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Old 08-03-2017, 06:22 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Mueller impanels grand jury

Mueller taps Washington grand jury in Russia probe - POLITICO

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Special counsel Robert Mueller has tapped a Washington grand jury for his Russia investigation, a key procedural step as he looks into potential collusion between President Donald Trump’s 2016 campaign and Russia, three sources familiar with the investigation said.

The sources said Mueller was now leaning on a closed-door panel housed at the federal courthouse on Constitution Avenue — just blocks from FBI headquarters and the Capitol — to present evidence, question witnesses and issue subpoenas for business and financial records as part of his expanding probe.
And relatedly:

Senators launch bipartisan effort to ensure Trump cannot fire Mueller | The Guardian

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US senators from both parties are seeking to protect the special counsel Robert Mueller from being fired by Donald Trump, marking the first bipartisan bid by lawmakers to impose a check on the president against the backdrop of the Russia investigation.

A pair of bills were unveiled on Thursday, co-sponsored by both Republicans and Democrats in the Senate, that would take measures to bar the president from directly firing the special counsel investigating Russian interference in the 2016 US election and any involvement by the president and his team.
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Old 08-03-2017, 06:56 PM   #2 (permalink)
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And they say Trump supporters have no sense of humor! I don't know whence this came, but I'd guess that sub..

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Old 08-03-2017, 07:13 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Agh, poor form, I know, to keep adding to one's own thread, but this Twitter thread explains what's happened, and the actual significance:

Twitter
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Old 08-03-2017, 07:44 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Porsupah Ree View Post
Agh, poor form, I know, to keep adding to one's own thread, but this Twitter thread explains what's happened, and the actual significance:

https://twitter.com/SethAbramson/sta...06561316909056
I'm a fan of Seth's threads. No bullshit, no drama and no reason to doubt like you have with the Louise Mensch crowd. So I always place a lot of stock in waht he says.
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Old 08-03-2017, 08:27 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Porsupah Ree View Post
Agh, poor form, I know, to keep adding to one's own thread, but this Twitter thread explains what's happened, and the actual significance:

https://twitter.com/SethAbramson/sta...06561316909056
That was very informative!
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Old 08-03-2017, 09:49 PM   #6 (permalink)
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I have this fantasy of Trump being subpoenaed and having to go into the Grand Jury room alone (no defense lawyers are allowed) where he can't even stick to the 5th Amendment card he was given but is triggered by Mueller or one of the jurers to go so wildly off script that he incriminates himself and all of his staff.

Pleaseohpleaseoplease!!!!!
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Old 08-03-2017, 11:20 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Cindy Claveau View Post
I have this fantasy of Trump being subpoenaed and having to go into the Grand Jury room alone (no defense lawyers are allowed) where he can't even stick to the 5th Amendment card he was given but is triggered by Mueller or one of the jurers to go so wildly off script that he incriminates himself and all of his staff.

Pleaseohpleaseoplease!!!!!
I don't think it's a slam-dunk, but I think it's enormously possible that would happen. Especially if Trump really, truly believes he has the power to pardon himself - or thinks nothing he did was illegal (i.e because he's the prez).
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Old 08-03-2017, 11:23 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Porsupah Ree View Post
Agh, poor form, I know, to keep adding to one's own thread, but this Twitter thread explains what's happened, and the actual significance:

https://twitter.com/SethAbramson/sta...06561316909056
Dammit, quit updating your thread with relevant, helpful, informative, additional information, you jerk!!

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Old 08-03-2017, 11:25 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Trump (in an apoplectic moment): I CAN'T HANDLE THE TRUTH!!!
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Old 08-03-2017, 11:42 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Trump (in yet another in a seeminglly endless series of whiny, apoplectic moments): I CAN'T HANDLE THE TRUTH!!!
Tuned that up a little....
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Old 08-04-2017, 01:01 AM   #11 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dakota Tebaldi View Post
I don't think it's a slam-dunk, but I think it's enormously possible that would happen. Especially if Trump really, truly believes he has the power to pardon himself - or thinks nothing he did was illegal (i.e because he's the prez).
I think that's why he's going to spend the next weeks holed up with his lawyers in his private lair.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...take-vacations
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Old 08-04-2017, 03:08 PM   #12 (permalink)
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I'll just drop this here - it is Daily KOS, but it has an interesting update at the end.

https://www.dailykos.com/stories/201...tail=emaildkre
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Old 08-05-2017, 07:10 AM   #13 (permalink)
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I highly doubt they will get Trump himself will have to go in front of the grand jury. A prosecutor will seldom bring the person being targeted in front of the grand jury.

