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Old 08-10-2017, 05:04 PM   #351 (permalink)
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Balderdash, I say!
Tommyrot, poppycock and horsefeathers! Or balls.
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Old 08-10-2017, 05:14 PM   #352 (permalink)
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Sales of comic books have INCREASED almost every year for the last decade

Report: Comic Sales Grew 6% In 2016 To Hit $1.085 Billion




If you look at the top 100 titles for March, based on total unit sales, the titles are far from diverse and are the more traditional type of characters. I can't help but wonder if, where you once had comic books inspiring movies, the tail is now wagging the dog anf the movies are now pushing the comics. I am just thinking out loud. Maybe Marvell has swung too far in its effort to be diverse, or maybe their are a dozen other factors playing out for Marvel. There's certainly a niche market for more diverse characters, but sales will decide if the market is ready for them to enter the mainstream. That is one nice thing about the free market, you know pretty fast whether something is working or not, just ask the people who created New Coke and Pepsi Clear.

As for the milkshake girl, I thought of her as I read about Taylor Swift's court appearance today. She is in court today defending herself after being groped UNDER her skirt by a DJ. She is also getting blasted on Facebook, a cacophony of hate and stupidity that she endures from both men and women on a daily basis. Pretty, white, talented and successful is a dangerous mix these days and she has learned to take it in stride and our milkshake girl, if she is going to put herself out their to the general public, which consists of many idiots, will have to learn to do the same. I would assume that she has a job doing something she loves. It does not get much better than that.
That graph includes both graphic novels and comics though. And the increased popularity of the graphic novel or trade paperback format is indeed one of the problem that they are facing for the sale of their monhtly comics issues.
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Old 08-11-2017, 01:00 AM   #353 (permalink)
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Comics have almost always been at the leading edge of social justice. They are not perfect, just look at the outfits of female characters. That scene with GL and GA was on a documentary dealing with the topic.
I was going to say something along these lines when I got back to these forums. Anyone not thinking that comic books have always had a big progressive line needs to think about how: The entire industry was basically created by disenfranchised jewish men in the 40's.

AND THE FUCKING X-MEN EXIST AND THEIR ENTIRE MESSAGE IS BLASTING RACISM.

Holy crap. They don't even bother with subtext. This shit ain't hard yo.

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That graph includes both graphic novels and comics though. And the increased popularity of the graphic novel or trade paperback format is indeed one of the problem that they are facing for the sale of their monhtly comics issues.
I've been saying for years that the graphic novel is the endgame for comics. Monthly trades are too expensive and hard to follow due to renumberings etc etc. Graphic novels with self contained story arcs for your favorite super heroes is THE way to purchase. It's cheaper, and you get a decent sized bite of content each go.
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Old 08-11-2017, 06:02 AM   #354 (permalink)
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I just picked up the trade for last years Kim&Kim yesterday. It is pretty clearly marked as volume 1. The monthly on the other hand .... "issue 1" is just that, it does not contain the volume number. Unless you know what the cover looks like there is no good way to tell if it is last year's #1 or this year's. The renumbering craze must be recent though, this was the first time I encountered it.
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Old 08-11-2017, 10:21 AM   #355 (permalink)
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Old 08-11-2017, 11:46 AM   #356 (permalink)
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That graph includes both graphic novels and comics though. And the increased popularity of the graphic novel or trade paperback format is indeed one of the problem that they are facing for the sale of their monthly comics issues.
Ok, if we are actually differentiating between a "comic book" and a "graphic novel" I am going to have to exit. As I have said, I have not seen a comic book in at least 4 years and that kind of level of nerdom is far beyond my reach. No since in me trying to add to a discussion of something I don't understand.

Check out The Cars debut album though~
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Old 08-11-2017, 05:57 PM   #357 (permalink)
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Ok, if we are actually differentiating between a "comic book" and a "graphic novel" I am going to have to exit. As I have said, I have not seen a comic book in at least 4 years and that kind of level of nerdom is far beyond my reach. No since in me trying to add to a discussion of something I don't understand.

