot in case he corrects the spelling of deletes)
Hey, Trump: You, who got caught bragging about forcing yourself on women due to your celebrity status and "grab[bing] 'em by the pussy", then dismissing it as normal locker room banter: Go fuck yourself with a rusty screwdriver! You have NO room or right to judge anyone else, especially one who has owned up and apologized and stands ready to accept the consequences!
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Old 11-17-2017, 10:03 PM   #40 (permalink)
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Eh.... EXIF is pretty easy to modify and strip out even.
And, that assumes the photo even started off as digital and not a scanned image.
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Old 11-17-2017, 10:19 PM   #41 (permalink)
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Eh.... EXIF is pretty easy to modify and strip out even.
I thought you wrote Uzif for a moment.
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Old 11-17-2017, 10:49 PM   #42 (permalink)
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The sexual harassment game isn't one the liberals can win. This is another losing fight, your side is full of sexual deviants.
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Old 11-17-2017, 10:55 PM   #43 (permalink)
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The sexual harassment game isn't one the liberals can win. This is another losing fight, your side is full of sexual deviants.
Your side elected the biggest one of all.
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Old 11-18-2017, 05:05 AM   #44 (permalink)
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Bill Maher: Don’t Put Al Franken In With Roy Moore, Kevin Spacey Or Donald Trump

Maher noted that the condemnation Frankin was receiving was deserved, but then argued against lumping all these accusers together as if their actions were all the same.

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But Maher said Franken didn’t deserve to be “lumped in” with other prominent figures facing sexual misconduct allegations, such as the GOP’s Alabama Senate nominee Roy Moore, Hollywood actor Kevin Spacey, movie mogul Harvey Weinstein and President Donald Trump.

“Trump called his accusers liars, threatened to sue them, did long riffs at his rallies where he’d say they were too ugly for him to assault,” said Maher. “Plus, with Al Franken we’re talking about one incident. Trump has 16 accusers. Roy Moore has nine.”

Maher also called for the launch of another #MeToo campaign, but one in which people can tell “two unlike things apart.”

“I know the difference between a man who once acted like a dick and a man who is a dick, me too!” he said. “I know the difference between someone who behaved like a high schooler and someone who targeted high schoolers, me too!”

Me too.

(I look for Maher to be among the accused by Thanksgiving.)

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Old 11-18-2017, 12:07 PM   #45 (permalink)
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Oopsie.

Franken, Moore assault allegations dredge up accustions against Trump - CNNPolitics
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Old 11-18-2017, 02:32 PM   #46 (permalink)
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Old 11-18-2017, 03:30 PM   #47 (permalink)
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I'm pissed off at Franken, like I'm pissed off at any male whose sense of entitlement led him to stick his tongue where it didn't belong,
I can agree with this after hearing her account of the event. I don't agree that it is always a pure sense of entitlement.
I grew up with strict insistence that you had to aggressively show your interests or you 'lose out' to those that do. It was probably preached to me more than others because I was obviously failing to be coupled while everyone else always was, for no apparent reason other than I must not know how. (By the way, that confusion associated with bisexuality is caused by environment, not genetics.)

There is no gray area in the word no in this context, but there can be a small amount in the interpretation of rejection only if it is subtle. I can't say that's the case here either, going by her account of the event, but one thing that isn't clear from that interview - it seems she is repeating her reaction of rejection to make her point of view clear for the listeners, not repeatedly rejecting him as it might imply.

I am not trying to defend his actions. I see good reason to defend against a lot of the outrage. The differences between what she described and all of the other accusations is not subtle. (His response is completely different also.) No one should have to accept a sudden, forced kiss as anything they must be subjected to at times but, throughout history it was not considered unethical or perverted. It was instead considered grounds for a firm slap across the face.

The change in what is acceptable in society, is whether or not it would be wanted should not be in doubt beforehand. It's a good change, but it IS a change.

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What the fuck, Al? You talked such a good game. And you did a lot of good things. Why was it so hard to walk the walk?
Your criticism here is not correct. It absolutely implies a series of events in reverse order. I'll leave that for thought and let you all spell it out yourselves.

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And fellow Dems downtalking this - what the hell? Integrity means holding everyone to the same standard, not letting your friends off easy.
You call it downtalking to differentiate between an unwanted kiss and rape/groping/molesting/teen-targeting? Going headstrong and overboard over a kiss was wrong. I'm not denying that. A kiss that was written into their script beforehand. That could have been rejected beforehand as well. I don't know how you make 'entitled' any more legitimate than putting it in writing first.

The picture is completely different. We all know it was intended for humor, for an audience, without actually touching. It reminds me of a time I was talking to some friends and could read their eye movement and attempts to hide their grins because a girl behind me was simulating grabbing my ass without touching. Embarrassing, yeah, but I know the dynamic is different between genders there. Men haven't spent centuries trying to avoid daily sexual attacks from women.
But in context for that picture - I believe we spent the decade before with Benny Hill on tv every night.

I also think the last words in his response are praiseworthy -
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I am asking that an ethics investigation be undertaken, and I will gladly cooperate.
And the truth is, what people think of me in light of this is far less important than what people think of women who continue to come forward to tell their stories. They deserve to be heard, and believed. And they deserve to know that I am their ally and supporter. I have let them down and am committed to making it up to them.
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Old 11-18-2017, 04:04 PM   #48 (permalink)
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I can agree with this after hearing her account of the event. I don't agree that it is always a pure sense of entitlement.
I grew up with strict insistence that you had to aggressively show your interests or you 'lose out' to those that do. It was probably preached to me more than others because I was obviously failing to be coupled while everyone else always was, for no apparent reason other than I must not know how. (By the way, that confusion associated with bisexuality is caused by environment, not genetics.)

-
So how well did all that aggressive showing of interest work out for you? Rhetorical question. It doesn't work. Well, it does if your intent is to intimidate/coerce a woman, which makes it rape/sexual assault.

Every guy that has approached me in this way has been rejected. That will never change.
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Old 11-18-2017, 06:45 PM   #49 (permalink)
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Eh.... EXIF is pretty easy to modify and strip out even.
That is if you realize it is there. I am not sure about EXIF but a lot of other file metadata gets completely ignored by people.
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Old 11-20-2017, 12:27 PM   #50 (permalink)
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Second woman accuses Sen. Franken of sexual misconduct: report

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A second woman is accusing Al Franken of sexual misconduct – this time, when he was a Democratic senator from Minnesota.

Lindsay Menz, a 33-year-old from Texas, told CNN that the senator pulled her in close and grabbed her buttocks while the two were posing for a picture at the Minnesota State Fair in 2010. Menz says she immediately told her mother and father about the incident and posted on Facebook about it, according to the network.
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