That said, since we now have a grand jury in place, it is going to take a long time but someone very close to Trump is very likely to be charged with something very serious. Rightfully or wrongfully, the phrase that a good prosecutor with a grand jury can "indict a ham sandwich" will still apply.
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Old 08-05-2017, 11:27 AM   #14 (permalink)
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I highly doubt they will get Trump himself will have to go in front of the grand jury. A prosecutor will seldom bring the person being targeted in front of the grand jury.
We don't know anything about the case Mueller is building or the evidence he is accumulating. That said, Bill Clinton sat for a Grand Jury and all he did was have sex with his intern (and lied about it).
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Old 08-05-2017, 11:30 AM   #15 (permalink)
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We don't know anything about the case Mueller is building or the evidence he is accumulating.
Anyone here taking bets on it yet?
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Old 08-05-2017, 11:56 AM   #16 (permalink)
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Anyone here taking bets on it yet?
My bet is that he's been 2-4 weeks ahead of the news cycle all along. When Trump warned him about looking at family finances, it was probably because his men had been nosing around for weeks, already.
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Old 08-05-2017, 03:27 PM   #17 (permalink)
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Anyone here taking bets on it yet?
Based on what I know about Trump's past, I expect them to find dirty money in his various businesses. That could be domestic organized crime, or foreign money using his real estate as a laundromat. I also think it is more likely than not they will find evidence of election interference.
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Old 08-06-2017, 01:37 AM   #18 (permalink)
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Quote:
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I highly doubt they will get Trump himself will have to go in front of the grand jury. A prosecutor will seldom bring the person being targeted in front of the grand jury.

That said, since we now have a grand jury in place, it is going to take a long time but someone very close to Trump is very likely to be charged with something very serious. Rightfully or wrongfully, the phrase that a good prosecutor with a grand jury can "indict a ham sandwich" will still apply.
It's possible he could be called to testify, but I'd say at this point it's probably more likely people close to him will be called in & eventually indicted, in order to leverage them to turn on Trump.
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Old 08-06-2017, 06:12 AM   #19 (permalink)
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Ken Starr on Mueller Probe: We Donít Want Prosecutors Out on a Fishing Expedition


HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!
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Old 08-06-2017, 10:13 PM   #20 (permalink)
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Fishing Expedition? Fishing? Hell, who needs to fish? They're just jumping into the boat!
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Old 08-06-2017, 10:55 PM   #21 (permalink)
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Based on what I know about Trump's past, I expect them to find dirty money in his various businesses. That could be domestic organized crime, or foreign money using his real estate as a laundromat. I also think it is more likely than not they will find evidence of election interference.
Then there's hiring prostitutes to pee on beds.
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Old 08-07-2017, 01:12 AM   #22 (permalink)
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Fishing Expedition? Fishing? Hell, who needs to fish? They're just jumping into the boat!
Man fer real.
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Old 08-07-2017, 01:01 PM   #23 (permalink)
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Then there's hiring prostitutes to pee on beds.
If he did it in Russia, it's not a crime in the US that Mueller can take to the grand jury. It *would* be a blackmail risk, which for normal people would disallow getting a security clearance.
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Old 08-07-2017, 01:30 PM   #24 (permalink)
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Old 08-08-2017, 08:19 PM   #25 (permalink)
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Here's a rather nice analysis of Mueller's team, and exactly why it's probably so significant that he's chosen people with the specific specialties they offer:

Robert Mueller's Grand Jury and the Significance of Felix Sater - emptywheel

It doesn't really lend itself to being excerpted, but it's worth the read.
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