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Old 08-09-2017, 06:58 PM   #26 (permalink)
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They threaten Guam all the time, according to an NPR interview of someone living on Guam. No one there takes it seriously.
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Old 08-09-2017, 07:02 PM   #27 (permalink)
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They threaten Guam all the time, according to an NPR interview of someone living on Guam. No one there takes it seriously.
Maybe not, but since it was NK answer to Trump's promise that ANY future threats “will be met with fire and fury like the world has never seen.”

There is really nowhere to go from here.
Sooner or later one of the two buffoons is going to press a button.
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Old 08-09-2017, 07:12 PM   #28 (permalink)
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Old 08-09-2017, 07:13 PM   #29 (permalink)
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Carter never launched any military actions, which is why he was not re-elected, even after all the good he did.

A rescue mission is not a military action, even if the military was involved.
Actually, it is. When you use a rapid response strike force from the military for something called "Operation Eagle Claw", it may not be a "conflict" but it has been defined as a military action. There was also Operation Bright Star and a joint operation in 1979 in Zaire with Belgium and France.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeli...ary_operations

https://academic.evergreen.edu/g/gro...rventions.html

A Chronology Of U.s. Military Interventions | Give War A Chance | FRONTLINE | PBS

The main point being, Carter did not need anyone's permission, or even have to notify Congress. Neither would Trump, especially since we are technically already at war with North Korea.
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Old 08-09-2017, 07:39 PM   #30 (permalink)
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i watched that this morning.. even more an eye opener than my coffee
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Old 08-09-2017, 08:17 PM   #31 (permalink)
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i watched that this morning.. even more an eye opener than my coffee
This is a sad, sad statement about our education system. And with DeVos at the helm of the Department of Education, it can only get worse.
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Old 08-09-2017, 08:36 PM   #32 (permalink)
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I'm not a military sort, by any stretch of the imagination.

What's the state of the art in defending against ICBMs? Is it not possible to destroy them en route? (Not necessarily safely, but much moreso than once runaway fission begins)
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Old 08-09-2017, 08:56 PM   #33 (permalink)
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Is it bad that I find it amusing the only one to get anywhere near right was the punk dude in the Misfits shirt?

Meanwhile, I'm like, really? You think Canada is NK?!?!
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Old 08-09-2017, 09:18 PM   #34 (permalink)
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I'm not a military sort, by any stretch of the imagination.

What's the state of the art in defending against ICBMs? Is it not possible to destroy them en route? (Not necessarily safely, but much moreso than once runaway fission begins)
The Pentagon's first successful test of its ICBM defense was a little over two months ago.

Pentagon successfully tests ICBM defense system for first time | Reuters
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Old 08-09-2017, 09:31 PM   #35 (permalink)
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It's so infuriating that the white house blames Trump's fire and fury remark as some off the cuff remark he felt like saying at the time. That is a common excuse for domestic issues, but that kind of remark could very well end up in a war with hundreds of thousands of people dead.

Trump's 'fire and fury' North Korea remark surprised aides: officials
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Old 08-09-2017, 09:46 PM   #36 (permalink)
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I
Meanwhile, I'm like, really? You think Canada is NK?!?!
Haven't seen it yet, but totally not surprised.
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Old 08-09-2017, 10:07 PM   #37 (permalink)
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What's the state of the art in defending against ICBMs? Is it not possible to destroy them en route? (Not necessarily safely, but much moreso than once runaway fission begins)
Despite working on the problem since "Star Wars" in the 80s, we're still not close to an effective anti-missile defense. Our ABM treaty with Russia slowed things down a bit, but it comes down to being able to fire a bullet from one gun to hit a bullet fired from another gun. It's an extremely complex problem.

Can We Stop a Nuke? (2007)

In my (amateur) opinion, we won't have an effective anti-missile defense until we deploy powerful, lightweight ABM lasers and perhaps satellites armed with kinetic interception projectiles. The big problem there is that we're signatories to The Outer Space Treaty. Either we'll have to violate that treaty or some highly unusual event (like a war) comes along and makes the signatories invalidate the treaty
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Old 08-09-2017, 10:11 PM   #38 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Porsupah Ree View Post
I'm not a military sort, by any stretch of the imagination.