Check out The Cars debut album though~
A graphic novel is 4-5 comic books stapled together with concept art pages at the end.
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Old 08-11-2017, 08:09 PM   #358 (permalink)
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A graphic novel is 4-5 comic books stapled together with concept art pages at the end.
That's a gross oversimplification and sounds more like a trade paperback. It's typically one large story, usually self-contained, that may be that size but they can be bigger. It's not always canon, either. The Dark Knight, or X-Men: God Loves Man Kills or Days of Future Past are better examples of what a Graphic Novel is.
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Old 08-12-2017, 12:40 AM   #359 (permalink)
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Do I try to understand the difference between a comic and a graphic novel, or do I conclude that it's all beyond me. And was Stardust an example of a graphic novel or of comics?
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Old 08-12-2017, 12:45 AM   #360 (permalink)
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And was Stardust an example of a graphic novel or of comics?
https://www.sfsite.com/columns/hank256.htm

Kinda both.
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Old 08-12-2017, 12:51 AM   #361 (permalink)
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Do I try to understand the difference between a comic and a graphic novel, or do I conclude that it's all beyond me. And was Stardust an example of a graphic novel or of comics?
Think of Dickens and other writers of his time. ^_^ His works were often published in installments. Later, as complete works. Likewise with comics. ^_^

Of course, that gets fuzzy at times, especially with webcomics - Wapsi Square comes to mind, with the first main arc taking something like nine years to complete. (Don't try hopping in - go from the start, else you'll never understand, beside missing out on quite the epic ride, as it gently mutates from an amusingly normal slice-of-life strip into something rather different)
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Old 08-12-2017, 01:03 AM   #362 (permalink)
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I thought the thing on the left was a comic and the one on the right was a graphic novel just because of their spine. I'm probably wildly misinformed.

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Old 08-12-2017, 07:12 AM   #363 (permalink)
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We still have a comic store. There used to be two but the one that opened back in the 90s closed a few years ago.

The market's just not there, unsurprisingly. Part of the appeal of comics was always that they were relatively cheap. Back in the 80's I could get 8-12 of them for the price of a paperback book. Now? 2-4 for one. And that's new. Even the used book stores are struggling now and they've done more business than the new ones, most years.

Of course we lost all but the last non-used bookstore years ago. Barnes & Noble is still hanging on by the skin of it's teeth.

People are moving to downloadable en masse. It's also tough to get cassette tapes here too, and is getting harder to get CDs. Welcome to the modern age.
We have one remaining comic book store here as well. There is a little one here, about 13 or 14, and she loves comics. I tried taking her to the local comic book store, and she felt very uncomfortable. The posters and displays feature barely clothed, sexualized women, and she does not want to go back to the store. The local store has created an environment that focuses on one specific group of people and limits its potential customer base. The little one now focuses on web based comics.

With respect to all the SJW stuff in the comics, I have to agree that it is a problem, and they have gone too far. For example, I used to really like Spider Man, but once they started in with all that nonsense about great powers and responsibility nonsense I just tuned it out. Same thing with the x-men. As soon as they started grinding on and on about mutants and societal pressures to conform it really lost its edge.
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Old 08-12-2017, 09:19 AM   #364 (permalink)
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Of course, that gets fuzzy at times, especially with webcomics - Wapsi Square comes to mind, with the first main arc taking something like nine years to complete. (Don't try hopping in - go from the start, else you'll never understand, beside missing out on quite the epic ride, as it gently mutates from an amusingly normal slice-of-life strip into something rather different)
Aye, the line between the two is a varying grey gradient and is usually ill defined.

And love Wapsi Square. One of the best out there. But yeas, start from the front. It's a hair raising ride at times but is definitely worth it.

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Old 08-12-2017, 09:39 AM   #365 (permalink)
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We have one remaining comic book store here as well. There is a little one here, about 13 or 14, and she loves comics. I tried taking her to the local comic book store, and she felt very uncomfortable. The posters and displays feature barely clothed, sexualized women, and she does not want to go back to the store. The local store has created an environment that focuses on one specific group of people and limits its potential customer base. The little one now focuses on web based comics.

With respect to all the SJW stuff in the comics, I have to agree that it is a problem, and they have gone too far. For example, I used to really like Spider Man, but once they started in with all that nonsense about great powers and responsibility nonsense I just tuned it out. Same thing with the x-men. As soon as they started grinding on and on about mutants and societal pressures to conform it really lost its edge.
The local shop wasn't as bad for that as some I've seen. At least not the last time I was in it. It's been a long time though. '12 or so, I think.

