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Old 09-26-2017, 10:17 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Alabama Christianist Roy Moore

You know him, of course. This time, it gets interesting™, in a primary between the former incumbent and the talibangelical:

Moore crushes Strange in Alabama Senate primary - POLITICO

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Moore’s victory comes despite the efforts of top Republicans in Washington, who threw their weight behind Strange. Trump endorsed Strange in August and appeared with him in Alabama last week, while a super PAC aligned with McConnell spent millions of dollars on pro-Strange advertising.
The key, of course, is how he fares in the actual election.

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Moore will now face Democrat Doug Jones in a December special election. Jones, a former U.S. attorney, won his primary outright in August, and some Democrats hope that he could be competitive against Moore, despite Alabama’s strong Republican lean. Former Vice President Joe Biden is slated to campaign for Jones in Alabama next week, and the Democratic opposition research group American Bridge released a report on Moore highlighting "a history of making racist statements" and Moore's suggestion that the 9/11 terrorist attacks “was God’s punishment for legitimizing sodomy and abortion."
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Old 09-26-2017, 10:45 PM   #2 (permalink)
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My roommate is a local organizer for the Doug Jones campaign, so I've had a front-row seat for this Senate race. I preferred Will Boyd over Jones personally and got to meet Boyd in person during the Democratic primary campaign. Jones does have the best shot of winning in the general. Today's turnout didn't seem too high from where I sit, which runs in Moore's favor. As far as the general is concerned, Jones is the best shot the Dems have but turnout will be an issue. Doug Jones is going to need anti-Moore Republican votes to win and from the information I'm seeing and getting on the ground and from polling data I've seen, he has a shot.

Jones winning would be a bit of a coup since the party has suffered so badly under Joe Reed's corruption that it's become a shambles even in the face of our recent state scandals. Statewide elections are next year.
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Old 09-27-2017, 09:30 AM   #3 (permalink)
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If this follows the pattern of the special congressional election in Georgia the Democrats will pour a bajillion shekels into this race when the best they can hope for is that the race will be close. Then if the race is close they will call it a victory because it should not be close and pat themselves on the back for spending other people's money. After that the pundits will sit around and wonder why people are disillusioned with the system and are voting for complete whack jobs.
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Old 09-27-2017, 11:33 AM   #4 (permalink)
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If this follows the pattern of the special congressional election in Georgia the Democrats will pour a bajillion shekels into this race when the best they can hope for is that the race will be close. Then if the race is close they will call it a victory because it should not be close and pat themselves on the back for spending other people's money. After that the pundits will sit around and wonder why people are disillusioned with the system and are voting for complete whack jobs.
I'm not following what you think would be the more prudent approach. Do you believe the Dems should just ignore the election and let the whack job run and win unopposed?

That would certainly save "other people's money" although save it for what? Elections we're sure we could win?

If we don't try in "unelectable areas", how will we know whether they're truly lost or we're just throwing them away? Personally, I'm willing to spend money trying.
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Old 09-27-2017, 01:31 PM   #5 (permalink)
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I'm not following what you think would be the more prudent approach. Do you believe the Dems should just ignore the election and let the whack job run and win unopposed?

That would certainly save "other people's money" although save it for what? Elections we're sure we could win?

If we don't try in "unelectable areas", how will we know whether they're truly lost or we're just throwing them away? Personally, I'm willing to spend money trying.
I think you're both right. They shouldn't let any race go uncontested. But at the same time, you can contest the race and still have what happened to Ossoff happen again.
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Old 09-27-2017, 02:47 PM   #6 (permalink)
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There's a reason why these are open seats to begin with. Administration officials were plucked the safest districts imaginable, of course they are "unelectable". But having the opposition come within a point or two or three in what should be 20+ point defeat is sending aloud and clear message that will pay off in spades next year. Rs are on notice they going to have to spend and defend every seat. These may be tactical defeats, but definitely strategic wins.
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Old 09-27-2017, 06:01 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Rs are on notice they going to have to spend and defend every seat. These may be tactical defeats, but definitely strategic wins.
There are other benefits to supporting an election, regardless of whether the Dems win it. Ultimately, elections are won through political machinery: registering your party voters, organizing primaries, campaigning by volunteers in your community. When Democrats abandon the attempt to win elections, the machinery gets rusty: voters are unmotivated, volunteers drift away, skilled operations are dismantled. Trying to put that all together again is much more difficult than keeping it running.

