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Old 09-08-2017, 04:24 AM   #1 (permalink)
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Hillary's Book: What Happened?

Seems like her book is about to remind us how unpopular a candidate she became. Excerpts have placings blame for her loss on Sanders, Comey, Obama and even Biden(?). Ultimately she takes a bit of blame herself, but I just don't see this playing well with Democrats or the public in general.

Democrats dread Hillary's book tour

A BRIEF LIST OF PEOPLE CLINTON BLAMES FOR HER ELECTION LOSS, PART 3

Hillary’s Message To Dems: Don’t Give Bernie The Keys

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“Maybe at the worst possible time, as we are fighting some of the most high-stakes policy and institutional battles we may ever see, at a time when we’re trying to bring the party together so we can all move the party forward — stronger, stronger together,” said Rep. Jared Huffman, a Democrat who represents a Northern California district. “She’s got every right to tell her story. Who am I to say she shouldn’t, or how she should tell it? But it is difficult for some of us, even like myself who’ve supported her, to play out all these media cycles about the blame game, and the excuses.”

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Old 09-08-2017, 04:55 AM   #2 (permalink)
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Front-row tickets to see Hillary Clinton in Ann Arbor on sale for $600 | MLive.com

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VIP ticket packages are being offered for anywhere from $372 to $597, with the most pricey ticket including a front-row seat with a souvenir laminate, a signed first-edition copy of Clinton's new book and a pre-event photo op and formal meet and greet.

Other VIP packages are offered for seats in the first six rows with the same extra perks

Other tickets on the main floor are selling for $172 each.
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Old 09-08-2017, 06:42 AM   #3 (permalink)
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Who does she think she is? Her husband did a signing just up the street for free a few years ago. I think it was ticketed (and no personalizations) but the tickets were free.

Other authors do free signings all the time. I have a couple of pics with me and Michio Kaku at one.

I did miss the Rachel Maddow one (still grumbling). After buying the book at the bookstore it was scheduled for it got moved to a site the general public did not have access to.
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Old 09-08-2017, 07:23 AM   #4 (permalink)
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"What Happened?" could be summarized in one word, "Democrats."

A more poignant telling could bring up issues like Democratic neoliberalism, the embrace of the professional class and the large scale abandonment of the working class, of talking out of both sides of their mouths for years about the plight of the worker while making every effort to play by the conservative playbook of pushing more and more wealth into the hands of Wall Street, bailouts and a failure to prosecute the worst actors of the financial crisis, of endless war and spending the blood of the workers of America in pointless foreign wars.

Blame Bernie, blame Comey, blame whoever, but the Democrats exposed themselves in the last election in ways that they never had before. They've given up progressive ideals except in the most cynical sense insofar as they'll support the idea of egalitarianism and democracy as long as it gets them votes but once in its back to the Military Industrial Complex and Big Everything.

Frankly, the Clintons need to shut up and go away.

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Not everyone was so charitable. Even some of Clinton’s allies have grown weary of her insistence on re-litigating the 2016 campaign at a time when the Democratic Party is looking to forge a new identity in the age of Trump.
“The best thing she could do is disappear,” said one former Clinton fundraiser and surrogate who played an active role at the convention. “She’s doing harm to all of us because of her own selfishness. Honestly, I wish she’d just shut the f--- up and go away.”
Since her loss, Clinton has taken fire from both sides of the aisle for what’s seen as her refusal to acknowledge her own role in her campaign’s defeat.
http://thehill.com/homenews/campaign...ates-democrats
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Old 09-08-2017, 07:41 AM   #5 (permalink)
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Yes, whether or not the allegations were true does not really matter, it is all about the perception of her and that is the battleground she has to play on. That is politics and she should have learned it by now.

As to the D party .... well, partly thanks to her they have lost the liberals. For decades it has been 'vote with us or you will get the big bad'. Well, we did and we got the big bad anyway. So what are they going to threaten us with now? Telling our moms?

Because of Clinton and Donnie we might be seeing the decay of *both* major parties in the next few years.
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Old 09-08-2017, 08:34 AM   #6 (permalink)
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At least she said she isn't going to run again. Whine, whine.

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Old 09-08-2017, 08:37 AM   #7 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Kara Spengler View Post
Yes, whether or not the allegations were true does not really matter, it is all about the perception of her and that is the battleground she has to play on. That is politics and she should have learned it by now.

