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Old 11-13-2017, 09:47 PM   #51 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Wanda Belinda View Post
Ever notice how famous scientists or programmers don't usually do things like murder and pedophilia? It's always celebrities and politicians. There was Hans Reiser, but he was the exception.
It may, of course, be that politicians are much more in the public eye than are scientists and programmers, and celebrities, of course, are by definition in the public eye.

Allegations of sexual assault, and trials for such offences, by even a comparatively junior politician or minor actor are going to attract far more publicity than are allegations about a senior researcher at Bayer's or GlaxoSmithKline, no matter how well-known they may be in their fields.
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Old 11-14-2017, 01:07 AM   #52 (permalink)
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George Takei Blames Russian Bots For Spreading Sexual Assault Allegations

I give him points for creativity on this one. Would be astounding if true, but it seems such a bizarre reach that it just kind of makes me think the model might be telling the truth
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Old 11-14-2017, 01:12 AM   #53 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Wanda Belinda View Post
Ever notice how famous scientists or programmers don't usually do things like murder and pedophilia? It's always celebrities and politicians. There was Hans Reiser, but he was the exception.
For scientists, Richard Feynman comes to mind immediately and while I'd have to look around for other specific names, I've heard enough more general stories coming out of conventions and the like, to be reasonably convinced his behaviour wasn't especially notable. As for the tech fields, will video game design is what I'd consider an occupation in that ballpark. Going through the lists of designers who came out in defense of the Gamergators would probably be a good indicator of behavioural trends overall.

STEM fields have an enormous gender issue at the moment, have had for decades. The only reason you're far more politicians and actors being named and shamed is the fact that far more of them are famous.
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Old 11-14-2017, 02:59 AM   #54 (permalink)
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George Takei Blames Russian Bots For Spreading Sexual Assault Allegations

I give him points for creativity on this one. Would be astounding if true, but it seems such a bizarre reach that it just kind of makes me think the model might be telling the truth
The purpose of these agencies is to sow chaos, and any trending topic will do. I dumped my sources in this post.
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Old 11-14-2017, 05:34 AM   #55 (permalink)
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For scientists, Richard Feynman comes to mind immediately and while I'd have to look around for other specific names, I've heard enough more general stories coming out of conventions and the like, to be reasonably convinced his behaviour wasn't especially notable. As for the tech fields, will video game design is what I'd consider an occupation in that ballpark. Going through the lists of designers who came out in defense of the Gamergators would probably be a good indicator of behavioural trends overall.

STEM fields have an enormous gender issue at the moment, have had for decades. The only reason you're far more politicians and actors being named and shamed is the fact that far more of them are famous.
The problems in STEM have been well documented. There have been numerous studies and too many "internal investigations" that have made clear the magnitude of the problem. STEM has had several instances where this has come out in public. Two years ago it was with Geoffrey Marcy at UC Berkeley:
https://www.buzzfeed.com/azeenghoray...aDa#.ofMZMP090
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...=.ba407aca063f
https://gizmodo.com/geoff-marcy-was-...t-t-1738348591

He eventually resigned from Berkeley, but it was a rather tortured path to get him removed. The episode touched off a series of other people being exposed as well as much soul searching and hand wringing. Of course there were promises it would never happen again and things would change, but those promises have gone unfulfilled. Things have improved in some places, but those have been local changes. (Coincidentally, a small group of us just had a discussion about some of these things just last night.... *sigh*)

Anyways, back on topic. From what I have read, people close to Brunton have reported that they recall him discussing this episode shortly after it happened. That kind of corroborating evidence is generally enough for me to believe the survivor.

As to what to make of this, I am not sure. Takei was not a person of power and influence at that time, but his denials are troubling. Personally, I never thought of him as some sort of angel to put on a pedestal. He has had insightful remarks about some issues, and his remarks about the interment of Americans during World War II are important. Despite that he is just an actor, and his part on the Howard Stern show have not exactly endeared me to him.
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Old 11-14-2017, 05:53 AM   #56 (permalink)
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I worked with engineers, surveyors, advanced engineering scientists and technical staff as a young woman, and I can confirm that sexual harassment was alive and well in those areas as with all others. I don't think the types of harassment in entertainment are special, it is simply that people care about their heroes such as the one who is the subject of this thread, and therefore it is newsworthy.

