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Old 07-17-2017, 09:20 AM   #1 (permalink)
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Curious: Did Nixon Have Rabid Supporters?

In light of folks staunchly remaining behind the man they voted for, even under overwhelming and burgeoning evidence, I started thinking about a scandal that broke in the 1970s with Richard Nixon.

We all _know_ the history. Nixon resigned, rather than be impeached. Ford ultimately pardoned him. All Water(gate) under the bridge. I was too young to remember anything from news during that era. I was at the age where cartoons held my interest over current events.

My question for those who do remember:

Did Nixon have rabid followers who didn't believe he did anything wrong? If so, do you have any newspaper clippings or other articles showing that a section of the population was as delusional as Trump supporters appear to be?

People interviewed in the SF Bay Area on KCBS (news channel) actually said, "I'm not concerned about the Russia thing because Trump is a great President." and "The Media is blowing this out of proportion. Trump is doing a great job." and "The stories about collusion were made up by Clinton. Arrest her instead."

Seriously. People said these things. In San Francisco, one of the most liberal areas in the country.

And it really got me thinking. Nixon had to have the same rabid following, yeah? After all, he was doing a credible job as President. More so than Trump, at any rate.

Is this a case of history repeating itself and even Nixon had supporters in the face of overwhelming evidence against him, or are Trump supporters really this delusional?
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Old 07-17-2017, 09:25 AM   #2 (permalink)
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I was only 12 in 1970. My recollection was there were lots of protests against Nixon and the war. As far as rabid supporters go, there were no huge rallies supporting Nixon. Keep in mind there was no internet then so people couldn't rant and rave like they do now. They mostly could just talk with their neighbors and with a few people they knew on the phone. Also, for most people, the news consisted of three tv stations and their local papers, which might have their left or right slants but mostly tried to be somewhat balanced.
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Old 07-17-2017, 09:35 AM   #3 (permalink)
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Actually there were networks then, so yeah, email and stuff. The internet was formed in the early 70s (I forgot the exact date) and before then it was the arpanet, which dated to the 60s. Dating precursors before that gets a bit nebulous as it depends what counts and what does not. The web did not created until 95 though.
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Old 07-17-2017, 09:42 AM   #4 (permalink)
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Actually there were networks then, so yeah, email and stuff. The internet was formed in the early 70s (I forgot the exact date) and before then it was the arpanet, which dated to the 60s. Dating precursors before that gets a bit nebulous as it depends what counts and what does not. The web did not created until 95 though.
That's irrelevant to the question though. There were around two people on the arpanet then. It wasn't something that affected your average household or the nation's view of or ability to talk about Nixon. I got my first access to the internet in 1990 and nobody had heard of it then. It wasn't until 1994 or 1995 that it became common knowledge.

Also, mosaic was created in 1992 as I recall.
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Old 07-17-2017, 09:54 AM   #5 (permalink)
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Universities and companies were hooked up in the 80s and early 70s. ISPs did not widely exist until the mid 90s but it was hardly hidden knowledge. If someone in your family was in college or working at a mid sized company odds are they were in an email group, on a BBS, or in a flame war on usenet.
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Old 07-17-2017, 10:02 AM   #6 (permalink)
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This was the entire 'internet' in 1971. 22 computers in the whole country.

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Old 07-17-2017, 10:23 AM   #7 (permalink)
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I don't know about run of the mill Republican voters but there is an interesting article on Vox a which says that a significant number of conservative commentators tended to rally round Nixon over Watergate (prior to that they'd generally been critical of his rapprochement with China)

https://www.vox.com/the-big-idea/201...-trump-history

p.s. Nice to see Burroughs on that internet diagram , I worked for them for a while while in college before they became Unisys - Didn't know they were ARPA Net pioneers
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Old 07-17-2017, 10:34 AM   #8 (permalink)
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A related misperception that some present-day liberals tend to retrofit to 1973 has it that the Washington Republican leadership of that time included ballsy, principled moderates who would speak truth to their gangster president as the pathetic Trump lackeys Mitch McConnell and Paul Ryan will not. If only. A few Republican senators did ask tough questions during the Watergate hearings — Howard Baker and Lowell Weicker, famously — but it took even them a year after the Watergate break-in to find their voices, and they were not in the leadership. Then, as now, so-called Establishment Republicans were more likely to gripe about Nixon in private or in not-for-attribution conversations with reporters. In public, they usually cowered, sparing the president their harshest criticism and cordoning him off from impeachable offenses out of fear of him and his base. The Republican minority leader in the House, the Arizona congressman John Rhodes, found his mail running three to one against Nixon until he talked about a possible presidential resignation; then the count flipped to eight to one in Nixon’s favor.

...

