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Old 04-27-2017, 09:36 PM   #1 (permalink)
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93% of Trump voters approve of the job he is doing.

Poll: Trump voters stand by the president

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Donald Trump is languishing in the polls as he approaches the 100-day mark in the White House, but a new survey released Thursday shows the president’s voters are still firmly in his corner.

The overwhelming majority of Trump voters surveyed by the University of Virginia Center of Politics, 93 percent, approve of the job Trump is doing as president. Only 7 percent of voters who said they cast their ballot for Trump now disapprove of his performance, the poll shows.
This is not good for the Democratic party. While clearly most Americans disapprove of the job Trump is doing, they are largely the same majority of voters who voted for Clinton...and she lost. In the places Democrats need to be making inroads, those Trump voters are still clinging to their Maniac In Chief with both hands.
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Old 04-27-2017, 09:43 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Old 04-27-2017, 10:01 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Quote:
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Poll: Trump voters stand by the president



This is not good for the Democratic party. While clearly most Americans disapprove of the job Trump is doing, they are largely the same majority of voters who voted for Clinton...and she lost. In the places Democrats need to be making inroads, those Trump voters are still clinging to their Maniac In Chief with both hands.
Who cares about his supporters? They were only about 23% of voting age Americans, and that's all they still are. We need to get the almost 50% of Americans who didn't vote out to vote. Trump's followers are a lost cause. We don't need them to win. We need to fight gerrymandering and we need to mobilize voters.
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Old 04-27-2017, 10:23 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Still waiting for all of these Trump voters to come out of the woodwork who voted for him for good reasons.
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Old 04-27-2017, 10:27 PM   #5 (permalink)
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This is not good for the Democratic party.
This is not good for AMERICA. The danger is well beyond a party issue, and I don't really expect a political party to save us from the faction of American society that is lost in bitterness, fear and rage.
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Old 04-27-2017, 10:47 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Who cares about his supporters? They were only about 23% of voting age Americans, and that's all they still are. We need to get the almost 50% of Americans who didn't vote out to vote. Trump's followers are a lost cause. We don't need them to win. We need to fight gerrymandering and we need to mobilize voters.
It matters a lot because, if we have learned anything, it is not how many votes you get, but where those votes come from. This isn't France. We are not losing the electoral college anytime soon, and both parties gerrymander districts when they are in power so, good luck with that. I would hardly say that Trump voters are a lost cause since a fraction of them came from pretty solid blue states that a party is going to have to win in order to win the presidency. Yes, it was a tiny portion of Democrats that had supported Obama and went for Trump and put the dagger in Clinton's chest but, because of where they live, they DO matter. Ask any leading Democratic politician if we can win without them. Please, read the article. When you see their main reason for supporting Trump ("He hit the ground running" or "He shook things up" Yawn!), this would not seem like that big a hurdle for any party to overcome.

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Old 04-27-2017, 11:06 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Trump supporters are dumbfucks.

News at 11.
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Old 04-27-2017, 11:08 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Trump supporters are dumbfucks.

News at 11.
I don't think anyone is arguing that.
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Old 04-27-2017, 11:11 PM   #9 (permalink)
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I'm sure Trump supporters would. They'd be wrong though.
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Old 04-27-2017, 11:31 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Still waiting for all of these Trump voters to come out of the woodwork who voted for him for good reasons.
They live in rural America.

And most of them fall into most of the stereotypes you can think of.

Trust me, I live here.
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Old 04-28-2017, 05:59 AM   #11 (permalink)
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Quote:
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Please, read the article. When you see their main reason for supporting Trump ("He hit the ground running" or "He shook things up" Yawn!), this would not seem like that big a hurdle for any party to overcome.
This is what they said, and it may even be what they tell themselves, but it's not even remotely true.

Donald Trump lied to them. Big, obvious lies. He tapped into deep reservoirs of hate and fear and bigotry and told his supporters that only he was the strong man who could save them. And they chose to believe him despite all the evidence to the contrary, and despite all standards of basic human decency.

They chose Trump over Clinton because they had swallowed decades of outrageous unfounded anti-Clinton propaganda (with a side helping of misogyny). And even if everything said about Clinton was true, every crime she committed paled in comparison to Trump's record as a shady, self-aggrandizing narcissist who colluded with the Mafia (and the Russians).

We know EXACTLY how to appeal to Trump's supporters, but it's a tremendous hurdle and you get over it with dog whistles to the darkest side of Americans. Unfortunately, "winning" in that way is a complete capitulation to the worst aspects of this country and it betrays everyone else.
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Old 04-28-2017, 08:49 AM   #12 (permalink)
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When you see their main reason for supporting Trump ("He hit the ground running" or "He shook things up" Yawn!), this would not seem like that big a hurdle for any party to overcome.
If those really are the reasons (and I don't believe for a second that the reasons are so benign), then the hurdle that must be overcome is that fact that a significant section of the adult population have the moral development, emotional stability and political judgement of a teenage edgelord and no sense of long-term consequences. Which would seem like a huge hurdle to me.
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Old 04-28-2017, 09:24 AM   #13 (permalink)
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By saying that its up to democrats to fix things, you're ignoring the fact that both parties and their refusal to acknowledge over 40% of the voting populace are the problem.

