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Old 09-06-2017, 09:11 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Ryan describes proposal to fund govt "disgraceful", Trump approves it immediately

Speaking of cock blocking,

GOP livid after Trump cuts deal with Democrats

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President Donald Trump and Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell's tte--tte on Tuesday... lifted Republican hopes that the GOP was finally back in sync ahead of a brutal fall of fiscal deadlines.

Not 24 hours later, the president cut a deal with Democrats on a short-term debt ceiling increase opposed by McConnell and House Speaker Paul Ryan. Just Wednesday morning, in fact, Ryan had scoffed at the Democratic offer that Trump accepted minutes later.

In the aftermath, Republicans seethed privately and distanced themselves publicly from the deal.
Even though I don't agree with his stance on the debt ceiling and I am sure he is an ass, I kind of liked the GOP Congressman's quip about Trump:

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A three-month debt ceiling? Why not do a daily debt ceiling? cracked Rep. Mike Simpson (R-Idaho). Hes the best deal-maker ever. Dont you know? I mean, hes got a book out!
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Old 09-07-2017, 08:29 AM   #2 (permalink)
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Twitler is punishing Ryan and McConnell for not doing what he says, I'd wager
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Old 09-07-2017, 08:32 AM   #3 (permalink)
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I have no idea what the Democrats promised Trumples or dirt they dug to get him to flop over to their side so fast, buuuut gotta say Chuck Schumer had the smuggest smile on his face on the news yesterday. .
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Old 09-07-2017, 09:17 AM   #4 (permalink)
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I have no idea what the Democrats promised Trumples or dirt they dug to get him to flop over to their side so fast, buuuut gotta say Chuck Schumer had the smuggest smile on his face on the news yesterday. .
Probably nothing beyond the reminder that Ryan and OConnell couldn't get the health care packages passed, even through the R.

Mid Terms are also coming up and Ryan and crew most likely wanted to do it afterwards to try and hold seats (6 months puts us after the mid terms versus the 3 months which is right before).

Along with the idea that there is no controlling Trump or what Trump does or doesn't do. He does what he wants and needs no reason beyond "I can." to do it. And since the R's have been trying to push and control him....this is just another stick up their asses to remind them all that he's Trump. He does what he wants.

He's been pissing on the R's (especially Ryan and Oconnell) since the failed Health Care bill x2. And this is another way to slap them all in the face and say 'get in line with me or I go against you"

Over all, it doesn't really mean much until the deal is signed on a three month extension. Twitter in Chief changes his mind like the rest of us change underwear.

I'm not holding my breath (unless it was a signed deal and I missed it?)

even if it is signed...it still doesn't mean much. It's Trump.
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Old 09-07-2017, 03:15 PM   #5 (permalink)
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from a White House pov then a 3-month extension now (or any extension time) is about Texas

no presidency could ever afford to have a federal government shutdown over political posturing within the party of the presidency, given the devastation there

add Irma in to this and I wonder what any US President would be thinking when the legislative leadership of their own party was still posturing in a meeting called to address the very real urgency facing the country
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Old 09-07-2017, 03:25 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by irihapeti View Post
from a White House pov then a 3-month extension now (or any extension time) is about Texas

no presidency could ever afford to have a federal government shutdown over political posturing within the party of the presidency, given the devastation there

add Irma in to this and I wonder what any US President would be thinking when the legislative leadership of their own party was still posturing in a meeting called to address the very real urgency facing the country
You're assuming Trump is both sane, and aware that other people besides himself are actually 'real'. Given the extensive amount of observable evidence, I'm quite secure in going with the explanation that he did it simply so someone would say public nice things about him. Tomorrow he may do something in total opposition to today for exactly the same reason.
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Old 09-07-2017, 03:53 PM   #7 (permalink)
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You're assuming Trump is both sane, and aware that other people besides himself are actually 'real'. Given the extensive amount of observable evidence, I'm quite secure in going with the explanation that he did it simply so someone would say public nice things about him. Tomorrow he may do something in total opposition to today for exactly the same reason.
as an observer from the outside I think this is a dangerous sense of security. Mr Trump has been very consistent when viewed in a quite detached way

he wants to rid the USA of dark foreigners other than indentured servants who can be returned when no longer needed by business. This is happening

he wants to put out of sight people who are not straight heterosexual. This is happening

he wants to reduce regulation to make it simpler for business to make money. This is happening

he wants to rid the public service of unions. This is happening in the education sector through the push to privatise schools

he wants to reduce his business tax liabilities. Congress will give him this before the next election as it serves their own wants as well

he is also a narcissist. He wants, needs even, to be liked. He is consistent in this also
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Old 09-08-2017, 01:37 AM   #8 (permalink)
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You're assuming Trump is both sane, and aware that other people besides himself are actually 'real'. Given the extensive amount of observable evidence, I'm quite secure in going with the explanation that he did it simply so someone would say public nice things about him. Tomorrow he may do something in total opposition to today for exactly the same reason.
Not much he can do now, it has already flown through the Senate 80-17.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/senate-...dle-1504809070

Now Ryan has pretty much has to take a beating from his own party and get the House to pass it. Trump is an idiot, but even he knows and the people around him like Kelly certainly know that the government can not be viewed as dragging its feet when not one but two devastating hurricanes are about to endanger lives to wreck the US economy, especially in two red states.