Nor did Nixon’s base ever desert him. At the nadir of Watergate, Nixon’s approval rating fell to 27 percent; by the time he resigned, that number had dropped to 24 percent. In other words, at least a quarter of the American populace had no problem telling pollsters that they were still behind a president who had lied repeatedly and engaged in unambiguously criminal conspiracies. They still saw Nixon as “one of us,” as he billed himself on posters in his first House run in 1946, and as a fighter who took on “them” — essentially the same elites that Trump inveighs against today.

Trump’s base is roughly the same size as Nixon’s then, or only a shade less. At FiveThirtyEight, Nate Silver quantifies that base as voters who “strongly approve” of Trump, a figure that peaked at 30 after the Inaugural and had dropped to 21 to 22 percent by late May. They will no more abandon Trump than their parents and grandparents did Nixon. If anything, Trump’s ascent has once more confirmed that this constituency is a permanent factor in the American political equation. Should Trump follow Nixon into ignominy, that base may in time rally around a more cunning and durable Trump — a new Nixon, if you will. He will be far scarier than an understudy like Pence, who is unlikely to survive his association with a tainted president any longer than Ford did (if even that long). Future Democrats may be just as ineffectual at stopping the next right-wing populist before he (or she) lands in the White House, but that’s a depression for another day.
Just Wait. Watergate didn’t become Watergate overnight, either.

As usual, a well researched and written article by Frank Rich on exactly this topic. Highly recommended reading.
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Old 07-17-2017, 10:49 AM   #9 (permalink)
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Old 07-17-2017, 11:32 AM   #10 (permalink)
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If things go now remotely the way they went in Nixon's time, Pence will not become President. We'll end up with Ryan or someone equally as microcephalic. As I recall, Spiro Agnew was Nixon's VP, but he also ended up resigning. That's how we ended up with Chevy Chase Gerold Ford as President.
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Old 07-17-2017, 12:06 PM   #11 (permalink)
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This was the entire 'internet' in 1971. 22 computers in the whole country.

Ah, thanks, looks like I missed the explosion by a few years. Still though, the 70s were the decade the internet started taking off and by '80 it was pretty standard for most colleges to be hooked up to one network or another.
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Old 07-17-2017, 12:16 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Is this a case of history repeating itself and even Nixon had supporters in the face of overwhelming evidence against him, or are Trump supporters really this delusional?
History is not repeating itself. My whole (immediate) family were Nixon supporters. Nixon himself only tried to keep a lid on things for the sake of others, not himself. My father liked to joke that the only mistake Nixon made was getting caught.

Nixon was a hell of a diplomat. The White House should have taken advantage of that instead of ostracizing him.

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Old 07-17-2017, 12:35 PM   #13 (permalink)
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True. Nixon was savvy and actually knew what he was doing. His mistake was trying to obfuscate something when he was effectively caught red-handed. And I guess it helps to know the GOP has been party over country my whole life, on some weird level.
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Old 07-17-2017, 01:19 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wanda Belinda View Post
I was only 12 in 1970. My recollection was there were lots of protests against Nixon and the war. As far as rabid supporters go, there were no huge rallies supporting Nixon. Keep in mind there was no internet then so people couldn't rant and rave like they do now. They mostly could just talk with their neighbors and with a few people they knew on the phone. Also, for most people, the news consisted of three tv stations and their local papers, which might have their left or right slants but mostly tried to be somewhat balanced.
Also cogent: Fox News channel wasn't formed until 1996.
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Old 07-17-2017, 01:25 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Nixon's main failure was arrogance. He considered his becoming POTUS to have been predestined. He also targeted minorities and white liberals directly with his policies, especially with respect to illicit drug use. Then there's the whole Southern Strategy, which he played a large role in, which is still haunting us to this day. The semi-normalization of diplomacy with China and the creation of the EPA are about the only things I'm willing to give him credit for. Which is ironic, since the people he was trying to court with the Southern Strategy are the very same people now destroying the EPA and damaging relations with China.
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Old 07-17-2017, 02:55 PM   #16 (permalink)
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Did Nixon have rabid followers who didn't believe he did anything wrong? If so, do you have any newspaper clippings or other articles showing that a section of the population was as delusional as Trump supporters appear to be?

Is this a case of history repeating itself and even Nixon had supporters in the face of overwhelming evidence against him, or are Trump supporters really this delusional?
He did, I think.

I think people were, in general, more low key and not as demonstrative or open about things then.

I remember the new age stuff that was all over then, and the 'rock and roll is a conspiracy!' types and such. There was about as much woo woo, it was just that were weren't as aware of it because we did a little better job of hiding it.

Or maybe as kids we just weren't as perceptive sometimes as those who'd spent a lifetime with that.

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Old 07-17-2017, 03:03 PM   #17 (permalink)
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If things go now remotely the way they went in Nixon's time, Pence will not become President. We'll end up with Ryan or someone equally as microcephalic. As I recall, Spiro Agnew was Nixon's VP, but he also ended up resigning. That's how we ended up with Chevy Chase Gerold Ford as President.
Agnew resigned, as I recall, as a result of his corruption in various public offices in Maryland (he was blatantly corrupt on a pretty heroic scale) rather than because of any involvement with Nixon's machinations.

