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Old 05-17-2017, 06:57 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Special prosecutor named for the investigation into Russian interference

Special prosecutor named.

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The United States Department of Justice will appoint a special, independent counsel to handle any potential prosecutions over Russia's alleged interference in the 2016 presidential election, Deputy Attorney General Rod Rosenstein has announced.

The investigation includes a probe into "any links and/or coordination between the Russian government and individuals associated with the campaign of President Donald Trump," the order of appointment states.

Former FBI Director Robert Mueller has been named as the special counsel.
Good.
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Old 05-17-2017, 07:51 PM   #2 (permalink)
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By doing this, Rosenstein actually bailed out the GOP on the Hill like significantly. Recent events were putting them under extreme pressure to actually call for a special counsel to be appointed. Now that the DOJ willingly did so without Congressional prompting, all that pressure is removed; GOP congressmen can easily say things like "this is a good/the right thing to do" about this appointment without suffering the same political cost they would've faced if they had come out demanding/asking for/supporting such a thing before it happened.

There's only one single person that wouldn't be happy about this, and that's Trump. Yeah I know he released an "I approve of this and look forward to being vindicated" statement a little bit ago; but he must actually be quite furious. He's probably screaming at his staff like an abusive husband right now.
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Old 05-17-2017, 08:53 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Trump Team Knew Flynn was Under Investigation Before He Came to White House
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WASHINGTON — Michael T. Flynn told President Trump’s transition team weeks before the inauguration that he was under federal investigation for secretly working as a paid lobbyist for Turkey during the campaign, according to two people familiar with the case.

Despite this warning, which came about a month after the Justice Department notified Mr. Flynn of the inquiry, Mr. Trump made Mr. Flynn his national security adviser. The job gave Mr. Flynn access to the president and nearly every secret held by American intelligence agencies.
That alone should be impeachable, imho.
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Old 05-17-2017, 10:23 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Since Sessions is head of the doj can he fire Mueller if he wants?
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Old 05-17-2017, 10:32 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Analysis | Republicans just got what they didn't want. A special counsel.
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Old 05-17-2017, 10:32 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Wanda Belinda View Post
Since Sessions is head of the doj can he fire Mueller if he wants?
He's not a political appointee. He has been given civil service protections so he can't be fired by the President. Sessions has been recused from the russia investigation (for all the good that means in this era of failing political norms) so it would have to be Rosenstein to fire him. Since Rosenstein appointed him that seems like an unlikely thing for him to do without cause, so Trump would have to fire Rosenstein first, get a new deputy attorney general in place, and have them fire Mueller.

All of that would look pretty bad and cause more damage than the investigation itself.

So expect Trump to do just that tomorrow.
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Old 05-17-2017, 10:38 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Also Wikileaks immediately released some information about Mueller. What a coincidence! I'm sure this information isn't biased in any way!

Twitter

What actually happened is that a sample of uranium was seized during a sting operation in Georgia, then afterwards as an investigation into its origins was handed over to Russia with the consent of all involved nations.

WHAT A SCANDAL
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Old 05-17-2017, 10:39 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Trump can remove him. But it won't look good, though he often doesn't care about that. As long as Fox keeps the base ignorant of details, Trump is relatively safe. But if he incites another million-woman march on Washington, Fox will not be able to ignore covering it.
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Old 05-17-2017, 11:10 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wanda Belinda View Post
Since Sessions is head of the doj can he fire Mueller if he wants?
Technically, probably. So can Trump. But at this juncture, firing Mueller could, in the words of a couple of political experts I read today, "bring down the government". He would stand to lose any of the remaining sympathy he has from the Repubs in Congress.

This essentially blocks Trump from doing another damned thing about the investigations. Sure, he could pressure the House about what they do on impeachment, but he'd better be awfully careful about obstructing justice. See also Nixon, Richard.
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Old 05-17-2017, 11:13 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lianne Marten View Post
He's not a political appointee. He has been given civil service protections so he can't be fired by the President.
Naming Robert Mueller as special counsel isn't enough — because Trump can get rid of him

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On Wednesday, Deputy Atty. Gen. Rod Rosenstein announced he was appointing former FBI Director Robert S. Mueller III as special prosecutor to take over the Justice Department investigation of Russian meddling in the 2016 election. Without the protection of the independent counsel law, however, Trump can order Rosenstein to fire Mueller, and fire Rosenstein if he refuses.
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Old 05-17-2017, 11:16 PM   #11 (permalink)
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That's exactly what I said.
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Old 05-17-2017, 11:21 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Old 05-17-2017, 11:32 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lianne Marten View Post
That's exactly what I said.
The problem with Trump firing Mueller is that it will completely destroy any remaining credibility of this administration and this Congress - so badly that it could even bring down the government.

