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Old 08-08-2017, 09:33 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Precursor to World War III?

There's been a lot of sabre-rattling over the past several hours, and it's getting serious. Trump is promising North Korea "fire and fury and frankly power, the likes of which this world has never seen before" if they continue to threaten the US, and now Kim Jong Un is said to be exploring the possibility of attacking Guam.

North Korea now making missile-ready nuclear weapons, U.S. analysts say | Washington Post


North Korea says it is examining its plans for attacking Guam to contain U.S. bases there | Washington Post
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Old 08-08-2017, 10:44 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Someone on Twitter noted that, at first, they thought Trump's remarks came from Kim Jong Un. Same over-the-top bombast, same dangerous rhetoric.

Kim's goal is to establish his regime against what he perceives as American propensity for regime change. He may believe that he could win a war, but the first 24 hours of such a disaster will prove him horribly wrong and slaughter up to 2 million people on both sides.

But his bombast only triggers Trump's narcissistic bullying, which reacts strongly against any feeling that someone is trying to out-strong him. I see Trump's remarks as political grandstanding but dangerous as hell.

tl;dr this turned into a major pissing contest. Someone needs to pull it back.
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Old 08-08-2017, 10:51 PM   #3 (permalink)
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It also occurs to me that tomorrow is the 72nd anniversary of the nuclear attack on Nagasaki.

Atomic bomb dropped on Nagasaki - Aug 09, 1945 - HISTORY.com
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Old 08-09-2017, 12:20 AM   #4 (permalink)
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What do people think are the chances the military would refuse to follow the orange one's orders if he decided to strike North Korea, with or without nuclear bombs?
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Old 08-09-2017, 12:54 AM   #5 (permalink)
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What do people think are the chances the military would refuse to follow the orange one's orders if he decided to strike North Korea, with or without nuclear bombs?
None, but I'm sure several high ranking generals would have had quiet conversations with members of congress, and congress would rediscover it's "advise and consent" role which had lain dormant. There is no love for him in either party, so they'd block funding. The military (which *could* shift funds around to do anything it really wanted to do, such as help out the mother country the U.K.) would just sit back and watch the show. To put it another way, you should instead ask "Can Washington block Trump?" at which, the answer becomes obvious.

Trump would have to bankroll any operations on his own dime.
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Old 08-09-2017, 01:14 AM   #6 (permalink)
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Trump and Un are potentially the same person. They are far more alike than either of them would care to admit.
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Old 08-09-2017, 01:18 AM   #7 (permalink)
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Trump would have to bankroll any operations on his own dime.
It wouldn't take much of a bankroll. One bomb would be enough for North Korea to release the fire and fury it has.
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Old 08-09-2017, 02:05 AM   #8 (permalink)
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Well in case the world is gone before tomorrow. Goodbye everyone it's been nice to virtually meet you and rant in good company.

On the other hand, Trump and Un are both bullies and bullies are great at being loud and threatening but when they face someone who can actually hurt them they very rarely choose to fight.
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Old 08-09-2017, 02:21 AM   #9 (permalink)
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Old 08-09-2017, 02:44 AM   #10 (permalink)
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Trump and Un are potentially the same person. They are far more alike than either of them would care to admit.
Wasn't there a Bond movie where the villain was the son of a North Korean dictator and posing as a Western billionaire after undergoing extreme facial surgery?
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Old 08-09-2017, 11:22 AM   #11 (permalink)
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While only Congress can "declare war", the president does not need any permission from Congress to either launch a military action, or to use nuclear missiles. The constitution gives Trump the power to "direct the military at all times". Obama, Bush, Clinton, Reagan and even Carter have all launched military actions without seeking congressional approval.

Not to be a Debbie Downer, but there is a reason the Doomsday Clock got moved the closest it has been to Midnight since 1953.

Trump’s Warning To North Korea Called ‘Exactly Wrong’

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Bruce Blair, a nuclear safety expert at Princeton University, told HuffPost he’s worried about Trump’s leadership style, given the weapons at his disposal, and fears the risk of escalation to nuclear conflict “is growing by the day.”

