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Old 05-09-2017, 03:20 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Why Liberals Arenít as Tolerant as They Think

Why Liberals Arenít as Tolerant as They Think


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recent psychological research, some of it presented in January at the annual meeting of the Society of Personality and Social Psychology (SPSP), shows that itís not so simple. These findings confirm that conservatives, liberals, the religious and the nonreligious are each prejudiced against those with opposing views. But surprisingly, each group is about equally prejudiced. While liberals might like to think of themselves as more open-minded, they are no more tolerant of people unlike them than their conservative counterparts are.

Political understanding might finally stand a chance if we could first put aside the argument over who has that bigger problem. The truth is that we all do.
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Old 05-09-2017, 03:36 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Anyone who thinks of themselves as 100% unbiased is either delusional or fuckstupid.

I also don't think that liberals being intolerant of bigotry is something to be surprised at.
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Old 05-09-2017, 03:53 PM   #3 (permalink)
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I am so sick and tired of you parading about the board telling us how we are to capitulate, give up our beliefs about equality and reach out for bigots for their vote.

Now, you're telling us how intolerant we are. Fuck off with this nonsense.

ETA: Just because your sister fucked us all by voting for evil, and you feel defensive about that, you really don't need to keep trying to convince us that she was justified. She wasn't.
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Old 05-09-2017, 04:05 PM   #4 (permalink)
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I'm sorry but no.

out of groups A through X, if A despises everyone that is not A, and X despises A, that does not make them equal, moreover the reasons each does so matter, and most importantly so do their actions.

bias is as inescapable as breathing, but the breadth, reasoning, and action tied to that bias is the only meaningful measure.

my conclusion? that OP article sort of psuedo-intellectual false equivalence can fuck right off.
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Old 05-09-2017, 04:09 PM   #5 (permalink)
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It's also extremely disingenuous to compare the disgust of most conservatives for anyone who isn't a WASP with the refusal of liberals to give someone like, say, Ann Coulter a megaphone for her "bomb Muslims into the Stone Age" rhetoric. It isn't apples and apples.

It's apples looking at oranges as they cut funding for the arts, education, health care, etc, drive the country into the ground and stay silent as people of colour are mown down for no reason by an increasingly militarized police force, and calling them out for the stupid fucks they are.
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Old 05-09-2017, 04:14 PM   #6 (permalink)
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The difference is, Conservatives are intolerant of people over things beyond their control, sexual orientation, gender, race, to some extent, religion.

Liberals being intolerant of people who are asshole, or ignorant, isn't the same. These are things that can be controlled.

No one is repressing someone because they don't tolerate a person being a dick head to someone for being gay.

No one is repressing someone because they want to argue that the Earth is flat or Climate Change is fake or Vaccines cause autism. These are beliefs, and not just stupid beliefs, but provably false beliefs, being intolerant of them isn't really even intolerance.

I'm not saying every liberal is perfectly open minded, but basically it comes down to judging people not for who they are but for being stupid.

"But I want to believe what I want to believe, MUH FREEDOM"

Great, except you believe harm others, they hard the human race as a whole, they can be harmful to the planet. Believing the sky is green is false, but whatever, be crazy, believing that we don't need to move away from environmental killing fossil fuels because it's inconvenient and not as "cool" is being stupid, and harmful.

Hating someone because they aren't the same religion as you is repression, hating someone for being willfully ignorant of the world around them is not oppression.
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Old 05-09-2017, 04:18 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Me waiting for the rebuttal to common sense:

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Old 05-09-2017, 04:20 PM   #8 (permalink)
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I think there are an equal amount of arrogant little shits in every type of community (yes, even here), it just manifests differently. Get a group of people together who think in a similar fashion (as, say, about politics) and they become very sure of themselves and their views - even arrogant about them. Self examination is not something most people enjoy. They will immediately go into `yeah, but you're worse' mode.

Also, the way the link is titled seems to tell us more about the author or the readers he wants to attract than the actual proposition he is making.
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Old 05-09-2017, 04:29 PM   #9 (permalink)
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I'm so prejudiced, as a liberal, that I want to pass laws preventing those, who aren't liberal like me, from being non-liberal.
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Old 05-09-2017, 05:22 PM   #10 (permalink)
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When I was indoctronated into right-wing dogma, liberals were the bad guys, but even then they didn't seem as big of "bad guys" as the right seems now after I switched teams.

Liberals were just "They love pissing off Christians, trying to do the opposite of everything we stand for, just for the hell of it, because they hate us."

Where as now I don't like conservatives because "We are litterally destroying the only viable biosphere in the universe because we think we'll get a better one later."

One seems a bigger problem than the other to me.
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Old 05-09-2017, 05:25 PM   #11 (permalink)
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I'm waiting for the next thread to be 'say something nice about Trump' thread.

https://www.pastemagazine.com/articl...g-nice-ab.html
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Old 05-09-2017, 05:33 PM   #12 (permalink)
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But, if you want to know the real reason I have very little tolerance for the whining of these 'white working class' people is because...