I realize that Trump's credibility is already in the crapper, but there's still room at the bottom of the pit.
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Old 05-17-2017, 11:41 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Technically, probably. So can Trump. But at this juncture, firing Mueller could, in the words of a couple of political experts I read today, "bring down the government". He would stand to lose any of the remaining sympathy he has from the Repubs in Congress.

This essentially blocks Trump from doing another damned thing about the investigations. Sure, he could pressure the House about what they do on impeachment, but he'd better be awfully careful about obstructing justice. See also Nixon, Richard.
Trump isn't known for being rational so he might do it. The republicans might ignore it too, and "bring down the government", who knows? I don't know that they really care whether they bring down the government and turn us into a police state. Or they might not and fracture. I guess we'll find out.
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Old 05-18-2017, 12:48 AM   #15 (permalink)
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Actually, I thought "bring down the government" was pretty much one of the planks of their platform.
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Old 05-18-2017, 02:58 AM   #16 (permalink)
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Trump can not fire Mueller himself. He can ask Attorney General Jeff Sessions to do it, but Sessions has taken himself out of the pictures and I doubt he wants back in. He could then ask Deputy AG Rosenstein to fire Mueller. Rosenstein appointed him and is pissed at Trump so that is unlikely. He would then have to ask the Solicitor General.

For Trump to push others to fire Mueller, who has the respect of both parties, would be an exact repeat of Nixon's "Sunday Night Massacre" where he fired special prosecutor Archibald Cox.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saturday_Night_Massacre

Quote:
However, the following day (Saturday) Nixon ordered Attorney General Richardson to fire Cox. Richardson refused and resigned in protest. Nixon then ordered Deputy Attorney General William Ruckelshaus to fire Cox. Ruckelshaus also refused and resigned.

Nixon then ordered the Solicitor General of the United States, Robert Bork, as acting head of the Justice Department, to fire Cox. Although Bork later claimed he believed Nixon's order to be valid and appropriate, he still considered resigning to avoid being "perceived as a man who did the President's bidding to save my job".

Nevertheless, having been brought to the White House by limousine and sworn in as acting attorney general, Bork wrote the letter firing Cox – and the Saturday Night Massacre was complete.
That was the beginning of the end for Nixon, and it would be the same for Trump.


Mueller and Comey have worked together closely and both seem to know a little something about the importance of taking notes:

the-very-intense-man-probing-the-president


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Mueller, who became FBI director a week before 9/11, was a colleague of James Comey during the Bush administration. And one of the most consequential moments in that relationship involves note-taking––a skill Comey has clearly adopted.

As Comey revealed in Congressional testimony in 2007, he and Mueller clashed with top Bush White House officials in March 2004 over an effort to reauthorize NSA surveillance. Comey was Deputy Attorney General at the time––second in command at the Justice Department. Alberto Gonzales, then the White House counsel, and Andy Card, then Bush’s chief of staff, tried to get then-Attorney General John Ashcroft to sign off on the continuation of a warrantless wiretapping program when he was gravely ill in the hospital.

When Comey learned what Gonzales and Card were trying to do, he let Mueller know and then raced to the hospital. He got to the attorney general’s hospital bed while Gonzales and Card were there, and managed to keep him from signing anything. Mueller got to the hospital room after the drama unfolded.
And, like any good FBI hand, Mueller took notes.

In 2007, when Alberto Gonzales was attorney general, he testified before Congress that Ashcroft was lucid and talkative on the night of the hospital visit. Comey later gave testimony countering what Gonzales said, saying Ashcroft was clearly sick and distressed. And Mueller’s notes became a pivotal piece of evidence to clear up the disparity, as the Washington Post reported at the time. He turned over a heavily redacted version of those notes to the House Judiciary Committee, showing Gonzales had misinformed the committee.

The news of Mueller’s notes broke on Aug. 17, 2007. Ten days later, Gonzales announced he would resign.
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Old 05-18-2017, 05:02 AM   #17 (permalink)
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Rachel Maddow covered the history and the details of the special counsel law on her show last night. She asked all the relevant questions and had them answered by the end of the hour. One of her guests was a man who actually helped write the law.

Mueller to oversee Trump-Russia investigation as special counsel | MSNBC

The most sobering fact was that Trump can indeed fire a special counsel (unlike the independent counsel used for Nixon and Clinton). There are plenty of rational reasons he shouldn't, but Trump has never stood by convention. He fights like a cornered rat, and I would not put it past him to fire Mueller, regardless of the consequences.
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Old 05-18-2017, 05:33 AM   #18 (permalink)
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I'm a little concerned...it's been 14hours since the Orange One has tweeted......

concern over....he's awake and ready roll. And we're back to Because Obama and Crooked Hillary.

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/865169927644340224

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Old 05-18-2017, 05:35 AM   #19 (permalink)
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Exclusive: Trump campaign had at least 18 undisclosed contacts with Russians - sources | Reuters

reporting from rueters at 6am this morning:

Quote:
The previously undisclosed interactions form part of the record now being reviewed by FBI and congressional investigators probing Russian interference in the U.S. presidential election and contacts between Trump’s campaign and Russia.