As to the D party .... well, partly thanks to her they have lost the liberals. For decades it has been 'vote with us or you will get the big bad'. Well, we did and we got the big bad anyway. So what are they going to threaten us with now? Telling our moms?

Because of Clinton and Donnie we might be seeing the decay of *both* major parties in the next few years.
Well, I can agree with that. Trump has demonstrated it even moreso than Romney did, the Republicans are functionally dysfunctional on a Federal level. Less so on the State level though where they seem to kill it.
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Old 09-08-2017, 10:00 AM   #8 (permalink)
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Bernie Sanders Ruthlessly Sums Up ‘What Happened’ To Hillary Clinton

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“Look, Secretary Clinton ran against the most unpopular candidate in the history of this country and she lost and she was upset about it and I understand that,” he said. “But our job is really not to go backwards. It is to go forwards.”
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Old 09-08-2017, 10:17 AM   #9 (permalink)
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I saw the CNN thing on this, and she was claiming [in the book] how she had all these bold proposals and Bernie 'one-upped' her. Except, when people were already fighting for 15 an hour in states, for her to say 'we can't do that, what about 12 an hour?' there is nothing bold about that. And when an old friend backs Bernie instead of her, as being the better candidate, then maybe there is a reason?

That said, I think she's smart, knowledgeable, capable; I don't think she ever had the charisma to win the public heart. She's just not an orator, which is why she lost to Obama too.
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Old 09-08-2017, 10:23 AM   #10 (permalink)
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I think that partially to blame was that no reasonably sane person on the planet really believed America would elect trump, and figured Hillary had this, and didn't bother to vote. Even trump couldn't believe he won on election night, that was shock and surprise all over his face. And fear. Definitely fear.
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Old 09-08-2017, 10:56 AM   #11 (permalink)
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She needs to leave electoral politics and also stop writing books that are not helpful to the Democratic Party.

She was completely out of touch with most of the people in the rust belt, and the Democratic Party elite is as well. She has no connection with rural voters, and if the Democratic Party is going to ever win back the Congress and the presidency it has to spread votes out far enough to win. It has to do something to develop rural votes.

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Old 09-08-2017, 11:38 AM   #12 (permalink)
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These two articles are a good discussion.

Hillary Clinton is right about why she lost. But... - CNNPolitics

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She had every reason to understand how powerful Trump's emotional appeals to anger and resentment were -- and to find ways to match them with emotions of her own. Instead, she ran a campaign that felt largely emotionless. (Clinton acknowledges in the book that she was never able to fully express her feelings and emotions during the campaign.)
And Clinton should have also known that simply running the conventional campaign playbook against Trump would never do. The assumption that what didn't work against Trump in a Republican primary would suddenly work in a general election was not only misguided but obviously so. The message voters were sending -- in the Republican and Democratic primaries -- was that they wanted change and that the old ways of doing things wouldn't cut it. To conclude anything other than that Trump was a totally unique candidate who required a totally unique approach to beat ran directly contrary to all available evidence.
Clinton should have known all of that. That she didn't speaks to why she lost as much as does the campaign Trump ran.
and