What's the state of the art in defending against ICBMs? Is it not possible to destroy them en route? (Not necessarily safely, but much moreso than once runaway fission begins)
It is possible to shoot an ICBM out of the air, so to speak. We've recently tested a missile defense system that does just that, so that's something.
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Old 08-09-2017, 10:20 PM   #39 (permalink)
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It is possible to shoot an ICBM out of the air, so to speak. We've recently tested a missile defense system that does just that, so that's something.
Last I read, it's the sort of thing that might work but is not to be relied on.
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Old 08-09-2017, 10:24 PM   #40 (permalink)
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Last I read, it's the sort of thing that might work but is not to be relied on.
This is true. But, for now, it's all we've got, so we have to hope that it works when needed. Of course, the best defense is to not get into a war in the first place, but between Kim's itchy trigger finger and Trump's diarrhea of the mouth, that may not be an option.
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Old 08-10-2017, 01:41 AM   #41 (permalink)
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Typical strategy to penetrate defenses for a nuclear strike is to launch a salvo that usually includes duds. Some of the missiles might get shot out of the sky, but some will definitely get through.

In the case of NK, they don't have the resources to fire a large salvo. Also, we are talking IRBMs (interregional), not ICBMs (intercontinental).

It would be much more efficient for them to stick a nuke inside a shipping container and deliver it to Seoul by truck.
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Old 08-10-2017, 02:50 AM   #42 (permalink)
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It is possible to shoot an ICBM out of the air, so to speak. We've recently tested a missile defense system that does just that, so that's something.
It is theoretically possible to shoot an enemy's ICBM out of the air.

It is also theoretically possible to hit another country on target with one's own ICBM.

Besides that.. we have to fat fools with buttons.
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Old 08-10-2017, 03:11 AM   #43 (permalink)
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It wasn’t just that the tone and rhetoric were dangerously dumb and wrong; it was that the grownups had no idea it was coming. As The Weekly Standard reported, “The White House, including the national-security team, was unaware President Trump was preparing to speak publicly about North Korea when he did so Tuesday at his golf club in Bedminster, New Jersey.”
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Old 08-10-2017, 03:15 AM   #44 (permalink)
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I don't feel like anything our president says is really the truth.
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Old 08-10-2017, 03:21 AM   #45 (permalink)
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I don't feel like anything our president says is really the truth.
Oh, I think he was telling the truth when he hinted he wanted to screw his daughter.
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Old 08-10-2017, 06:57 AM   #46 (permalink)
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Today is the anniversary of the bombing of Nagasaki, and we still haven't learned our lesson about the dangers of nuclear weapons.
The rest of us learned it. Donnie, well ..... he is Donnie.
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Old 08-10-2017, 07:18 AM   #47 (permalink)
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This is a sad, sad statement about our education system. And with DeVos at the helm of the Department of Education, it can only get worse.
Yes, I generally consider myself good at geography. Pre-tea though I simply could not remember which of 2 Asian peninsulas had Vietnam vs the Koreas. Someone had mentioned on the news something about them hitting Australia with a missile (rather than saying the more obvious Japanese target, or even Hawaii) and that random thought screwed my navigation up. I have 0 explanation for the people that pointed to Canada though.

Anyway, that is the result of the education system in the 70s/80s. In a state that now ranks as the best education system. I do not even want to know what the national average will be like after a few years of this administration.
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Old 08-10-2017, 07:31 AM   #48 (permalink)
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It would be much more efficient for them to stick a nuke inside a shipping container and deliver it to Seoul by truck.
I am actually surprised that has yet to happen at least once somewhere since WW2. The bomb part of a simple 1st generation bomb is pretty straightforward, all you need to do is somehow acquire the fissionable material.

Even more surprising is we have yet to have a dirty bomb go off (not counting finding them or accidents that did the same thing). All they are is a conventional bomb that scatters already radioactive material (like dirt near a test site maybe).
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Old 08-10-2017, 08:41 AM   #49 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Porsupah Ree View Post
I'm not a military sort, by any stretch of the imagination.

What's the state of the art in defending against ICBMs? Is it not possible to destroy them en route? (Not necessarily safely, but much moreso than once runaway fission begins)
It's technically possible.

I can shoot birds out of the air in flight too, but you definitely would not want to be anywhere downrange of me if I ever tried it.
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Old 08-10-2017, 10:53 AM   #50 (permalink)
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Typical strategy to penetrate defenses for a nuclear strike is to launch a salvo that usually includes duds. Some of the missiles might get shot out of the sky, but some will definitely get through.

In the case of NK, they don't have the resources to fire a large salvo. Also, we are talking IRBMs (interregional), not ICBMs (intercontinental).
One of the first math problems scientists solved was telling the difference between a real warhead and a much lighter decoy -- their flight trajectories are different. Sure, you could weight them the same if you wanted to spend the money, but why not just make it a real nuke instead of a decoy?

For your second point, estimates place DPRK's arsenal at around 20 nukes. None have been mounted in missiles yet, that we know of. Maybe they'll use FedEx?
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