One way we can improve the Democratic party as a whole is to treat EVERY election as potentially winnable. Hone the machinery, improve our game, narrow the gap. This -- and only this -- can make sure we're ready to take advantage when the pendulum swings.

If it doesn't ever swing our way again, at least we went down fighting instead of just shrugging and leaving the ring.
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Old 09-27-2017, 06:14 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Alabamians have a pretty stark choice this time. Moore is a fundamentalist who thinks gays should burn in hell, and his opponent

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Jones prosecuted Thomas Blanton and Bobby Cherry, two members of the Ku Klux Klan, for their roles in the 1963 16th Street Baptist Church bombing.
- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doug_Jones_(attorney)
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Old 09-27-2017, 06:31 PM   #9 (permalink)
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A lot will be affected by Alabama's attempts at restricting voting in strong democratic areas, and how effective they are. The state requires state id to vote, and oddly, in a lot of counties with high PoC populations, they closed the offices that issue those. And I'm not sure if that succeeded or if they were forced to open them again.

The advantage of living where our news covers Mobile as well as Pensacola, but then, I don't have a TV anymore, so I'm a bit behind on local news.
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Old 09-28-2017, 05:14 AM   #10 (permalink)
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I'm not following what you think would be the more prudent approach. Do you believe the Dems should just ignore the election and let the whack job run and win unopposed?

That would certainly save "other people's money" although save it for what? Elections we're sure we could win?

If we don't try in "unelectable areas", how will we know whether they're truly lost or we're just throwing them away? Personally, I'm willing to spend money trying.
There are numbers between zerro and one bajillion. There are also more options than complete capitulation and scorched earth. Going back to the special election in Georgia's 6th district. The Democratic side spent 31.2 million dollars, and the Republican side spent 22.7 million dollars. (Source: NY TImes) For the Democrats to outspend the Republicans and lose really put the other side "on notice." A few big wins like that will really make a difference.

The amount of money flowing in the special election was so excessive that a local television station had to create more ad space. The station had a second channel they use for broadcasting reruns and game shows. They replaced one of their airings of the Andy Griffin show with a news broadcast which allowed them to air more commercials. After the election they went back to their regular schedule. The extra broadcast was basically a rebroadcast of their 6pm news shown at 7pm but allowed the station to air more political ads. The station could rake in more money while no one watched those extra political ads. The ads were ubiquitous and were tuned out by most people regardless. (Source: Atlanta Journal and Constitution.)

Adding Democratic voters to the rolls is great. Putting up a fight is great. But a lot of money was not spent wisely and was just thrown away. It is great to put up a fight and try to win. Throwing away obscene amounts of money when there is a small probability of winning in ways that do not help is silly.

(warning - this topic hits close to home, and this where the ranty part gets going)

Speaking of capitulation.... In the district where I live the Democrats did not run any candidate for the House of Representatives. The same is true for the district next to ours. We live right on the edge between the two districts. The line between the two districts neatly carves off part of the town I live in. This town is the largest in either district and is the most diverse and most Democratic areas around. In this town whites do not form a majority by themselves, and as for the future the largest ethnic group for the kids at a nearby middle school is Latino with blacks and whites roughly splitting the difference for the rest.

The two districts represent what is wrong with politics in this state. There is a good bit of angst around here as to whether or not the Democrats are right to not run anybody. I wish they would run someone, and complete capitulation is the wrong answer. However, trying to win at all costs is not the answer either.

If the Democrats want to waste money by "sending a message" to the Republicans around here and try to win at all costs then I want nothing to do with them. If they want to focus on more local elections as well as fight the bigger problems of gerrymandering and discrimination then I am all in. Those fights are worth winning at a high cost.

