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Old 05-19-2017, 09:17 AM   #1 (permalink)
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Goodbye Internet

Theresa May to create new internet that would be controlled and regulated by government | The Independent
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Old 05-19-2017, 09:42 AM   #2 (permalink)
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So, China/N. Korea Interwebz 2.0?
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Old 05-19-2017, 09:56 AM   #3 (permalink)
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So, China/N. Korea Interwebz 2.0?
Erm -- China Interwebz != N. Korea (practically non-existent) Interwebz.

True, you can't, officially, see Google, YouTube, Twitter or Facebook in China, but The Great Firewall is easily breached by any number of VPN's. I've heard *cough* that no one comes knocking on your hotel room door if you VPN your way to the Forbidden Knowledge.

Those VPN's, hilariously, advertise all over the China "special edition" Yahoo page. GET ON FACEBOOK FROM CHINA! $12.95 PER MONTH! Looks like May is hell bent on opening up a whole new market for them.
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Old 05-19-2017, 10:08 AM   #4 (permalink)
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Erm -- China Interwebz != N. Korea (practically non-existent) Interwebz.

True, you can't, officially, see Google, YouTube, Twitter or Facebook in China, but The Great Firewall is easily breached by any number of VPN's. I've heard *cough* that no one comes knocking on your hotel room door if you VPN your way to the Forbidden Knowledge.

Those VPN's, hilariously, advertise all over the China "special edition" Yahoo page. GET ON FACEBOOK FROM CHINA! $12.95 PER MONTH! Looks like May is hell bent on opening up a whole new market for them.
Lucifer did say goodbye internet, hence the N.Korea inclusion ;P

I have a friend who works in China and yes, there are plenty of work arounds to the government firewall.
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Old 05-19-2017, 10:21 AM   #5 (permalink)
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Old 05-19-2017, 11:06 AM   #6 (permalink)
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I wonder how many VPN companies are secret contributors to the Conservative Party.

I bought a lifetime subscription to PureVPN (which I used anyway) some time ago on a special offer from Digg because sometimes I need to pretend to be in the USA to access movies and US TV and such. Well worth having.

To be fair, some of the proposals, such as giving people the right to have social media companies delete anything they posted when they were under 18, or making hate sites harder to access, are well-intentioned, though I'm not sure how best to implement them.

More generally, and at risk of being thought contrarian, I am really not sure, in a fight between, in one corner, Mark Zuckerberg and Google, and Theresa May in the other, that that the big social media companies and search engines are always going to be in the right.

Quite possibly both are going to be in the wrong but I don't think that allowing social media companies or Google complete freedom from regulation will, in the long run, be any more beneficial for anyone but the owners of the companies concerned than was complete freedom from regulation for C19th and early C20th robber baron capitalists, and for the same reasons.

In other words, I don't have a Thatcherite conviction that large and powerful private businesses are best left unregulated.

For example, I am sure that Rupert Murdoch wishes the UK had a similarly liberal regulatory approach to cable and satellite broadcasting to that in the USA, so the UK could have an equivalent to Fox News and so that there would be fewer problems for his attempts to buy Sky. But I am not sure it would be generally beneficial.
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Old 05-19-2017, 12:36 PM   #7 (permalink)
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I bought a lifetime subscription to PureVPN (which I used anyway) some time ago on a special offer from Digg because sometimes I need to pretend to be in the USA to access movies and US TV and such. Well worth having.
Just how long do you think that loophole will be allowed to exist, if Gauleiter May has her way ?
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Old 05-19-2017, 12:46 PM   #8 (permalink)
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It is almost is if they dont understand how the internet works.