1. I AM a white working class people, if you want to get technical.
2. If they would have taken a little bit of time out of their Mountain Dew coupled with FoxNews self-induced haze of hatred and bigotry, and paid attention to something other than the big-mouthed Orange dude who literally lives in a golden tower, they would have realized that Hillary's, and the Democratic party's, policies were to help ALL working class people.

Hillary had a plan to address the hardships of the people in the very regions that went for Trump. Other than rolling back regulations which give those people clean drinking water, Trump had NO plan for them, and still doesn't. There was a pretty strong jobs report for April...but only 6% of the jobs added were in manufacturing or mining. In fact, mining accounted for only 200 jobs. Most were in service or the health field.

Hillary had a plan to help those people displaced by loss of manufacturing or mining work to develop skills in the areas where there IS job growth and will continue to be for at least now.

But, nooooo. They couldn't bother. With some, maybe I can understand...they perhaps don't have access to that information and Trump just talked louder. But there are many others who still have smart phones or internet...they could have done a little research.

If being tolerant means accepting willful ignorance, then no, I can't be very tolerant anymore. And I'm okay with that. When a conversation on healthcare turns into some state representative lecturing me on how he shouldn't have to pay for 'your boyfriend's condoms, ma'am', then I don't even have a desire to hold onto tolerance. I have no time for that kind of ignorance and willful misdirection. I'm done with it.
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Old 05-09-2017, 05:39 PM   #13 (permalink)
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This bullshit? Again? Fuck that.
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Old 05-09-2017, 05:40 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Shiloh found my fave write-up of the day!
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Old 05-09-2017, 05:40 PM   #15 (permalink)
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This bullshit? Again? Fuck that.
That's very intolerant of you.
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Old 05-09-2017, 05:56 PM   #16 (permalink)
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I am so sick and tired of you parading about the board telling us how we are to capitulate, give up our beliefs about equality and reach out for bigots for their vote.

Now, you're telling us how intolerant we are. Fuck off with this nonsense.
The irony is strong with this comment. While the actions of our Republicans in political office disgust me, this all reminds me of many years ago when I first ventured out of Louisiana (surprising how many people on here have history there). Meeting a man from Boston for the very first time, he said in clear words and demeaning tone of voice that people from Louisiana sickened him. That was as clear an example of prejudice as I have ever seen.

I am dismayed today by how some progressive talk shows that I find on YouTube resort to a smirking, simpering attitude so much like what right wing talk shows display.

Yes, there is a danger of false equivalence, but no one is immune to general human frailties. I won't throw a hissy fit when someone points that out.
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Old 05-09-2017, 06:00 PM   #17 (permalink)
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That's very intolerant of you.





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Old 05-09-2017, 06:06 PM   #18 (permalink)
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The irony is strong with this comment. While the actions of our Republicans in political office disgust me, this all reminds me of many years ago when I first ventured out of Louisiana (surprising how many people on here have history there). Meeting a man from Boston for the very first time, he said in clear words and demeaning tone of voice that people from Louisiana sickened him. That was as clear an example of prejudice as I have ever seen.

I am dismayed today by how some progressive talk shows that I find on YouTube resort to a smirking, simpering attitude so much like what right wing talk shows display.

Yes, there is a danger of false equivalence, but no one is immune to general human frailties. I won't throw a hissy fit when someone points that out.

How long did you lurk before posting?

I spent half my life trying to get out of Lousyana (gettin lousier) and now that I am finally out, there is no way in hell I'll ever go back. There is still far more prejudice being displayed by Louisianans than not. If you are a person of color (black, brown, red, yellow) your life will be a living hell. Add being female on top of that? You are well and truly fucked.

And that is coming from a female person of color who grew up in a white family.
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Old 05-09-2017, 06:20 PM   #19 (permalink)
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The irony is strong with this comment.
[...]
Yes, there is a danger of false equivalence, but no one is immune to general human frailties. I won't throw a hissy fit when someone points that out.
You might have missed the message of don't stand your ground, just back up that some of us are interpreting repeatedly.
It's not just a hissy fit. It's more like: oh fuck no. You don't get to even whisper it without blow-back.
What general human frailty are you talking about?
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Old 05-09-2017, 06:25 PM   #20 (permalink)
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The irony is strong with this comment. While the actions of our Republicans in political office disgust me, this all reminds me of many years ago when I first ventured out of Louisiana (surprising how many people on here have history there). Meeting a man from Boston for the very first time, he said in clear words and demeaning tone of voice that people from Louisiana sickened him. That was as clear an example of prejudice as I have ever seen.

I am dismayed today by how some progressive talk shows that I find on YouTube resort to a smirking, simpering attitude so much like what right wing talk shows display.