The Democrats moved fast and gave him an option to get aid flowing and kick the debt ceiling can down the road for three months and he took it.
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Old 09-08-2017, 02:06 AM   #9 (permalink)
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Old 09-08-2017, 04:39 AM   #10 (permalink)
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he wants to rid the USA of dark foreigners other than indentured servants who can be returned when no longer needed by business. This is happening
he wants to put out of sight people who are not straight heterosexual. This is happening
he wants to reduce regulation to make it simpler for business to make money. This is happening
he wants to rid the public service of unions. This is happening in the education sector through the push to privatise schools
he wants to reduce his business tax liabilities. Congress will give him this before the next election as it serves their own wants as well
he is also a narcissist. He wants, needs even, to be liked. He is consistent in this also
There's a hell of an echo across the pond in this list, just substitute 'UK' for 'USA' and 'current Conservative Government' for 'he' (except Saint Theresa doesn't give a toss about 'being liked', as long as she can cling on to power).
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Old 09-08-2017, 08:01 AM   #11 (permalink)
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What were we saying again about 'pay back'....

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/906135414498631680

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/906136682952568832
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Old 09-08-2017, 08:13 AM   #12 (permalink)
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Excellent. Piss off the people who are in control of the impeachment process. Trump's biggest protection has been the unwillingness of Congressional Republicans to take his ethics and legal problems seriously. If he continues to work against them, that can change. Hell, Pence was at a meeting where obstruction of justice was discussed. Ryan is in spitting distance of the White House if he plays this right...
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Old 09-08-2017, 08:26 AM   #13 (permalink)
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Excellent. Piss off the people who are in control of the impeachment process. Trump's biggest protection has been the unwillingness of Congressional Republicans to take his ethics and legal problems seriously. If he continues to work against them, that can change. Hell, Pence was at a meeting where obstruction of justice was discussed. Ryan is in spitting distance of the White House if he plays this right...
Not sure what meeting your talking of with Pence but I have noticed that he's kept a pretty low profile since taking office in many, many things. Which I find interesting.

There are talks (aka: gossip, so I don't believe it myself) that they are considering to try and remove Ryan from Speaker position ASAP (probably do to him what they did to Boehner). Not holding my breath considering who else could be put in but since he's not required to hold congress office to be speaker, this doesn't actually surprise me, if true. Ironstache is closing the gap quickly on the race in WI (we'll see at voting time) and as I mentioned before....it's going to be *really* touchy for them to do a PR campaign against a Vet in the same way they've done it in the past. They have a thin following and my guess is that the R's following is sometimes just party following (versus actual person) and from people who don't want to cross party lines. But if they turn on a Vet like they have with others running against them (or even McCain for that matter), a young one at that and an unseasoned political one.....they may be in for a ride all across the states.
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Old 09-08-2017, 08:29 AM   #14 (permalink)
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They are already supposed to be managing the debt when they pass the budget. There is no reason whatsoever for having this extra step.
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Old 09-08-2017, 08:41 AM   #15 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by irihapeti View Post
from a White House pov then a 3-month extension now (or any extension time) is about Texas

no presidency could ever afford to have a federal government shutdown over political posturing within the party of the presidency, given the devastation there

add Irma in to this and I wonder what any US President would be thinking when the legislative leadership of their own party was still posturing in a meeting called to address the very real urgency facing the country
As I understand it, the Republican leadership in Congress wanted a much longer extension, eighteen months, to take them safely past the mid-term elections

They are so dismayed, and the Democrats in Congress so quietly delighted, because they now have to either negotiate a deal with the Democrats to get the budget passed or try to pass one with purely Republican support. To stand a chance of passing one with only Republican votes, they will have to bring the swivel-eyed loons of the Freedom Caucus and Tea Party on board, with toxic results for Republican prospects in the mid-terms, so they really have to try to do a deal with the Democrats.