What Hillary Clinton still doesn't understand about Bernie Sanders - CNNPolitics

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Anyway, I'm struck right off the bat by how little nuance there is in Clinton's assessment. For such a smart, savvy and accomplished person, she comes off as weirdly blinkered. These paragraphs are pretty narrowly composed and make no real account for why Sanders was so popular. Perhaps it's comforting to dismiss his popularity and, implicitly, the desires/frustrations of his supporters, as being rooted in the desire for free ponies or "magic abs." But that really undersells the issue at the heart of this.
Sanders was, of course, coming at this campaign from a very different angle. By his and his aides' own admission, they were surprised at how quickly a movement-based candidacy turned into an electorally viable one. But even then, he was pitching a fundamentally different view of politics. Now, you can dismiss that as unreasonable or unlikely to happen, but it's a losing strategy, in broad terms, to quit the conversation there.
Did America want a pony? Perhaps. Though I'd say Americans were and are frustrated by their debt and economic inequality and medical bills, etc. Essentially saying that their desire for relief was wishful (and frankly, silly) puts a pretty fine point on her shortcomings a candidate.
and
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Here's a question: Where are you on the "his attacks caused lasting damage" argument? A lot of Sanders people will say that, if anything, he pulled punches.
Cillizza: Absolutely not!
I agree with Sanders' people who say he pulled punches. He refused to ever talk about her email server which was, literally, a hanging curveball that he could smash out of the park. And, on her speech-giving to massive corporations -- including Goldman Sachs -- Sanders went WAY easier than he could have if he wanted to portray Clinton as a corporate shill.
Hillary Clinton lost because she was never the "heart" candidate of the activist base, because she never grasped what the email server really meant to people (that the Clintons think the rules don't apply, that the Clintons think they are deserve different treatment), because of James Comey announcing the re-opening of the email investigation, because of WikiLeaks/Russia and mostly because she was the status quo candidate in a change election. But, she definitely didn't lose because of Bernie Sanders.
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Old 09-08-2017, 12:01 PM   #13 (permalink)
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I agree that she and Bill need to get off the stage, now. But it's also important to remember that she still won the popular vote, which drives Donald nuts, and came within a few percentage points in some rust belt states of also winning the electoral college.

And all that with a seriously flawed, weak candidate who had been under constant personal attack for 35 years by the Right. PLUS, being a woman probably cost her more votes than we can ever calculate.

I wonder how Trump would have fared if his Russian and mob ties had been under Congressional investigation as many times as Hillary?

"What happened" is that the old system of leading with your richest, most visible candidate doesn't always work. It didn't work with Hillary. And at this point, I only see a handful of viable Democrats in the headlines who could hope to win in '20 even though they're largely minorities and women.

I subscribe to party newsletters, and it seems to me that the most popular voice right now is a 76-year old man who the Right has already put into the "Socialist" box. Where's the fresh blood, the energizing ideas, the charisma needed to sweep up all those disenfranchised voters? It ain't Hillary, but I doubt it's Bernie, either.

She's already claimed she won't be a candidate, but I still want to see Liz.

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Old 09-08-2017, 12:19 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Hillary Clinton is somewhat akin to Stannis Baratheon. Competent, yet brittle and utterly lacking charisma. Although the analogy is not wholly correct in a few ways, notably that she was not entitled to anything and whereas that Westeros is not a democracy and Stannis was the legal heir to Robert Baratheon, the dynamic is largely the same.

Renly Baratheon was right that a King Stannis would not have had the love of the people and it would not have lasted. Alas, Stannis got rid of Renly and foolishly fought to hold on to everything and thus his chances perished when he rolled into Blackwater Bay.
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Old 09-08-2017, 01:24 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Kamala Harris Is A Goddamned DELIGHT. She Can Be U.S. American President Now?
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Old 09-08-2017, 01:48 PM   #16 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Merlynn D View Post
I think that partially to blame was that no reasonably sane person on the planet really believed America would elect drumpf, and figured Hillary had this, and didn't bother to vote. Even drumpf couldn't believe he won on election night, that was shock and surprise all over his face. And fear. Definitely fear.
Say what you want about her strategy but she (or any other candidate) should NEVER assume they will win!
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Old 09-08-2017, 01:49 PM   #17 (permalink)
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I supported Bernie in the primaries, but maybe he should remember that he, himself, LOST to the woman who lost to the most unpopular candidate in modern history. That doesn't really give a lot of room for him to throw a loss that she actually WON by 3 million votes, which was a historical popular vote win, in her face, now does it.

And from what I see on Unhack The Vote, I have doubts...as do many others...that she actually lost to anyone at all
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Old 09-08-2017, 01:56 PM   #18 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cindy Claveau View Post
I subscribe to party newsletters, and it seems to me that the most popular voice right now is a 76-year old man who the Right has already put into the "Socialist" box. Where's the fresh blood, the energizing ideas, the charisma needed to sweep up all those disenfranchised voters? It ain't Hillary, but I doubt it's Bernie, either.
Bernie is doing exactly what I would have hoped and pointing to various heirs to the throne. The main thing used against him is 'ooo .... socialist'. Well, the demographic that is afraid of socialism is getting older and newer voters are more often 'so?' if you try to use that as an argument. The facts are that he is getting older though, much as I would like him to be the next president he is not getting any younger.
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Old 09-08-2017, 02:07 PM   #19 (permalink)
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I supported Bernie in the primaries, but maybe he should remember that he, himself, LOST to the woman who lost to the most unpopular candidate in modern history. That doesn't really give a lot of room for him to throw a loss that she actually WON by 3 million votes, which was a historical popular vote win, in her face, now does it.

