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Old 07-14-2017, 07:48 PM   #76 (permalink)
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Also red pill/incel/MGTOW are by far the funniest fucking communities that have cropped up over the internet over the years, pleace don't take away the self defeating human idiot zoo that I snark at on a daily basis.

If any of these idiots treated women as if they were actual people (PERISH THE THOUGHT) rather than orgasm dispensers they would probably actually get laid.
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Old 07-14-2017, 08:37 PM   #77 (permalink)
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Yes, the age group is another reason why the standard advice isn't going to work. Try telling a 20 year old that he should just be patient and it might take him till he is 40+ to find the love of his life....I can't see that appeasing him.

But also keep in mind the age group when talking about romantic success. It is a completely different objective. Most teens won't successfully fine their life partner right away, but I think most teens will date and have sex to some degree.
Hmm. Most of the guys I've given the "be yourself" advise to when they were in their 20s were happily married by the time they hit 30 with a couple of kids. Not all, just most.

No, they weren't too happy hearing it but they listened and realized the truth in it. Especially when I pointed out that anything less than honesty in a relationship is a death knell for the relationship and why.

Of those that did get married by 30, none of the marriages have ended in divorce.
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Old 07-14-2017, 08:53 PM   #78 (permalink)
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A lot of what the red pill preaches/teaches is true too, but it doesn't make it the right answer, though.
I'm sure it is, but it's all in the intention. If it's all done to be fake, then that's wrong. Self-reflection and development is a thing that people should take seriously and not just to get laid.

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We are veering off on a tangent now. It really has nothing to do with anyone complaining about their dating success or complaining they can't be themselves. The article is about a handful of teen and twenty-ish year old guys who, at one point, felt like complete failures in the dating world. Then they found the red pill reddit, felt happy they weren't alone in their feelings and failures, and got advice of how to get women. They followed the red pill advice, but after a while they began to realize the red pill wasn't the answer or who they were/wanted to be.
What it shows is that there is a lure to the red pill ideology, instilling a false sense of pride/superiority based on lies and hate. Fortunately some people can break out of it. We all have the capacity to be assholes, that's part of being human. It's easier for some people than others.

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Dillon's advice to the red pillers / PUAs was essentially "be yourself". But obviously that didn't work for these guys, which is what I pointed out. They wouldn't have fallen for the red pill if being themselves worked.
The problem is that red pill guys are assholes, and being themselves obviously isn't going to work in the long run. At that juncture one decides: what am I doing wrong and how do I fix it? For reals, though, not just to get laid. If the problem with you is you're immature and can't hold a conversation, you can work on it. Read more, travel more if you can afford it. Pick up some new hobbies, new experiences. And I don't mean the latest game on the phone.

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Then you say that these guys need to not be fat, boring, slobs if they want to attract women and if they aren't willing to do what it takes to be thin, interesting, attractive people, then they need to stfu, which honestly, I don't know where this came from. As far as I know, there weren't a lot of specifics as to what was causing their dating failures. So my guess was that you were going with the standard social stereotypes of how to be attractive.
Obviously the reasons for people not dating are myriad and when I brought that up, I just picked a few things that some people can do to increase their chances of success. That's not going to be everyone's problem. But it's a common problem.


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I think Io hit on the real problem the best. The fringe that some of these guys (and probably a lot of the guys used as examples in the article) probably fall into isn't going to be fixed with traditional "be yourself" "don't look for love, let love find you" "it will happen when you least expect it" disney advice. It also isn't going to be fixed with that shallow stereotypical social norm "be thin, be interesting, look fashionably good" advice.

The sad truth is probably that there just aren't a lot of compatible women for these guys. Yes, with the billions of people out there who are 'ugly' and still managed to find a mate, it is possible. But that is not a whole lot of condolence when someone feels like they are at their breaking point of rejection and loneliness.
There is a saying that you have to love yourself before anyone else can love you. That's not universally true, but there is a lot of truth to it. These people don't love themselves enough to get past the lies in their heads and then get swamped in self-pity.