However, at the same time they're trying to agree a set of budget proposals with the Democrats, they're going to be trying to put together a set of proposals for DACA, and tax reform, and possibly another stab at repealing and replacing Obamacare, which puts the Democrats in a very strong negotiating position in all these areas.
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Old 09-08-2017, 08:58 AM   #16 (permalink)
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As I understand it, the Republican leadership in Congress wanted a much longer extension, eighteen months, to take them safely past the mid-term elections

They are so dismayed, and the Democrats in Congress so quietly delighted, because they now have to either negotiate a deal with the Democrats to get the budget passed or try to pass one with purely Republican support. To stand a chance of passing one with only Republican votes, they will have to bring the swivel-eyed loons of the Freedom Caucus and Tea Party on board, with toxic results for Republican prospects in the mid-terms, so they really have to try to do a deal with the Democrats.

However, at the same time they're trying to agree a set of budget proposals with the Democrats, they're going to be trying to put together a set of proposals for DACA, and tax reform, and possibly another stab at repealing and replacing Obamacare, which puts the Democrats in a very strong negotiating position in all these areas.
The R's also have to bring in the normal conservatives to line as well. The one's that consistently vote against their lunacy (who's names, I can't remember) plus McCain - who has proven that he's a live wire right now. They could easily lose McCain if they decide to not properly fund the armed forces and by that, I don't necessarily mean a wall or build more ships. He's sketchy, I get that but I have a sneaky suspicion if the Congress Critters don't start taking care of our Vets....he's going to throw (possibly his last) ever shit storm on the party. I could be very wrong, but he seems to be heading that way.
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Old 09-08-2017, 09:09 AM   #17 (permalink)
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I love when Innula says, "as I understand it" and then proceeds to explain how US politics works better than most Americans can.

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Old 09-08-2017, 10:27 AM   #18 (permalink)
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House sends Harvey aid package to Trump with debt ceiling boost

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The House easily cleared a package Friday to provide more than $15 billion in disaster aid for victims of Hurricane Harvey, raise the debt ceiling and fund the government for three months.

President Donald Trump is expected to swiftly sign the bill, which delivered on the fiscal deal he struck with Democrats earlier this week. The House passed the bill 316-90, a day after the Senate passed it, 80-17.
That was fast.
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Old 09-08-2017, 11:28 AM   #19 (permalink)
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Not sure what meeting your talking of with Pence
Mueller examining Trump letter on Comey firing that contradicts statements by Pence, others - Chicago Tribune

tl:dr version: Pence was at a meeting with Trump and other senior officials where they discussed the draft letter Trump dictated that included the Russian investigation as part of the reason to fire Comey. If he had advance knowledge that the firing was related to the investigation in any way, and helped to craft a response that concealed that reason (and later publicly repeated that story) then Pence is in on the obstruction of justice.

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Old 09-08-2017, 01:45 PM   #20 (permalink)
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They are already supposed to be managing the debt when they pass the budget. There is no reason whatsoever for having this extra step.
It's actually even more complicated than that. The debt ceiling is like the limit on a credit card. It limits the total debt the Treasury Department is allowed to have outstanding at any time. When thy hit that limit, they aren't authorized to borrow more on the market, and thus can't write checks to pay the government's obligations. Like everyone else, they need money in their checking account to write checks. The Treasury's account happens to be at the Federal Reserve Bank of New York, which is also where the borrowing happens.

The budget process has two parts, authorization, and appropriation. Authorization sets a cap on spending for a department or agency, and for what purposes they are allowed to spend on. Appropriations is the actual shifting of funds from the general Treasury account to department/agency accounts for a particular fiscal year. As is going on with this story, Homeland Security is getting an increased appropriation to cover hurricane activities.

Just because an agency was *authorized* to spend X, doesn't mean they *have to*. If we had a quiet hurricane season, or Medicare's expenses came in low, they could spend less. Depending on how the authorization was written, unspent funds could carry over to the next year, or expire. Things like Navy ships take multiple years to build, so they typically authorize some number of new ships, with a total amount that is good until they finish. Other departments are funded year-to-year.

Why we have such a complicated and non-intuitive system is Congress is mostly made of lawyers, and not accountants, and they write their own rules.
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Old 09-08-2017, 01:47 PM   #21 (permalink)
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It's still unnecessary.
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Old 09-08-2017, 02:09 PM   #22 (permalink)
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It's still unnecessary.
You can say the same about half of what the US government does. So what else is new?
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Old 09-08-2017, 02:24 PM   #23 (permalink)
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Point is that it only exists to enable the GOP to play chicken with the budget. It's not actually a *useful* tool, like they pretend.
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Old 09-08-2017, 03:36 PM   #24 (permalink)
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me too

and Rolig and Whirly and Void and Dora and Qie to name only 5 more as the list is quite long really. I learn so much from them over the street over these last few years, and on here as well
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Old 09-08-2017, 05:22 PM   #25 (permalink)
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Point is that it only exists to enable the GOP to play chicken with the budget. It's not actually a *useful* tool, like they pretend.
The debt ceiling is 100 years old (i.e. World War I). It is only in recent years that it has become a political football. So it is not true it "only exists" for that reason. Republicans are just assholes.
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