And want to control alllllllllll the things.
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Old 05-19-2017, 12:58 PM   #9 (permalink)
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I like this comment from BoingBoing:



Theresa May promises a British version of Iran's Halal Internet / Boing Boing

"No Sex please We're British" comes to mind, which of course also brings to mind the foulest, filthiest things, nudge, nudge, wink, wink, say no more. Such a confusing lot.
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Old 05-19-2017, 01:01 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Just how long do you think that loophole will be allowed to exist, if Gauleiter May has her way ?
How might the use of VPN be prohibited? As I understand it, governments like those of the People's Republic of China and the Islamic Republic of Iran, which are both more repressive (or at least arguably so) than is anything likely to materialise here after June 8th, have so far found it impossible to prevent their use.
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Old 05-19-2017, 01:08 PM   #11 (permalink)
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It's next to impossibly to detect and block the use of a VPN without completely breaking a lot of other things on the web.

The data is encrypted, so to any monitoring software it looks like noise, or a bank transfer or an online shopping purchase, or any number of encrypted secure style internet traffic.
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Old 05-19-2017, 06:16 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Basically it's a proposition for an added internet access tax plan to be given to ISPs and hosting outfits who play ball with her government.
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Old 05-19-2017, 10:15 PM   #13 (permalink)
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It's next to impossibly to detect and block the use of a VPN without completely breaking a lot of other things on the web.

The data is encrypted, so to any monitoring software it looks like noise, or a bank transfer or an online shopping purchase, or any number of encrypted secure style internet traffic.
If only that were true.
The Chinese government does block VPNs when it wants too:

https://www.usatoday.com/story/tech/...tter/22235707/
China blocks VPN services that let users get round its
https://techcrunch.com/2015/11/25/ch...obile-service/

The last one from Xinjiang is the most alarming where if the authorities detect that you have used a VPN your phone is blocked until you visit the local police station to request it is unblocked.

They can detect and do block VPNs when they need to. I remember during the leadership changeover all VPNs stopped working here.

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Old 05-20-2017, 05:06 AM   #14 (permalink)
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How might the use of VPN be prohibited? As I understand it, governments like those of the People's Republic of China and the Islamic Republic of Iran, which are both more repressive (or at least arguably so) than is anything likely to materialise here after June 8th, have so far found it impossible to prevent their use.
But to be found using it (or having the software to do so) will be punishable by something entirely out of proportion. I'm sorry, logic doesn't apply here. I truly believe that Mrs May truly believes it can be done, and (will probably) have 5 years of a poodle government to ensure that it is done, by any means necessary.

Me, paranoid ? Not until the past few years...

Last edited by Arkady Arkright; 05-20-2017 at 05:08 AM. Reason: Correct punctuation
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Old 05-20-2017, 08:00 AM   #15 (permalink)
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All they would have to do to eliminate the vpn problem is to make them illegal. Anyone who uses their credit card to pay a vpn company is faced with a crime. That might not wipe out 100% of their use but it would wipe out 99% which is all they are after.
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Old 05-20-2017, 10:18 AM   #16 (permalink)
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But to be found using it (or having the software to do so) will be punishable by something entirely out of proportion. I'm sorry, logic doesn't apply here. I truly believe that Mrs May truly believes it can be done, and (will probably) have 5 years of a poodle government to ensure that it is done, by any means necessary.

Me, paranoid ? Not until the past few years...
For heaven's sake, Arkady. A minute's thought would tell you that the authorities find it difficult catch people downloading and sharing images of the sexual abuse of children, an offence everyone takes pretty seriously.

Nevertheless, you seem to think that, nevertheless, HMG is likely expend considerable resources and large amounts of public money pursuing everyone using virtual private networks (often for perfectly legitimate reasons, like security when using public wifi, or accessing your work or home computer from a remote location) or even for having the software installed on their machines at home.

Whatever you say about logic not applying here, logic and reality do have a way of sticking their ugly heads through the door when people have to try actually to implement their proposals through legislation.

In consequence, at least to my mind, whatever they say in their manifesto, Mrs May and her colleagues will, assuming they win, be plenty busy throughout the life of the next parliament trying to deal with the political and legislative consequences of Brexit, which is going to be an Herculean task. I really don't see that they're going to have parliamentary time available to do a great deal else.

If it means anything, this particular proposal means, I think, little more than that they'll lean on Facebook and Google to make various sorts of content less accessible.

