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Old 10-28-2017, 03:40 AM   #1 (permalink)
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Mueller files charges in Russia investigation

First charges filed in Mueller investigation

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A federal grand jury in Washington on Friday approved the first charges in the investigation led by special counsel Robert Mueller, according to sources briefed on the matter.

The charges are still sealed under orders from a federal judge. Plans were prepared Friday for anyone charged to be taken into custody as soon as Monday, the sources said. It is unclear what the charges are.
If I had to guess, I would say the charges will be against Manafort or Flynn, possibly as a way to pressure them to cooperate with the investigation.
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Old 10-28-2017, 10:01 AM   #2 (permalink)
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Ugh, the Fox morning news program has been fixated on this all morning. They keep switching back and forth between some local feel good nonsense about how some local rednecks helped a little old lady veteran wash her car and then to the grand jury results. There is not much to say about the grand jury, and they do not say much about the back story. Each time they revisit this story they transition to the "Dirty Dossier" and discuss who paid for it. They have experts on claiming that the FBI helped pay for it, and your tax dollars are being used to shamefully discredit the President. The whole time they have a banner across the bottom of the screen saying Hillary paid for the DIRTY DOSSIER. There are also occasional exclamations about uranium and Russia. (It is not clear if Russia is bad or good which seems to depend on the context of who is doing business with them.)

As far as I can tell they have not explained why the dossier even matters let alone why the people who paid for it matters.


It is like watching a petulant two year old with the attention span of a cocker spaniel and the disposition of a water moccasin.
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Old 10-28-2017, 10:09 AM   #3 (permalink)
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CNN must have made some rule about the dossier. They have mentioned it frequently since January but never once have they mentioned Russian hookers pissing on Obama's bed.
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Old 10-28-2017, 12:09 PM   #4 (permalink)
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CNN must have made some rule about the dossier. They have mentioned it frequently since January but never once have they mentioned Russian hookers pissing on Obama's bed.
I think it's called "journalistic integrity". Nobody's actually confirmed the hooker piss story. It's been referred to as "salacious detail". Mentioning it in a dossier isn't proof - that's why so much time & money is being spent on verifying the whole dossier.

Unless you're a GOP congressman.
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Old 10-28-2017, 12:21 PM   #5 (permalink)
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I think it's called "journalistic integrity". Nobody's actually confirmed the hooker piss story. It's been referred to as "salacious detail". Mentioning it in a dossier isn't proof - that's why so much time & money is being spent on verifying the whole dossier.

Unless you're a GOP congressman.
Yes there's no proof, far from it. It still seems prudish to avoid mentioning what the dossier contains seeing how they are talking about it all of the time. They already are saying it's unproven. It's like they don't want to offend someone's puritan ethics.
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Old 10-28-2017, 12:29 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Old 10-28-2017, 11:46 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Trump's strategy seems to be to have FOX and the conservative media push to get Mueller out..and of course... blame Hillary.

As Russia Probe Heats Up, Conservatives Call For Special Counsel Mueller To Quit

Quote:
The GOP has long complained about Mueller’s supposed lack of objectivity. But this week, demands urging him to quit escalated in the wake of reports that the Democratic National Convention and the Hillary Clinton campaign funded opposition research that turned up a secret dossier on Trump and his alleged Russia ties.

On Thursday the editorial board of the Wall Street Journal ― a crown jewel in the media empire of Rupert Murdoch, a close Trump ally — went after Mueller as well. It wrote that the dossier news raises the question of whether the document helped fuel the FBI’s probe into Trump’s campaign.
Trump team’s response to Russia news: Focus on Clinton, leaks or anything else

Thay are also trying to use this to gather campaign contributions:

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The Trump campaign in a text message to supporters just before the CNN story broke blasted out a fundraising solicitation for upwards of $2,700 from “Trump Headquarters” with a subject line, “RUSSIA?”