The democrats alone can't fix this, and the republicans alone didn't cause this mess. Until Democrats are ready to go 'Hey, independents, this is why you should vote for us.' and not just try and appeal to the 'independent middle', as if that's the only reason there IS a chunk of the populace that are Independent, then they won't win this.

Also, until the DNC and the DCCC is ready to actually help ALL democrats get elected, and not just the ones who fit their neo-liberal, establishment leanings? Then they are playing into the hands of the GOP, because once they lose enough states? Then we are well and truly fucked, because then they can just change the constitution to suit themselves.
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Old 04-28-2017, 10:28 AM   #14 (permalink)
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If those really are the reasons (and I don't believe for a second that the reasons are so benign), then the hurdle that must be overcome is that fact that a significant section of the adult population have the moral development, emotional stability and political judgement of a teenage edgelord and no sense of long-term consequences. Which would seem like a huge hurdle to me.
There may not even BE a solution. These people, aren't going to change.

Ever.

Especially not after Trump won, because it proves their empowerment, which was my main worry over Trump winning int he first place, not that Trump himself would be bad. Trump is an idiot but even with the all GOP government, he's a useless nothing blip. The real harm comes from the empowerment given to his voters. The empowerment that says "Oh look, you aren't a dying fringe like you worried, all these people voted with you."

Social and societal progress, which I do feel had started to get a little TOO progressive, will be set back decades by this. It's all reactionary to that "Too progressive" to some extent.

All of the education and facts and whatever will never change these people's mindset. That's just now how the human brain works, it's part of why it's easier to learn and become a person when you are younger, you are just more naturally elastic. I'm not saying none of them will change or that it's impossible to change, but the vast majority simply won't. And now that they are empowered, they can roll things back and push their recessionist agenda and it will ultimately end up poisoning the next generation more than ti would have had they lost this round.
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Old 04-28-2017, 10:49 AM   #15 (permalink)
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The headline figure of "93% approval" is, I think, misleading.

While I've not looked at the report in any great detail, I see that the approval figures among Trump voters are
  • Strongly Approve: 42%
  • Somewhat Approve: 51%
  • Somewhat Disapprove: 6%
  • Strongly Disapprove 1%
UVA Center for Politics Project: First 100 Days Online Survey & Focus Groups p 11.

The Center for Politics characterise this as
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Trump’s approval is high overall, but a little soft. A 42% strong approval with his base is good but not great.
Similarly, they characterise the response of the Trump voters' focus groups to the question “Would you say that things in the country are going in the right direction, or have they pretty seriously gotten off on the wrong track?” as While Trump voters are optimistic about the direction of the country, they still express significant concern about how things are going.

At first sight it seems to me that people who admit to having voted for Trump are far more prepared than anyone else to give him the benefit of the doubt (people who didn't vote for him seem in complete agreement that he's a hopeless disaster, which is very different from the case with earlier administrations) but those doubts are certainly there.
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Old 04-28-2017, 10:58 AM   #16 (permalink)
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It's been a long standing observation that after an election, people tend to remember that they voted for the loser, if the winner isn't going the way they wanted.
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Old 04-28-2017, 11:06 AM   #17 (permalink)
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There may not even BE a solution. These people, aren't going to change.
I read our situation slightly differently. I believe that these people are more a canary-in-the-mine symptom of other forces at work, societal forces that bring out the worst in people.

It's easy to be a "good person" in a strong economy with plentiful resources, just as it's easy to confuse being "nice" with being "good". When economies constrict, when resources are more and more inequitably distributed, "nice" people crack under the strain. They weren't consciously hiding their true colors, it's more that that they hadn't been put to the test before. Now that things are getting a bit rough, however, fear and anger swamp generosity and justice.

No one likes being the villain, so formerly-nice people all try their best to justify why they're now acting like bad people. They blame others, they say the game is rigged against them, they play the victim because they MUST be the victim in order to justify their actions.

If times change for the better, then people will miraculously improve. The overwhelming feelings of fear will subside. The better side of people's nature will emerge and express itself.

We all like to feel that we're the agents of our natures. But sadly, so much of what we feel and do is driven by context. We live in dangerous times because the societal context is shifting and lurching so much, upsetting large numbers of people who up until recently felt entitled to safe and comfortable lives.

