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Old 05-09-2017, 09:36 PM   #126 (permalink)
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This article is probably as close to perfect as they will come to explain what is happening.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/05/04/o...ir-enemies.htm

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Over the past 50 years, overarching and underlying conflicts about morality, family, autonomy, religious conviction, fairness and even patriotism have been forced into two relatively weak vessels, the Democratic Party and the Republican Party. The political system is not equipped to resolve these social and cultural conflicts, which produce a gamut of emotions, often outside our conscious awareness. Threatening issues — conflicts over race, immigration, sexuality and many other questions that cut to the core of how we see ourselves and the people around us — cannot be contained in ordinary political speech, even as these issues dominate our political decision-making.

It is Trump’s willingness to violate the boundaries of conventional discourse that has granted him immunity to mainstream criticism. Pretty much everything he does that goes overboard helps him. He is given a free hand by those who feel in their gut that he is fighting their fight — that he is their leader and their defender. As the enemy of their enemies, President Trump is their friend.
This commenter from the article also touches on something.

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All political divides are ultimately cultural. People don't vote their interests - they vote their identities. How can liberals still cling to the pseudo-Marxist notion that Trump supporters are just "deluded" about their choice and that economic hardships will "open their eyes"? I can tell you with absolute certainty that there will be people whose children will die because of the abolition of ACA and who will still support Trump. It is a culture war and it is pitiful to see how I'll-prepared the Democrats are for this kind of warfare. There is a video making rounds of the Russian Internet that shows Putin raping Russia, while the people, depicted as a flock of sheep, are passively looking on. It is crude and provocative - and it works. If even one on a hundred Russians is slapped into being ashamed of their passivity, Putin will be in trouble. Where is the American equivalent? Where is the voice that tells to the heartland: you are sheep, being led to the slaughter and praising your butcher?
The answer: they are railing against the elite calling them sheep, that is what is happening here.
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Old 05-10-2017, 02:27 AM   #127 (permalink)
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Old 05-10-2017, 06:19 PM   #128 (permalink)
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Just reposting your link, Cristalle, because it didn't work for me.

President Trump is the Enemy of Their Enemies - The New York Times
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Old 05-11-2017, 09:38 PM   #129 (permalink)
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That is a LOT of special white snowflakes...a blizzard. That makes up a huge part of the Midwest, which Democrats will often need to defend against the South. So if you want to get a democrat elected in the White House, what do you do? Write them all off as crazy and ignore them? Try to reach out to them? Wait for them to just die off?Try to put together another voting block out of groups that have not historically voted in as large of numbers? This anxiety is real, and I do not think there really is an easy answer, but Democrats will have to find a way to break into this group in these areas if it wants to win a national race.
What would it do to the Democrat party to cozy up to those voters?
What would they lose?
Who would they lose?

If these folks are the conservative people fearful of change and of equality, then what?
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Old 05-12-2017, 06:33 AM   #130 (permalink)
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The Democrats lost working class Southern Whites when Lyndon Johnson chose to promote civil rights. He knew that this action would fracture the party, but he did what was right anyway.

"Winning back" that faction is capitulation to bigotry and throws non-white minorities under the bus.

So fine, go pander to the bigots. Enjoy your victory. You can throw a party without me, cause I won't be a member of that party.
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Old 05-18-2017, 06:01 AM   #131 (permalink)
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I came across this today:
In Pro-Trump media land, the last week's been irrelevant or just 'fake news' | Stuff.co.nz

Eyes opened on how the echo chambers work in the US right.
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Old 05-18-2017, 10:12 AM   #132 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Ashiri View Post
I came across this today:
In Pro-Trump media land, the last week's been irrelevant or just 'fake news' | Stuff.co.nz

Eyes opened on how the echo chambers work in the US right.
Though as the New York Times reports,
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In recent days, the radio host Michael Savage has acknowledged “the administration is in trouble.” John Podhoretz in the New York Post and later The Wall Street Journal’s editorial page each compared Trump to Jimmy Carter — the most damning of all conservative indictments.

Then there’s Ann Coulter. In an interview with The Daily Caller, the author of “In Trump We Trust” said of the presidency that “it has been such a disaster so far,” and that it was possible that “the Trump-haters were right.” She even dropped the f-bomb — “fascist” — to describe Trump’s hiring of his relatives to senior White House posts.

“If I’ve lost Cronkite, I’ve lost Middle America,” Lyndon Johnson is reputed to have said (perhaps it’s apocryphal) after the CBS anchorman said in 1968 that the Vietnam War was unwinnable.

Just so for Trump: If he’s lost Coulter, he’s lost angry America. That’s not his entire base, but — let’s face it — it’s a critical fraction of it.
Obviously a few defections don't mean his hard-core support is collapsing, but I think his situation can easily, and rapidly, deteriorate.
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Old 05-18-2017, 11:22 AM   #133 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Ashiri View Post
I came across this today:
In Pro-Trump media land, the last week's been irrelevant or just 'fake news' | Stuff.co.nz

Eyes opened on how the echo chambers work in the US right.
The other day on the CSAPN call in show, one of the callers suggested that Trump leaking things was just fake news and there was no proof.

Except you know, when Trump himself tweeted that he did it.
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Old 05-19-2017, 11:22 AM   #134 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Beebo Brink View Post
The Democrats lost working class Southern Whites when Lyndon Johnson chose to promote civil rights. He knew that this action would fracture the party, but he did what was right anyway.