I seem to remember that people said at the time Nixon had chosen him as a VP because even the most crazed of assassins would be deterred by the thought of a President Agnew. Indeed, there's a scene in the Stephen King novel, The Dead Zone, where the protagonist wakes up from his coma to be told that Nixon is no longer the President, because he resigned, and the poor man almost has a heart attack until they can reassure that that no, he hasn't woken up in an America where Spiro Agnew is President.
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Old 07-17-2017, 03:27 PM   #18 (permalink)
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Yes. There were quite a few Nixon fans. You have to remember that, despite ALL the protests and riots, he managed to get re-elected in a landslide victory. He was elected with the largest plurality of votes in American history. This was after news of the Nixon's famous 'enemies List", and Watergate break in with connection to the oval office had been published in June prior to the election. If you want some good reading on this era, check out Hunter Thompson's "Fear and Loathing on the Campaign Trail" WIthout Nixon, there would never have been President Donald Trump.

The main difference between now and then was that his support quickly died out once the watergate hearings started. My sister often recalls her school keeping the TV on all day so the kids could watch the hearings. They were carried live on all three major networks at the time. Today, you barely can get them covered by any networks. These we not impeachment hearing, these were committee investigations, which news networks barely show today. I guess civics was considered important then.

BTW, if you've never read Thompson's obituary for Nixon, you really should.

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Nixon's spirit will be with us for the rest of our lives -- whether you're me or Bill Clinton or you or Kurt Cobain or Bishop Tutu or Keith Richards or Amy Fisher or Boris Yeltsin's daughter or your fiancee's 16-year-old beer-drunk brother with his braided goatee and his whole life like a thundercloud out in front of him. This is not a generational thing. You don't even have to know who Richard Nixon was to be a victim of his ugly, Nazi spirit.

He has poisoned our water forever. Nixon will be remembered as a classic case of a smart man shitting in his own nest. But he also shit in our nests, and that was the crime that history will burn on his memory like a brand. By disgracing and degrading the Presidency of the United States, by fleeing the White House like a diseased cur, Richard Nixon broke the heart of the American Dream.

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Old 07-17-2017, 06:01 PM   #19 (permalink)
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And there's the difference, right there in that second paragraph. 45 is *not* a smart man.

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Old 07-17-2017, 09:35 PM   #20 (permalink)
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Old 07-18-2017, 08:31 AM   #21 (permalink)
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I once had a boss by the name of Dick. As it happens he had a rather unfortunate last name to go with it. He had me send a job posting to the local university and I, realizing the reaction from college kids, made a minor change to say his name was Richard. He then blew up saying only his mother called him Richard. You would have thought at some point in his life someone would have told him his nickname combined with his last name was going to be laughed at.

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Old 07-18-2017, 09:30 AM   #22 (permalink)
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History is not repeating itself. My whole (immediate) family were Nixon supporters. Nixon himself only tried to keep a lid on things for the sake of others, not himself. My father liked to joke that the only mistake Nixon made was getting caught.

Nixon was a hell of a diplomat. The White House should have taken advantage of that instead of ostracizing him.



Call me names, I won't care. I still have respect for the man.
Here's the thing about Nixon: He *was* a great diplomat. That's something he had that Trump lacks. Respect. For a while, anyway. The main issue with Nixon right off the bat is he had to follow Kennedy, who was apparently greatly loved, in spite of his many flaws.

But that's not the bit I'm talking about when it comes to repeating history. I'm talking about the arrogance that a President can do no wrong. Nixon, I expect, did have a bit of that going on. Hell, so did Clinton. He looked right at the camera, smiled, and lied into the camera.

Trouble is, these men believe their own lies.

No, I'm talking about the ultimate downfall, the support these men had/have, and whether or not people supported Nixon even when caught with his hand in the cookie jar.
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Old 07-18-2017, 10:11 AM   #23 (permalink)
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Many of the demographic that are Trump supporters today would have been Wallace supporters in 1968 when Nixon was first elected. By 72, some would have been Republicans, but a great many were still Southern Democrats.
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Old 07-18-2017, 04:16 PM   #24 (permalink)
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I once had a boss by the name of Dick. As it happens he had a rather unfortunate last name to go with it. He had me send a job posting to the local university and I, realizing the reaction from college kids, made a minor change to say his name was Richard. He then blew up saying only his mother called him Richard. You would have thought at some point in his life someone would have told him his nickname combined with his last name was going to be laughed at.
You know, this reminds me of a story at the college I went to, back in the 80s some of my friends were student assistants at the Humanities building, which meant they had keys to the case that had all the faculty listed...

They were both music majors and one was also an art major, so of course those faculty were the hardest hit in this prank, where the names were all turned into perverted versions. However, the poor dean didn't need any help.

Why someone, with the last name 'Dangle' would not use Richard is beyond me.
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