And, quite frankly, I really don't see what's wrong with making it more difficult to access hate sites or with trying to give people the ability to wipe out stuff they've posted on social media when they were kids. I can't see how they can make Facebook or whoever comply with that world-wide, but I don't think that's the point -- simply trying to ensure that people have to make a bit of effort to access the material is probably all that's needed.
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Old 05-20-2017, 10:32 AM   #17 (permalink)
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All they would have to do to eliminate the vpn problem is to make them illegal. Anyone who uses their credit card to pay a vpn company is faced with a crime. That might not wipe out 100% of their use but it would wipe out 99% which is all they are after.
Presumably, then, VPN companies would simply use resellers and payment processors outside the UK jurisdiction.
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Old 05-20-2017, 10:46 AM   #18 (permalink)
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It is almost is if they dont understand how the internet works.

And want to control alllllllllll the things.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Innula Zenovka View Post
How might the use of VPN be prohibited? As I understand it, governments like those of the People's Republic of China and the Islamic Republic of Iran, which are both more repressive (or at least arguably so) than is anything likely to materialise here after June 8th, have so far found it impossible to prevent their use.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arkady Arkright View Post
But to be found using it (or having the software to do so) will be punishable by something entirely out of proportion. I'm sorry, logic doesn't apply here. I truly believe that Mrs May truly believes it can be done, and (will probably) have 5 years of a poodle government to ensure that it is done, by any means necessary.

Me, paranoid ? Not until the past few years...
I am not sure of the current status of it but I was taught in grad school that encryption technology was controlled as a munition. Which meant you had to have US and non-US versions of most operating systems because of that function.

Followed by the obvious. My making the professor who said practically blow up by showing him the source code for the unix crypt in a copy of 2600 and pointing out you can subscribe to that magazine out of the country.

Side note: that mag often has some brain-dead stuff (like printing out all possible combinations for a simplex lock) but it can be fun to have when someone says things like that professor.
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Old 05-20-2017, 10:53 AM   #19 (permalink)
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Presumably, then, VPN companies would simply use resellers and payment processors outside the UK jurisdiction.
It wouldn't matter where the payment processor was if they make the purchaser guilty.
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Old 05-20-2017, 11:45 AM   #20 (permalink)
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It wouldn't matter where the payment processor was if they make the purchaser guilty.
Yes, but if my credit card records show a payment to a reseller or a credit card processor, how do you know what the payment was for, if the reseller/credit card processor is outside the UK and won't tell you?
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Old 05-20-2017, 01:18 PM   #21 (permalink)
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Yes, but if my credit card records show a payment to a reseller or a credit card processor, how do you know what the payment was for, if the reseller/credit card processor is outside the UK and won't tell you?
They'll just get you for money laundering if you refuse to reveal it - May is quite capable of implementing that little gem.

As to your other comments - your faith in government incompetence is heartening, but they do get some things done. And, I'm a believer in the theory of slippery slopes when it comes to governments 'only doing stuff to cover extreme situations' - like accusing someone of terrorism for refusing to give their passwords on returning to their native country.

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Old 05-20-2017, 01:24 PM   #22 (permalink)
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For heaven's sake, Arkady. A minute's thought would tell you that the authorities find it difficult catch people downloading and sharing images of the sexual abuse of children, an offence everyone takes pretty seriously.
Vile as it is, that's not an issue of 'National Security'.
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Old 05-20-2017, 02:24 PM   #23 (permalink)
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Vile as it is, that's not an issue of 'National Security'.
Also, why would a government headed by a former home secretary who "lost" files relating to historical child abuse by politicians pay more than lip service to dealing with child pornography?

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Old 05-20-2017, 02:41 PM   #24 (permalink)
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Even if they went after VPNs there's always TOR. This is next-level stupid.
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Old 05-20-2017, 02:45 PM   #25 (permalink)
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Even if they went after VPNs there's always TOR. This is next-level stupid.
Tor is very easy to identify. The tor people even publish all of their outgoing ips.
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