“Trump has unchecked authority to order the use of conventional or nuclear weapons against North Korea,” Blair said. “I believe that both options are being prepared right now and that these preparations reflect the military’s acceptance of Trump’s authority to exercise either of them.”
Trump Evangelical Adviser: God Is Totally Cool With Nuking North Korea
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Old 08-09-2017, 11:33 AM   #12 (permalink)
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While only Congress can "declare war", the president does not need any permission from Congress to either launch a military action, or to use nuclear missiles. The constitution gives Trump the power to "direct the military at all times". Obama, Bush, Clinton, Reagan and even Carter have all launched military actions without seeking congressional approval.
Carter never launched any military actions, which is why he was not re-elected, even after all the good he did.

A rescue mission is not a military action, even if the military was involved.
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Old 08-09-2017, 11:54 AM   #13 (permalink)
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While only Congress can "declare war", the president does not need any permission from Congress to either launch a military action, or to use nuclear missiles.
Technically, we've never been at peace with North Korea either, since the Korean War ended with a truce. Not a peace treaty. As far as Pyongyang is concerned, the Korean was never ended.

Even if North Korea attacks our allies, there isn't time to wait for Congress to issue any declarations. By the time they voted on war, it would be over.

I only hope that the JCOS will act as a foil to any insanity coming from our "know nothing" President. There are events that should be triggers and provocations, but there are other events that should be handled with a calmer hand. Trump doesn't know the difference. This is all a pissing contest to him.
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Old 08-09-2017, 12:05 PM   #14 (permalink)
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https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/895252459152711680

Question: what exactly has Trump done to strengthen the US military?

The carrier Gerald R. Ford was laid down in 2005, years before Trump was elected. His budget proposal for increased military spending hasn't even reached the House floor, yet. So what has he done again?

I'm tired of getting nothing but hot air and squeaky farts from Donald.
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Old 08-09-2017, 01:01 PM   #15 (permalink)
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My first order as President was to renovate and modernize our nuclear arsenal. It is now far stronger and more powerful than ever before....
Renovate our nuclear arsenal? How the hell do you renovate a nuclear arsenal in 6 months?
Update the paint?
Upgrade to Windows 10?
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Old 08-09-2017, 01:04 PM   #16 (permalink)
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Renovate our nuclear arsenal? How the hell do you renovate a nuclear arsenal in 6 months?
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(d) Take credit for what your predecessor already started.
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Old 08-09-2017, 02:07 PM   #17 (permalink)
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Was an order to renovate and modernize our nuclear warfare offensive capability really Trump's first order?

















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Old 08-09-2017, 02:18 PM   #18 (permalink)
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Was an order to renovate and modernize our nuclear warfare offensive capability really Trump's first order?
No. He's just taking credit for what Obama already did.
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Old 08-09-2017, 02:46 PM   #19 (permalink)
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Was an order to renovate and modernize our nuclear warfare offensive capability really Trump's first order?

.
Nope it was to go golfing.
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Old 08-09-2017, 02:54 PM   #20 (permalink)
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Well, time to get started on my apocalypse playlist I guess.

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Old 08-09-2017, 03:31 PM   #21 (permalink)
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Considering he wants to eliminate the very department in charge of Nuclear Weapons [as well as all sorts of other energy things], I don't think those words mean what he thinks they do.
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Old 08-09-2017, 04:52 PM   #22 (permalink)
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Old 08-09-2017, 06:55 PM   #23 (permalink)
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Now NK is saying they could target the waters near Guam:

North Korea again threatens Guam with missile strike - Business Insider
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Old 08-09-2017, 07:19 PM   #24 (permalink)
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AUGUST 9th
Today is the anniversary of the bombing of Nagasaki, and we still haven't learned our lesson about the dangers of nuclear weapons.

If Trump really wants to honor the date, Today is also the anniversary of the resignation of President Nixon.
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Old 08-09-2017, 07:25 PM   #25 (permalink)
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Now NK is saying they could target the waters near Guam:

North Korea again threatens Guam with missile strike - Business Insider
This is what frightens me. I don't think Un has any qualms about doing this. I'm not sure it's only sabre rattling at this point - just pure insanity.
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