Yes, there is a danger of false equivalence, but no one is immune to general human frailties. I won't throw a hissy fit when someone points that out.
This entire response has absolutely nothing to do with my post. Nor, was what I posted a "hissy fit".
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Old 05-09-2017, 06:42 PM   #21 (permalink)
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This entire response has absolutely nothing to do with my post. Nor, was what I posted a "hissy fit".
Maybe it was directed more at me. Seems to relate more to my comment than your's. And if so, that's fine. She may not realize that I live in Lancaster County, Pennsylvania. That between Philadelphia and Pittsburgh is a large area called "Pennsyltucky". For a reason. I grew up around these people. And the article in the OP confirmed what I was seeing during the campaign...every Trump sign was on a well-manicured lawn, in front of a nice suburban home, with a 2 car garage...some of them with RV's in the driveways, or boats stored in the backyards. And I knew all along that it wasn't 'economic' stress that caused them to vote for Trump. I knew exactly WHAT it was.

And because of them, we all suffer now. So if calling them out for what they are and not tolerating their ignorance is throwing a 'hissy fit', well then,

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Old 05-09-2017, 06:59 PM   #22 (permalink)
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What general human frailty are you talking about?
Like Deca! said:
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Anyone who thinks of themselves as 100% unbiased is either delusional or fuckstupid.
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You might have missed the message of don't stand your ground, just back up that some of us are interpreting repeatedly.
I dunno what their intended message is. In this case we have academic research filtered through someone writing a Politico article. A lot of noise can be introduced there. I frankly don't care about the Politico article near as much as the reaction I am seeing to it.
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How long did you lurk before posting?
Steadily since last summer.
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I spent half my life trying to get out of Lousyana (gettin lousier) and now that I am finally out, there is no way in hell I'll ever go back.
I'm glad you found a better place. Some people have the strange idea that people who voted for the likes of John Rarick somehow magically disappeared. No, they raised their kids in their ways. Also, Nixon's Southern strategy was fully embraced by the R's.
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Old 05-09-2017, 07:15 PM   #23 (permalink)
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I'm waiting for the next thread to be 'say something nice about Trump' thread.

https://www.pastemagazine.com/articl...g-nice-ab.html
I understand he's very popular in Russia. Is that nice enough?
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Old 05-09-2017, 07:20 PM   #24 (permalink)
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This entire response has absolutely nothing to do with my post.
I think what prompted me was the following.
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I am so sick and tired of you parading about the board telling us how we are to capitulate, give up our beliefs about equality and reach out for bigots for their vote.
I have followed PRS daily for months now, and I don't know who or what you are referring to with this comment. But my "hissy fit" label is directed not to you specifically but a general attitude that I am seeing on SLU and elsewhere. People are really frustrated right now. I don't think people are thinking as clearly as they could. The frustration could be energizing--which is good--but it also has a dark side. (ETA: Two Star Wars references in one thread!)

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Old 05-09-2017, 07:33 PM   #25 (permalink)
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I believe in human rights and human dignity. I also believe in protecting the planet. If this makes me intolerant, oh well.

I also note these beliefs are completely consonant with the religion I actually joined as an adult. I don't think my religion is inferior to that of the fundagelicals, but while I have no reason to interfere with them, they certainly feel entitled to interfere with me, because they think they have the only "true" religion.

Now we have a conundrum, as it appears they're willing to use force and economic exclusion to make me conform to their ways, while the reverse is not true (except in their fantasy projections).

It's not intolerant to point out this playing field is unbalanced and uneven, and would lead inevitably to the end of the rule of law.

As it stands, I already have to watch my back as a queer, pagan woman against violence and economic exclusion, and I know it's even worse for queerfolk who don't "pass" and anyone else who can't hide their differences, including the visibly disabled and people of color.

The propagandists constantly telling me I have to make nice to the same people, some of whom are willing to use force and deception against me for ends they consider righteous, is remarkably similar to the fundagelicals telling a battered wife it's on her to go back home, make nice and make her abuser behave.

The whole discussion stinks of that kind of thinking. Well, no. The privileged people who are willing to use force and violence don't get to pretend nothing is wrong and they don't get to go unchallenged.

It's completely a matter of survival. If privileged fundagelicals are working overtime to compromise the safety and well-being of people who are unlike them, those of us who have some degree of privilege ourselves should *call them out*, not join the White wall of silence and complicity.

Otherwise we might as well be voting for Trump and the Dominionists ourselves. After all, they are "real Americans" and we are not.

Really? Since when was it wrong for liberals to show some ownership of the situation?

I want to end this rant by pointing out that it's only in the imagination of the fascists that a socially liberal but economically capitalist person is a "liberal" rather than a type of conservative. This description doesn't fit me anymore, and I suspect a lot of people have been pushed left by the spectacle of fascist fundagelicals willing to use force and deception to achieve their goals.
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