The people who ran it were pretty well anchored and had little use for the fringiest of the crowd.
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Old 08-12-2017, 02:23 PM   #366 (permalink)
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Ok, if we are actually differentiating between a "comic book" and a "graphic novel" I am going to have to exit. As I have said, I have not seen a comic book in at least 4 years and that kind of level of nerdom is far beyond my reach. No since in me trying to add to a discussion of something I don't understand.

Check out The Cars debut album though~
No worries It's just a bit important when it comes to the business side of comics.

Basically, from the independent writers/artists/publishers I talk to, when you have single issues you have a monhtly source of income and it takes about a month to finish the work on it anyway. While a graphic novel can take half a year to even more than a year to finish, like a regular novel. With no income during that time. And the issue there is that unlike with a regular book, even if the writer is willing to wait that long: his artist, his inker, his colorist, etc still need to be paid as well.

still think those are practical issues that can be solved if the business looks at their model and thinks of creative new ways to handle it. But I fully can understand that it's causing them issues right now.
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Old 08-12-2017, 02:29 PM   #367 (permalink)
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Anyway, this is a webcomic I really love which is created by people who actually run a comics store and all the text in the comic is things they actually overheard in store

OUR VALUED CUSTOMERS

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Old 08-12-2017, 02:58 PM   #368 (permalink)
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I never really got into reading comics (my brothers refused to share) so I feel like I'm watching a tennis match in here. All the while wondering why people are "fighting" over comic books and graphic novels...


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Old 08-12-2017, 03:03 PM   #369 (permalink)
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All the while wondering why people are "fighting" over comic books and graphic novels...
It's just a nerd fight. So only a few ineffective slaps, at most.
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Old 08-12-2017, 03:07 PM   #370 (permalink)
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It's just a nerd fight. So only a few ineffective slaps, at most.
Last night, just before going to bed, I almost posted an image of Ogre chanting "NERDS! NERDS! NERDS!"




Almost.




My pillow was calling my name and I couldn't resist the call.
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Old 08-12-2017, 04:02 PM   #371 (permalink)
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We have one remaining comic book store here as well. There is a little one here, about 13 or 14, and she loves comics. I tried taking her to the local comic book store, and she felt very uncomfortable. The posters and displays feature barely clothed, sexualized women, and she does not want to go back to the store. The local store has created an environment that focuses on one specific group of people and limits its potential customer base. The little one now focuses on web based comics.
Not only is there the problem with the decor for a lot of these places, but before our local comic shopped moved and started having female management, the clientele was pretty horribad and I hated going in - its still not completely comfortable for me, but its not nearly so bad; maybe because I'm not the only chick in the joint.
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Old 08-12-2017, 04:08 PM   #372 (permalink)
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I never really got into reading comics (my brothers refused to share) so I feel like I'm watching a tennis match in here. All the while wondering why people are "fighting" over comic books and graphic novels...


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It's just a nerd fight. So only a few ineffective slaps, at most.
Not! This is an important distinction!!! Umm, now I forgot what my stance was on it, but it was IMPORTANT and FINAL!!!
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Old 08-12-2017, 04:19 PM   #373 (permalink)
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Aye, the line between the two is a varying grey gradient and is usually ill defined.


The Watchmen (and "The Dark Knight Returns" as well, if I remember right) were originally sold as single issues before being packaged as trades.
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Old 08-12-2017, 04:20 PM   #374 (permalink)
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Not! This is an important distinction!!! Umm, now I forgot what my stance was on it, but it was IMPORTANT and FINAL!!!
Nerds never forget so you're a geek not a nerd
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Old 08-12-2017, 05:17 PM   #375 (permalink)
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The Watchmen (and "The Dark Knight Returns" as well, if I remember right) were originally sold as single issues before being packaged as trades.
I would need to dig it out but I seem to remember the edition of WM I have has clear issue markers in it. Another good example is Walking Dead.

edit: Oh, and the supergirl and kim&kim trades I just read had obvious issue breaks as well. Supergirl was reformatted with new page numbers though.
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