If Joe Public took a young editorial assistant Jane Doe out to lunch and then suggested forcefully she might like to join him in a hotel room in 1996... well who is going to care about that? It's only the fame of the people involved which makes it headline news, and sadly people just don't care enough about anonymous people in positions of power they've never heard about. It's also so common that it's hardly news.

In that way, the stars of screen and stage who have behaved badly are doing us a favour, by bringing discussion about this into the public arena and making us talk about it. In the UK government there seem to be a large number of men who don't even understand what sexual harassment IS, and have therefore claimed to have been gleefully unaware of the consequences of their actions. There's a certain British attitude towards women, specifically from public schoolboys, which indicates they're either fun, and constantly up for any form of sex they care to inflict on them, or no fun, and possibly wife material.

My own bugbear is the fact that most of the women in politics and the media are by dint of their position not typical of the women in the country, who are mostly not in positions of power, are still doing the majority of the housework and shopping and cooking and childcare. These high-profile women also appear to regard the sort of stuff that has been coming out as 'normal banter' and a price they've had to pay for being a woman in a man's world. But I don't think it should be normal, and I don't think they should have put up with it. The idea that Julia Hartley-Brewer would regard having her personal space invaded repeatedly by Michael Fallon as simply part of that life, and would have to threaten him with violence to get him to stop, should not be seen as normal.

However, if it had happened to Jane Smith, secretary, and the perpetrator Martin No-one, chief scientist at A Place You've Never Heard of, it would never have been news.
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Old 11-14-2017, 05:58 AM   #57 (permalink)
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George Takei Blames Russian Bots For Spreading Sexual Assault Allegations

I give him points for creativity on this one. Would be astounding if true, but it seems such a bizarre reach that it just kind of makes me think the model might be telling the truth
Part of what makes the bot fed chaos believable is diversity in telling specific demographics what they want to hear. Given their political position regarding gays and ongoing attempts to feed chaos over here .... why wouldn't they pad their pipeline with some salacious Takei focused 'all gheys r bad! see?'
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Old 11-14-2017, 06:25 AM   #58 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Myf View Post
For scientists, Richard Feynman comes to mind immediately and while I'd have to look around for other specific names, I've heard enough more general stories coming out of conventions and the like, to be reasonably convinced his behaviour wasn't especially notable. As for the tech fields, will video game design is what I'd consider an occupation in that ballpark. Going through the lists of designers who came out in defense of the Gamergators would probably be a good indicator of behavioural trends overall.

STEM fields have an enormous gender issue at the moment, have had for decades. The only reason you're far more politicians and actors being named and shamed is the fact that far more of them are famous.
If we are including ethics one name jumps to the head of that list for me: Thomas Edison. Your opinion of him will never be the same after reading a biography about Tesla. I sometimes wonder how much of a leapfrog in advancements we would have made if he never had the misfortune of meeting Edison.
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Old 11-14-2017, 08:07 AM   #59 (permalink)
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Someone posted this on another forum.

George Takei Admitted To Sexually Harassing Men On A Howard Stern Podcast - YouTube

(The Youtube account hosting it is gross, but it's a clip of an interview that actually did happen so.)

I found a DailyKos article discussing it that reads well and logical, but then she says this:


I'm sorry, but no. No. No. No. And no.
George Takei's statement about the Howard Stern show: It was a sketch.

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Old 11-14-2017, 08:17 AM   #60 (permalink)
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Ever notice how famous scientists or programmers don't usually do things like murder and pedophilia? It's always celebrities and politicians. There was Hans Reiser, but he was the exception.
And yet every movie mad scientist is a doctor or scientist. It's never "This famous actor was behind it". It's always Dr. Evil, or Dr. No or Dr. Archeville.