“The Script Has Been Flipped,” the campaign’s website read. “Crooked Hillary and the DNC have been EXPOSED paying a company to use a foreign agent to take down my Presidency. … And the company they used has ties to Russia. I need the IMMEDIATE support of the American people. Contribute now and DEMAND answers from Crooked Hillary and the DNC!”
Boy, I would love to be a fly on the wall in that oval office this weekend.
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Old 10-29-2017, 12:03 AM   #8 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cindy Claveau View Post
I think it's called "journalistic integrity". Nobody's actually confirmed the hooker piss story. It's been referred to as "salacious detail". Mentioning it in a dossier isn't proof - that's why so much time & money is being spent on verifying the whole dossier.
IIRC even the dossier doesn't say this is a thing that definitely happened, just that it's a story that was getting around in the Russian spy apparatus.
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Old 10-29-2017, 11:10 AM   #9 (permalink)
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Old 10-29-2017, 01:41 PM   #10 (permalink)
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I thought this might be of interest (found on reddit)
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From Kevin G Shinnick:

I made a comment recently where I claimed that Republican administrations had been much more criminally corrupt over the last 50 plus years than the Democrats. I was challenged (dared actually) to prove it. So I did a bit of research and when I say a bit I mean it didn’t take long and there is no comparison.

When comparing criminal indictments of those serving in the executive branch of presidential administrations, it’s so lopsided as to be ridiculous. Yet all I ever hear about is how supposedly “corrupt” the Democrats are. So why don’t we break it down by president and the numbers?

Obama (D) – 8 yrs in office. Zero criminal indictments, zero convictions and zero prison sentences. So the next time somebody describes the Obama administration as “scandal free” they aren’t speaking wishfully, they’re simply telling the truth.

Bush, George W. (R) – 8 yrs in office. 16 criminal indictments. 16 convictions. 9 prison sentences.

Clinton (D) – 8 yrs in office. 2 criminal indictments. One conviction. One prison sentence. That’s right nearly 8 yrs of investigations. Tens of millions spent and 30 yrs of claiming them the most corrupt ever and there was exactly one person convicted of a crime.

Bush, George H. W. (R) – 4 yrs in office. One indictment. One conviction. One prison sentence.

Reagan (R) – 8 yrs in office. 26 criminal indictments. 16 convictions. 8 prison sentences.

Carter (D) – 4 yrs in office. One indictment. Zero convictions and zero prison sentences.

Ford (R) – 4 yrs in office. One indictment and one conviction. One prison sentence.

Nixon (R) – 6 yrs in office. 76 criminal indictments. 55 convictions. 15 prison sentences.

Johnson (D) – 5 yrs in office. Zero indictments. Zero convictions. Zero prison sentences.

So, let’s see where that leaves us. In the last 53 years, Democrats have been in the Oval Office for 25 of those years, while Republicans held it for 28. In their 25 yrs in office Democrats had a total of three executive branch officials indicted with one conviction and one prison sentence. That’s one whole executive branch official convicted of a crime in two and a half decades of Democrat leadership.

In the 28 yrs that Republicans have held office over the last 53 yrs they have had a total of (a drum roll would be more than appropriate), 120 criminal indictments of executive branch officials. 89 criminal convictions and 34 prison sentences handed down. That’s more prison sentences than years in office since 1968 for Republicans. If you want to count articles of impeachment as indictments (they aren’t really but we can count them as an action), both sides get one more. However, Clinton wasn’t found guilty while Nixon resigned and was pardoned by Ford (and a pardon carries with it a legal admission of guilt on the part of the pardoned). So those only serve to make Republicans look even worse.

With everything going on with Trump and his people right now, it’s a safe bet Republicans are gonna be padding their numbers a bit real soon.

So let’s just go over the numbers one more time, shall we? 120 indictments for Republicans. 89 convictions, and 34 prison sentences. Those aren’t “feelings” or “alternate facts.” Those are simply the stats by the numbers. Republicans are, and have been for my entire lifetime, the most criminally corrupt party to hold the office of the presidency.

So those are the actual numbers. Feel free to copy and paste!
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Old 10-29-2017, 04:25 PM   #11 (permalink)
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These 13 Wire Transfers Are A Focus Of The FBI Probe Into Paul Manafort

[quoteThe FBI's investigation of Donald Trump's former campaign manager, Paul Manafort, includes a keen focus on a series of suspicious wire transfers in which offshore companies linked to Manafort moved more than $3 million all over the globe between 2012 and 2013.][/quote]
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Old 10-30-2017, 08:23 AM   #12 (permalink)
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https://www.nytimes.com/2017/10/30/u...-indicted.html

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WASHINGTON — Paul Manafort and his former business associate Rick Gates were told to surrender to federal authorities Monday morning, the first charges in a special counsel investigation, according to a person involved in the case.
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Old 10-30-2017, 08:57 AM   #13 (permalink)
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Old 10-30-2017, 09:43 AM   #14 (permalink)
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Old 10-30-2017, 10:16 AM   #15 (permalink)
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According to the BBC,
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The good news for Mr Trump is these charges stem from Mr Manafort's past business dealings, not his campaign efforts. He is being accused of working for years for pro-Russian Ukrainian politicians and laundering millions in subsequent payments.