Six of the previously undisclosed contacts described to Reuters were phone calls between Sergei Kislyak, Russia's ambassador to the United States, and Trump advisers, including Flynn, Trump’s first national security adviser, three current and former officials said.

Conversations between Flynn and Kislyak accelerated after the Nov. 8 vote as the two discussed establishing a back channel for communication between Trump and Russian President Vladimir Putin that could bypass the U.S. national security bureaucracy, which both sides considered hostile to improved relations, four current U.S. officials said.
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Old 05-18-2017, 07:46 AM   #20 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Lianne Marten View Post
He's not a political appointee. He has been given civil service protections so he can't be fired by the President. Sessions has been recused from the russia investigation (for all the good that means in this era of failing political norms) so it would have to be Rosenstein to fire him. Since Rosenstein appointed him that seems like an unlikely thing for him to do without cause, so Trump would have to fire Rosenstein first, get a new deputy attorney general in place, and have them fire Mueller.

All of that would look pretty bad and cause more damage than the investigation itself.

So expect Trump to do just that tomorrow.
Because it worked out so well for Nixon.

Oh, hey, someone mentioned Flynn? Well, apparently Flynn was doing payback for Turkey even before the inauguration...

Focus turns to Michael Flynn's work for Turkey, Russia | McClatchy Washington Bureau
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Old 05-18-2017, 07:48 AM   #21 (permalink)
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Is it bad that I hope Flynn is dealt with by the military - since, I think retired officers are still considered to be under military law. [I could be wrong, its been a long time since my dad passed, and he was my main source of military knowledge]
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Old 05-18-2017, 07:59 AM   #22 (permalink)
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The most sobering fact was that Trump can indeed fire a special counsel (unlike the independent counsel used for Nixon and Clinton).
Not directly. There's a lot of confusion about this going on. He can only order the AG to fire him.

Quote:
Q. Could Trump fire Mueller?

A. No, but Attorney General Jeff Sessions' deputy, Rod Rosenstein, could. Special counsels can be fired only by the "personal action" of the attorney general. Since Sessions has recused himself from the Trump Russia investigation, Rosenstein — who signed the letter appointing Mueller as "acting attorney general" — is the only person with the authority to curtail Mueller's work. Such a firing would require a finding of incapacity, misconduct or "good cause." Whatever the reason, Rosenstein would have to inform Mueller in writing.
Q&A: The mechanics of the Trump Russia special counsel - ABC News

Quote:
Trump could not fire Robert Mueller on his own, but his attorney general does have this authority. If Trump wanted Mueller gone, then, he could simply instruct his attorney general, Jeff Sessions, to fire him.

At that point, Sessions would have to decide whether this duty should rest on his shoulders or whether it should be up to Deputy Attorney General Rod Rosenstein. Sessions, after all, has theoretically recused himself from the Russia investigation, and so the decision of whether to fire Mueller should go to Rosenstein.

It would then be up to Rod Rosenstein, the man who hired Mueller in the first place, whether he should comply with the president’s orders and fire the special counsel. While the president could not bypass Rosenstein and fire Mueller himself, he could fire Rosenstein and replace him with a deputy attorney general who will agree to fire Mueller.
Could Donald Trump Fire Special Counsel Robert Mueller? | Heavy.com

We would indeed be back to Nixon's Saturday Night Massacre scenario.
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Old 05-18-2017, 08:04 AM   #23 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Misty Harley View Post
I'm a little concerned...it's been 14hours since the Orange One has tweeted......

concern over....he's awake and ready roll. And we're back to Because Obama and Crooked Hillary.

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/...69927644340224
And dumbshit (cheeto, not you Misty ) there has never been a special councel appointed ever.
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Old 05-18-2017, 08:10 AM   #24 (permalink)
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Is it bad that I hope Flynn is dealt with by the military - since, I think retired officers are still considered to be under military law. [I could be wrong, its been a long time since my dad passed, and he was my main source of military knowledge]
On the one hand there is this which sort of implies retired military are only subject to military law for crimes they committed in the military.

Quote:
Ask the Lawyer: Can a Retiree Face Charges For Actions Committed While on Active Duty?

Under Article Two of the Uniform Code of Military Justice, retired military personnel entitled to pay or receiving hospitalization benefits are subject to the UCMJ. ... The case involved an Air Force sergeant who retired from active duty with an honorable discharge after 20 years of service, affording him retirement pay.
On the other hand, this goes further but mostly amounts to speculation rather than having actual modern cases to go with it.

CAAFlog » The NMCCA affirms that retired service members are still in the military and still subject to the UCMJ
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Old 05-18-2017, 08:58 AM   #25 (permalink)
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