I say end this stereotype! STOP MAKING DOCTORS EVIL! It's patently not true!

Well except Dentists. Those guys are all little Satans.
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Old 11-14-2017, 08:35 AM   #61 (permalink)
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And yet every movie mad scientist is a doctor or scientist. It's never "This famous actor was behind it". It's always Dr. Evil, or Dr. No or Dr. Archeville.

I say end this stereotype! STOP MAKING DOCTORS EVIL! It's patently not true!

Well except Dentists. Those guys are all little Satans.
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Old 11-14-2017, 08:47 AM   #62 (permalink)
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And yet every movie mad scientist is a doctor or scientist. It's never "This famous actor was behind it". It's always Dr. Evil, or Dr. No or Dr. Archeville.

I say end this stereotype! STOP MAKING DOCTORS EVIL! It's patently not true!

Well except Dentists. Those guys are all little Satans.
Strictly speaking, aren't most movie evil mad scientists in fact evil mad engineers?

ETA What Veritable Quandry's cartoon said.
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Old 11-14-2017, 09:05 AM   #63 (permalink)
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As an engineer, I take offense to this turn of events.....

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Old 11-14-2017, 10:45 AM   #64 (permalink)
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Old 11-14-2017, 11:32 AM   #65 (permalink)
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Also, we never see enough Mad Social Scientists...

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Old 11-14-2017, 12:27 PM   #66 (permalink)
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Why did I spot that as Foglio before even zooming in on the byline?
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Old 11-14-2017, 01:09 PM   #67 (permalink)
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Also, we never see enough Mad Social Scientists...
That's because Social Science is a "Science".
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Old 11-14-2017, 01:38 PM   #68 (permalink)
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That's because Social Science is a "Science".
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Old 11-14-2017, 02:19 PM   #69 (permalink)
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Old 11-14-2017, 05:34 PM   #70 (permalink)
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For some reason, "Mad Scientists" just want to rob banks. Harley Quinn - Mad Psychiatrist who robs banks, Poison Ivy - Mad Biologist who robs banks, Doctor Octavius - Mad Physicist who robs banks, Man-Bat - Mad Geneticist who robs banks, Clock King - Mad Physicist who robs banks, etc.

There are a surprisingly a lot of villains in DC and Marvel that have Doctorate degrees who want to rob banks. Are student loans that much of a problem?
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Old 11-14-2017, 06:11 PM   #71 (permalink)
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Why did I spot that as Foglio before even zooming in on the byline?
Because a) it's Girl Genius, easily the Foglios most widely recognised work and b) Phil Foglio's art style is quite distinctive.
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Old 11-14-2017, 06:29 PM   #72 (permalink)
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It doesn't matter what kind of scientist they are or if they rob banks or if they should be classed as engineers. You're focusing on the wrong part of 'mad scientist.

What is important is that they are 'mad'.

That explains it all really.
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Old 11-14-2017, 08:12 PM   #73 (permalink)
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Because a) it's Girl Genius, easily the Foglios most widely recognised work and b) Phil Foglio's art style is quite distinctive.
or c) I read WAY too much 'Dragon' back in the 80s
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Old 11-14-2017, 09:40 PM   #74 (permalink)
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Also, we never see enough Mad Social Scientists...
They're harder to laugh at.

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Old 11-14-2017, 10:01 PM   #75 (permalink)
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For some reason, "Mad Scientists" just want to rob banks. Harley Quinn - Mad Psychiatrist who robs banks, Poison Ivy - Mad Biologist who robs banks, Doctor Octavius - Mad Physicist who robs banks, Man-Bat - Mad Geneticist who robs banks, Clock King - Mad Physicist who robs banks, etc.

There are a surprisingly a lot of villains in DC and Marvel that have Doctorate degrees who want to rob banks. Are student loans that much of a problem?
Man-Bat? Clock King?

I don't want to know.
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