I know I'm not the most confident person so I can understand it to a high degree, but not to the extent that these people go and turn around to hate women. There is a more serious character defect here in that they are so focused on themselves and basically start seeing women as objects. I can only hope that more of them wake up, grow up, and find a way to be better people.
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Old 07-14-2017, 09:53 PM   #79 (permalink)
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There is a saying that you have to love yourself before anyone else can love you. That's not universally true, but there is a lot of truth to it. These people don't love themselves enough to get past the lies in their heads and then get swamped in self-pity.
I agree with the saying, but I think a better way of wording it would be that you have to respect yourself before anyone else can respect you. It has application beyond romantic relationships, and doesn't have the negative connotation of loving yourself just a bit too much.
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Old 07-14-2017, 11:07 PM   #80 (permalink)
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Or that kind of advice could be what drove them to red pill type methods. I know for a fact for my own personal issues, the "life sucks, suck it up" advice only drove me further into depression.
While I'm sorry you went through depression or are going through it, I'm not overly concerned that a group of people who regularly treat one half of the species as cum receptacles are having a bad time of it. I don't need to understand these people nor do I particularly care to. But during that time period of your depression, did you help participate and support a backwards type of ideology that by its design lowers women to merely objects of sexual fulfilment?

Because if not, we aren't really talking about the same thing. Sure, there may be some reasonable association of these poor, lonely individuals who are only seeking someone who understands them but let's be frank, the whole concept pretty much stops there. At the juncture where your goal becomes exploitation is the point where teeth really deserve to meet pavement.

As to advice? Treat them like a cult because frankly, unless someone makes the effort themselves, human beings are invariably tied to whatever ideology they profess and almost no amount of data, reasonably presented, is going to change that and in fact, there seems to be plenty of suggestion that the data presented will only reinforces their shitty, exploitative beliefs.

So fuck em.
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Old 07-17-2017, 12:47 PM   #81 (permalink)
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While I'm sorry you went through depression or are going through it, I'm not overly concerned that a group of people who regularly treat one half of the species as cum receptacles are having a bad time of it. I don't need to understand these people nor do I particularly care to. But during that time period of your depression, did you help participate and support a backwards type of ideology that by its design lowers women to merely objects of sexual fulfilment?

Because if not, we aren't really talking about the same thing. Sure, there may be some reasonable association of these poor, lonely individuals who are only seeking someone who understands them but let's be frank, the whole concept pretty much stops there. At the juncture where your goal becomes exploitation is the point where teeth really deserve to meet pavement.

As to advice? Treat them like a cult because frankly, unless someone makes the effort themselves, human beings are invariably tied to whatever ideology they profess and almost no amount of data, reasonably presented, is going to change that and in fact, there seems to be plenty of suggestion that the data presented will only reinforces their shitty, exploitative beliefs.

So fuck em.
I will admit that I am giving these guys probably more credit than they deserve, but at the same time, I think that you and many others are generalizing the very worst aspects of the PUA/red pill stereotype onto the group as a whole. Your reaction is kind of why I liked the OP article. To some degree it shows that a portion of these red pill type guys are not much different than anyone else. They are flawed and they have reasons why they are flawed, regardless if you think their actions are warranted or not. I don't think they are bad people as a whole, especially the subjects of the article. Just some bad experiences and bad choices to them.

You are right, though. I don't intentionally manipulate people for sex. However, I never had trouble in that department where I would need to resort to extreme methods. If I had my very high sex drive, but didn't have the looks, personality, and/or intelligence to back it up...I might do some stupid things for sex.
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Old 07-17-2017, 12:59 PM   #82 (permalink)
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I think you have to be a pretty shitty person inherently to subscribe to a group that views women as nothing more than receptacles for semen, one which posts treatises on why women enjoy getting raped (but only by alpha males so it's really their own fault for having the high standards that PUAs think they have).

Plenty of men have been through some shit, seen some shit, had their heart ripped out and put in a blender by someone they trusted. Plenty also, shockingly, manage not to fall up their own ass and become an MRAer. Also shockingly, some women have been absolutely destroyed by a man and manage not to hate all men despite what MRAers think about the women they've treated horribly.

It's almost like being a dickhole is a choice.
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Old 07-17-2017, 01:47 PM   #83 (permalink)
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The men who left the MRA "movement" are simply men who grew the fuck up and stopped blaming everyone else for the choices that they made in life, including feeling sorry for themselves to such a degree that an entire gender became the enemy.

Aw, your dick's feelings were hurt and so you hate women. And yet a rape victim was asking for it because she went out in public owning a vagina, and you hold it against her for being wary around men who trigger reminders of her assault. Are you fucking kidding me.

Women don't owe anyone sex in return for simple acts of decency, and we sure as shit don't owe self-proclaimed nice guys sex in return for what was only done with the hopes that our knickers would melt. What kind of fucking house were these guys raised in to make them see play-acting as a decent human being or forcing yourself on a woman as the only two options in romantic life.
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