And from what I see on Unhack The Vote, I have doubts...as do many others...that she actually lost to anyone at all
That title was clickbait. He spoke plainly and truthfully, he wasn't "ruthless" about anything. Yes, he lost to her, for many legitimate reasons due to how the Democratic Party operates. But he's not the one throwing shade. She's the one being petty, and again, he's not trying to do a smackdown when it would be so damned easy to do it.
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Old 09-08-2017, 04:51 PM   #20 (permalink)
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Quote:
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...
As to the D party .... well, partly thanks to her they have lost the liberals. For decades it has been 'vote with us or you will get the big bad'. Well, we did and we got the big bad anyway. So what are they going to threaten us with now? Telling our moms?

Because of Clinton and Donnie we might be seeing the decay of *both* major parties in the next few years.

Well, I would actually call them the real liberals, in the real sense of the word, or the liberal side of Dems, as opposed to Social Democrats.
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Old 09-08-2017, 04:53 PM   #21 (permalink)
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The progressive potential of Kamala Harris

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e California senator Kamala Harris has been in office for eight months, but she’s already one of the more visible Democrats emerging in the wake of the party’s leadership void. Long touted as a future star of the party, she’s been embraced by liberal Democrats and has been a target of the socialist and progressive left, owing to a questionable record as attorney general and her connections to the donor class.

But last week, Harris backed the forthcoming single-payer health care proposal from Sen. Bernie Sanders, a major endorsement for one of the left’s most coveted policy goals that has been rapidly picking up support in the Democratic base amid repeated threats of Obamacare repeal. And Harris’ decision to endorse the plan indicates that she and other Democratic hopefuls are being forced to acknowledge the growing American left as a constituency they’ll need to win elections.

It’s not hard to see why liberals, particularly those who supported Hillary Clinton last year, love Harris. [...]
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Old 09-08-2017, 04:54 PM   #22 (permalink)
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That title was clickbait. He spoke plainly and truthfully, he wasn't "ruthless" about anything. Yes, he lost to her, for many legitimate reasons due to how the Democratic Party operates. But he's not the one throwing shade. She's the one being petty, and again, he's not trying to do a smackdown when it would be so damned easy to do it.
I've read some of the excerpts. I didn't necessarily see"petty". Maybe you've read the whole book already so know more about it. I haven't, yet, so will reserve full judgement until I do. But let's just say that since the election, my opinion on Bernie has changed just a bit. Maybe it would be worth a little reflection on WHY he lost to Hillary when she was such a bad candidate.
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Old 09-08-2017, 05:37 PM   #23 (permalink)
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I've read some of the excerpts. I didn't necessarily see"petty". Maybe you've read the whole book already so know more about it. I haven't, yet, so will reserve full judgement until I do. But let's just say that since the election, my opinion on Bernie has changed just a bit. Maybe it would be worth a little reflection on WHY he lost to Hillary when she was such a bad candidate.
I have only seen the excerpts and I think it's petty. My opinion may change when I read the whole thing. I don't think he did "lasting damage" at all and I feel that that he did pull his punches. He didn't reveal any new information about her that people didn't already know or feel, and I doubt he changed any minds about her.
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Old 09-08-2017, 07:07 PM   #24 (permalink)
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Nina Turner is my preferred, but.... more because I think we need to keep all our progressive senators right where they are. Also, midwest is where we need to pull from right now, and well, Nina has a ton of charisma.
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Old 09-08-2017, 08:08 PM   #25 (permalink)
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Who does she think she is? Her husband did a signing just up the street for free a few years ago. I think it was ticketed (and no personalizations) but the tickets were free.

Other authors do free signings all the time. I have a couple of pics with me and Michio Kaku at one.

I did miss the Rachel Maddow one (still grumbling). After buying the book at the bookstore it was scheduled for it got moved to a site the general public did not have access to.
She's the same person she was when she married Bill.

Social climbing.*

Gold digging.

Political climbing.

Gold digging.

Yup. Sounds about right.


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