It certainly makes Mr Trump's decision to cut Mr Manafort loose last August after details emerged of his Ukrainian ties seem a wise one.

The good news has its limits, however. Mr Manafort will be under growing pressure to co-operate with the Mueller investigation. If he offers up useful information about his time during the campaign, this could be just the first domino to fall.
Ex-Trump aide Manafort charged with US tax fraud over Ukraine work - BBC News
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Old 10-30-2017, 10:21 AM   #16 (permalink)
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Old 10-30-2017, 11:09 AM   #17 (permalink)
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However, there is also -this-
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Old 10-30-2017, 11:20 AM   #18 (permalink)
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However, there is also -this-
Context? The interesting thing is that is on the DOJ site but is marked sealed.
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Old 10-30-2017, 11:37 AM   #19 (permalink)
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Context? The interesting thing is that is on the DOJ site but is marked sealed.
I think she meant it's interesting because they just broke that seal today too and the PaddyPopalot guy pleaded guilty back in the beginning of October but they sealed his record, only to be released today. When Mueller turned himself in.
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Old 10-30-2017, 11:54 AM   #20 (permalink)
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When Mueller turned himself in.
O.O

BTW, /r/politics has a good megathread here, with various stories and analyses:

https://www.reddit.com/r/politics/co..._surrender_to/
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Old 10-30-2017, 11:59 AM   #21 (permalink)
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It is a clear signal that they already have at least one cooperating witness. Sounds like this may connect the Trump Tower meeting with Manafort, Trump Jr, and Kushner to the charges of accepting Russian aid (or, at the very least, their intention prior to the meeting). It lets Manafort know that (1) he has an out if he cooperates and (2) they have a source to check against any account he makes in case he tries to lie about his role and the facts. Expect more charges against Manafort soon, and after time to build a solid case, Trump Jr. and Kushner. That's where Trump will become well and truly unhinged.
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Old 10-30-2017, 12:05 PM   #22 (permalink)
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Expect more charges against Manafort soon, and after time to build a solid case, Trump Jr. and Kushner. That's where Trump will become well and truly unhinged.
Indeed, the Vox article linked within said Reddit thread comes to much the same conclusion:

Why is Mueller’s team homing in on Paul Manafort? I asked a former federal prosecutor. - Vox

What should we use as the scale of unhingedness? I feel we need a unit of measurement.
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Old 10-30-2017, 12:17 PM   #23 (permalink)
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Relatedly..

Trump’s former campaign head was indicted and Fox News talked about cheeseburger emojis - Vox

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News like the indictment of the former campaign head of the president of the United States is typically treated by outlets as an all-hands-on-deck effort, demanding the attention of the full newsroom to get the story to readers and viewers. That's certainly how many outlets today are approaching the news that President Donald Trump’s former campaign chair, Paul Manafort, has been indicted on, among other charges, conspiracy against the US.

But not, apparently, Fox News, which spent the morning going back and forth from the indictment news, which broke before Fox & Friends’ third and final hour, to stories about … cheeseburger emojis.
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Old 10-30-2017, 12:18 PM   #24 (permalink)
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What should we use as the scale of unhingedness? I feel we need a unit of measurement.
Whatever it is (or is not) soon it will probably be something like the millitrump.
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Old 10-30-2017, 12:19 PM   #25 (permalink)
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Quote:
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O.O

BTW, /r/politics has a good megathread here, with various stories and analyses:

https://www.reddit.com/r/politics/co..._surrender_to/
On stories like this, I can barely stand to read more than one page of comments on Reddit. The /r/theDonald trolls come out in force, throwing all kinds of shade at any story not favorable to their hero. The WhatAboutIsm goes to level 11 - this morning, the Manafort story was muddied (or attempted) by references to Podesta. As if Podesta had anywhere near the same Russian ties or had ever been paid to manage Ukranian influence.



They think it's a valid counter argument. It's both sad and hilarious.
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