As for whether or not state wide elections in Alabama or Georgia's 6th are winnable, I can share a personal anecdote. I have a cousin-in-law (once removed by American standards) who lives in Georgia's 6th. She is a cancer survivor, and her mother died from cancer. She has two daughters who are at a high risk, and one of them suffers from other medical ailments. Without the ACA healthcare would simply not be affordable.

She voted Republican in the special election. Her mother was a long time Republican and was active in her local party apparatus. She openly admits that her vote did not represent her values and interests but could not bring herself to vote otherwise. My cousin is educated and relatively liberal but is still unable to pull her head out of her own sheep shaped shithole and is willing to sell out her own children for a habit formed by nothing more than shallow sentiment. Georgia's 6th is filled with unthinking primates not far removed from lemurs, and it is that way for a reason. That district is designed to be won by a Republican and it shaves off a small piece of Atlanta as a way to take away the political agency of a large number of people.

It is more important to fight against that injustice than to set records in terms of spending for an election that is unlikely to be won. As for Alabama, the Democrats should field the best candidate and support that candidate. They should not spend so much money that obscene records are set unless there is a chance to win. It is not yet clear if that is the case. Time will reveal how vulnerable Justice Moore is, and at the moment the only thing that will stop him is himself and his own bigotry. The Democratic party does not need to break the bank to see if that happens.

Last edited by Grandma Bates; 09-28-2017 at 05:26 AM. Reason: forgot something
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Old 09-28-2017, 05:23 AM   #11 (permalink)
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As for Alabama, the Democrats should field the best candidate and support that candidate. They should not spend so much money that obscene records are set unless there is a chance to win. It is not yet clear if that is the case. Time will reveal how vulnerable Justice Moore is, and at the moment the only thing that will stop him is himself and his own bigotry. The Democratic party does not need to break the bank to see if that happens.
Thank you. Your previous post didn't provide any perspective for understanding your comment, but this post was quite cogent and insightful.
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Old 09-28-2017, 06:43 AM   #12 (permalink)
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I'd add that the more the Dems spend, the more the Repubs spend. And while they might have more money from single donors, they do have finite resources - one race they spend a lot in, might be another they can't afford to spend a lot in. Also, if they are forced to focus on national level offices, it makes it a little easier to snag state level offices from them [which has been happening].
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Old 09-28-2017, 08:11 AM   #13 (permalink)
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Georgia's 6th is filled with unthinking primates not far removed from lemurs, and it is that way for a reason.
It is best not to take lemurs for granted. They're smarter than you might think. Back in the early '90s one individual found a lemur logging into his computer and was educated about them:

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Old 09-28-2017, 08:43 AM   #14 (permalink)
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In the district where I live the Democrats did not run any candidate for the House of Representatives. The same is true for the district next to ours.
[...]
There is a good bit of angst around here as to whether or not the Democrats are right to not run anybody. I wish they would run someone, and complete capitulation is the wrong answer.
How is the party as a whole responsible for this more so than the citizens of these areas?
Which came first - Ossoff deciding to run or the Democratic Party deciding to throw so much money behind him?
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Old 09-28-2017, 10:25 AM   #15 (permalink)
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You know him, of course. This time, it gets interesting™, in a primary between the former incumbent and the talibangelical:

Moore crushes Strange in Alabama Senate primary - POLITICO
I don't give much thought to Alabama... I mean, it's not as bad as some states, but they certainly lost what little respect I had for them by electing this regressive 'activist judge'.