There may be some minor ups and down along the road, but I firmly believe that the overall condition of the world -- and our place in it -- is going to get worse, not better. Which means people will get worse too. A lot worse.

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Old 04-28-2017, 11:38 AM   #18 (permalink)
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Old 04-28-2017, 12:25 PM   #19 (permalink)
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"No one needs morality, when there isn't enough to eat" -New Model Army, The Charge
Erst kommt das Fressen, dann kommt die Moral ("Food first, then morals" Berthold Brecht, The Threepenny Opera

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Old 04-28-2017, 12:42 PM   #20 (permalink)
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The head of the AFL-CIO sums it up way better than I can, so I am just going to drop this off here and move on.

Trumka’s Warning to Democrats: Say What You Mean—and Mean What You Say

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That said, he’s mindful of the fact that Trump spoke compellingly to a portion of his rank and file, so he’s keeping a semi-open mind. “We’re just telling [members] every day what he’s doing to help them or hurt them,” he says. “If he does something to help ’em I say it. If he does something to hurt ’em I say it. They can decide for themselves who’s friend and who’s foe.”
We spent more of our 50 minutes together talking about the Democrats than we did about Trump. He didn’t want to lay into Hillary Clinton personally, but he did point out to me that fact about her doing less well among his members than Obama had, and he had some sharp words for the Democratic message in last year’s campaign—and for Bill Clinton.
“The Democratic Party quite frankly had no coherent economic message,” he said. “Workers have been facing stagnant wages, dropping benefits, and economic security being taken away from them over a 40-year period. Trump said a lot of stuff—hasn’t followed through on it, but said it, and they were willing to take a chance.”

The problems, he said, started under Bill Clinton. “I think that was the beginning of the schizophrenic days, when they needed workers’ votes but wanted Wall Street money, so they tried to serve two masters but were successful at neither,” says Trumka.
But didn’t Bill Clinton do a number of good things? I mean, 22 million jobs?
“People still weren’t getting wage increases,” he says. “The economy was still moving away from us.”
And what of Barack Obama?
Slight pause, then: “A well-intentioned guy. I think he had a good heart. You have to put him in context. He had a Congress determined not to let him do anything. They spooked him early on… It’s not like he had a fair chance on the playing field. He could have done more workers, but all in all, he tried.”
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Old 04-28-2017, 02:51 PM   #21 (permalink)
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How these young Republicans rate Donald Trump's 1st 100 days - Home | The Current with Anna Maria Tremonti | CBC

If you prefer Audio | CBC Radio
Listening to the reasons they give and the way they see Trump's first 100 days had me pulling my hair in disbelief...




(Also, even though it isn't about Trump voters, I'll also leave you another part of the show on his 1st 100 days here because I found it interesting.)
Washington journalists share challenges covering 100 days of Trump - CBC
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Old 04-28-2017, 10:43 PM   #22 (permalink)
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There may be some minor ups and down along the road, but I firmly believe that the overall condition of the world -- and our place in it -- is going to get worse, not better. Which means people will get worse too. A lot worse.
I worry about this as well.

I feel like one massive elephant in the room that very few people with any power are talking about is that work, jobs, are going away.

It's not going to be like the industrial revolution, automation is going to obliterate jobs by the thousands and it's going to happen very quickly once it starts. Yeah, there will need to be some support and some jobs won't be as quickly automated out but the replacement is not going to be anywhere near the pace of the disappearance.
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Old 04-29-2017, 08:32 AM   #23 (permalink)
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This is what they said, and it may even be what they tell themselves, but it's not even remotely true.

Donald Trump lied to them. Big, obvious lies. He tapped into deep reservoirs of hate and fear and bigotry and told his supporters that only he was the strong man who could save them. And they chose to believe him despite all the evidence to the contrary, and despite all standards of basic human decency.
One of the frustrating ones was that he alone would bring back coal jobs. How exactly? They left because of advances in technology. A job someone in your family did just will not exist in the same exact form for generations anymore.

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Old 04-29-2017, 09:01 AM   #24 (permalink)
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This is not good for the Democratic party.
Should we just start killing his fanatics off or something? I mean really, how exactly are you seeing the Dems winning these people over to our side?

Myself, I'm focused on more important things.
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Old 04-29-2017, 04:03 PM   #25 (permalink)
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It's not going to be like the industrial revolution, automation is going to obliterate jobs by the thousands and it's going to happen very quickly once it starts. Yeah, there will need to be some support and some jobs won't be as quickly automated out but the replacement is not going to be anywhere near the pace of the disappearance.
The real conundrum can be summarized by this question:

"If robots take all our jobs, who's going to buy the stuff they make?"

And it's not just corporate revenue that will fall. Income, sales, and property taxes all depend on personal income as a source. If jobs go away, so will personal income, and the taxes based on them. The whole economic system will be destabilized, unless we figure out a different way to go about it.
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