I had so hoped we were 'done' with that jag-off. But with him, Arpio, etc ... it's like a horror movie. Just when you think the creature from hell is finally dead... *SURPRISE!* RAWR! Chews-the-face-off-another-cast-member, the audience screams and popcorn flies everywhere.
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Old 09-28-2017, 11:12 AM   #16 (permalink)
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I don't give much thought to Alabama... I mean, it's not as bad as some states....
I'm racking my brain for a list of those "some states." Mississippi maybe? Possibly South Dakota. That's about it for the rush to the bottom.
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Old 09-28-2017, 12:24 PM   #17 (permalink)
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Louisiana and Mississippi are always at the bottom of lists. Always.
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Old 09-28-2017, 03:25 PM   #18 (permalink)
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I was actually rooting for Moore to win. It would be great if the Democrats could make a serious run at him, but in the backwaters of Alabama, that is not likely. So I say elect Mr. Crazy Pants and send his ass up to Washington and seat him right next to McConnel. He is not going to hurt a single Democrat in Congress, but he will make most of the GOP sick every time he opens his mouth. He is a gift that will keep on giving.
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Old 09-28-2017, 04:40 PM   #19 (permalink)
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I'm racking my brain for a list of those "some states." Mississippi maybe? Possibly South Dakota. That's about it for the rush to the bottom.
Mississippi, Arkansas, and Louisiana to name a few.
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Old 09-28-2017, 09:46 PM   #20 (permalink)
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I had so hoped we were 'done' with that jag-off. But with him, Arpio, etc ... it's like a horror movie. Just when you think the creature from hell is finally dead... *SURPRISE!* RAWR! Chews-the-face-off-another-cast-member, the audience screams and popcorn flies everywhere.
Moore is 70 years old, like Sessions (also 70) and Trump (71). That generation is about to start dying in large numbers, and it won't be a moment too soon. Arpaio is fucking 85.

In Star Wars terms, what I hope history will show is Obama was A New Hope, Trump is The Old Racists Strike Back, to be followed by Return of the Liberals.
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Old 09-29-2017, 01:11 AM   #21 (permalink)
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I was actually rooting for Moore to win. It would be great if the Democrats could make a serious run at him, but in the backwaters of Alabama, that is not likely. So I say elect Mr. Crazy Pants and send his ass up to Washington and seat him right next to McConnel. He is not going to hurt a single Democrat in Congress, but he will make most of the GOP sick every time he opens his mouth. He is a gift that will keep on giving.
Not to mention, if Moore does get into Congress, the other R congress members are going to have to explain every shit dribble that falls from his mouth, either excusing it or endorsing it if they need his vote, while simultaneously being asked to explain Dumpster tweets.

It could get poetic.
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Old 09-29-2017, 09:40 AM   #22 (permalink)
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How is the party as a whole responsible for this more so than the citizens of these areas?
Which came first - Ossoff deciding to run or the Democratic Party deciding to throw so much money behind him?
It is both. When I lived in New Hampshire I had a friend who was the local country chair for the Democratic party. She spent a good deal of time trying to convince, beg, and cajole people to play their part. So yes, someone has to step up, but the local party has to do a lot of leg work to convince people to get involved and then support them to get them on the ballot and run a campaign. That takes a great deal of work.

As much as I gripe about the national parties, I readily admit that the local apparatchiks are vital to keeping the system going for the republic itself. When they do their job either someone else gets the credit or nobody notices. When they do not do their job the whole system suffers.

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Louisiana and Mississippi are always at the bottom of lists. Always.
Mississippi is so bad that people in Georgia look down on them as being backwards. Georgians are not aware of Louisiana, though. Everything west of the Mississippi and North of South Carolina is like Lesser Outer Mongolia and is considered to be foreign lands.
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Old 09-29-2017, 10:20 AM   #23 (permalink)
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Mississippi is so bad that people in Georgia look down on them as being backwards. Georgians are not aware of Louisiana, though. Everything west of the Mississippi and North of South Carolina is like Lesser Outer Mongolia and is considered to be foreign lands.
Hmmm. I grew up in Lousyana. Lived for 10 years in Mississippi. My grandfather* on my dad's side "migrated" from Georgia to Lousyana when he was still a young man, met and married my grandmother, who was from McComb, MS before settling in Lousyana.

Of course, all that was long ago and things are somewhat different now but it sounds to me more like you are describing Savannah more than the whole of Georgia.





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Old 09-30-2017, 04:50 PM   #24 (permalink)
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Wow, if Georgians don't know about Louisiana, then how did I know people from there?
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Old 10-11-2017, 07:51 PM   #25 (permalink)
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I'll just leave this here. Federal charges incoming?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/inves...e5d_story.html
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