"Winning back" that faction is capitulation to bigotry and throws non-white minorities under the bus.

So fine, go pander to the bigots. Enjoy your victory. You can throw a party without me, cause I won't be a member of that party.
I agree with you on a moral point, but if you take an all or nothing approach, it's looking like we may end up with nothing.

Blue states are usually blue because of their big urban cities, yet all the outlying rural counties within the same blue state tend to be firmly red. This makes sense because in an urban area, you are exposed to a plethora of ethnicities and as a result, you will eventually be confronted if you decide to hold onto bigotry and racism. Holding onto bigotry and racism in an urban area tends to be a difficult path (loss of business/jobs, legal issues, and many other downfalls). Even Texas has a lot of blue in the urban areas.

In rural areas, there is much less diversity and it is far easier to hold onto racism and bigotry without the negative impacts that occur in urban populations. In a way, rural areas are similar to internet anonymity. You can be an anonymous ass with very little repercussion. In reality, the rural red aren't 'bad' people, they simply don't have many real-life sources to challenge their ignorance.

IMO, we do need to start 'pandering' to the bigotry of the rural areas. We need to reach out and help change their world views in a way that actually actually affects their personal life in a positive way. This whole GOP train wreck is the equivalent of the internet or a TV show to most of rural America. A lot of the GOP issues don't affect them in a realistic way. With the GOP, they get to keep living the status quo (or so they think). But the Democrat issues only seem to affect them in a negative manner, because most of it barely applies to their little bubble of existence, yet it still causes them to lose jobs, pay more for environmental regulations, challenges their beliefs, and etc.

To them, the democrats make mountains of molehills. As far as their life experienced is concerned, most of the democratic issues are little blips in their world that only affect a tiny number of people, yet cost quite a bit to enforce. The GOP on the other hand lies to them, tells them that their ignorance is factual and correct, and tells them that dems are to blame for all their hardships.

We do need some way to bridge that ignorance and lack of diversity. Thats not going to happen without 'pandering' to them to some degree. We need to figure out how to actually change these peoples' opinions, not just force them the reluctantly submit while they harbor a seething hatred for the opposite party to such a degree that they will oppose democrat even if it means giving the presidency to a reality show baboon.

The whole "So fine, go pander to the bigots. Enjoy your victory. You can throw a party without me, cause I won't be a member of that party." sounds a lot like the hardline Sanders supporters who wouldn't vote democrat because of Hillary. Yay! They sure showed those bad democrats the error of their ways...it only cost the GOP winning and an orange baboon to be president. Such victory.
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Old 05-20-2017, 09:59 PM   #135 (permalink)
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It's not just rural ignorance, it's a matter of identity, including religious identity. While I think hearts can still be changed, the kind of effort it would take shouldn't be underestimated. I still don't think this is a merely political problem and it will take much more than typical politics to put a dent in it. Core cultural issues will have to be addressed, mostly by current or former insiders who can get credibility with the intended audience. Culture change is not a new work, but mere politics has never been more than a fraction of it.
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Old 05-21-2017, 01:16 AM   #136 (permalink)
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"Economic anxiety"

Trump Supporters Threaten to Hang Congressman, Who Called for President’s Impeachment, ‘From a Fucking Tree’

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Recorded death threats received by Democratic Texas Congressman Al Green, who this week called for the impeachment of President Donald Trump, are some of the vilest, most racist attacks you’re likely to hear in a good while. (Or, maybe not.) And unsurprisingly, they come from Trump supporters.

Green played the recordings during a packed town hall in Houston on Saturday, where he had come to explain to constituents why he thinks impeaching Trump is imperative. He also wanted everyone to know just what he’s been dealing with in the past couple of days.

“You can decide for yourself what we’re dealing with,” he tells town hall attendees before the audio recordings of the death threats start to roll.

“Try it,” the first caller threatens, referring to impeaching Trump, “and we’ll lynch all you fucking n****rs, you’ll be hanging from a tree. I didn’t see anybody calling for the impeachment of your n****r Obama when he was born in Kenya. He’s not even an American. So, fuck you, n****r.”

The second caller makes the same threat. Green said his staff had also recorded a third similar message.
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Old 05-21-2017, 08:01 AM   #137 (permalink)
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Now, now, now...let's not be 'intolerant' of their poor anxieties and fears of cultural displacement. The Democratic party needs to 'reach out' to these people in an attempt to 'understand' their fears and concerns so that we can 'win back' their support by addressing what they are most afraid of.

Apparently, that means the Democratic party should hang all black people. Or something.

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Old 05-21-2017, 11:51 AM   #138 (permalink)
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Now, now, now...let's not be 'intolerant' of their poor anxieties and fears of cultural displacement. The Democratic party needs to 'reach out' to these people in an attempt to 'understand' their fears and concerns so that we can 'win back' their support by addressing what they are most afraid of.

Apparently, that means the Democratic party should hang all black people. Or something.



Wait. Wait. The Dems can't win back support they never had.
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Old 05-21-2017, 12:26 PM   #139 (permalink)
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http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer...over-up.html?0

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And then, on the little shuttle bus on the tarmac to the plane at Reagan National, I found myself sitting next to a recently retired pilot, who struck up a very pleasant conversation. He told me about a recent career change, retirement, his family, and his new neighbors who had left England to escape “the Muslims.” Okay, I thought. No need to make a scene. Just listen for a while. At one point, I gingerly indicated that I didn’t exactly share the views of his neighbors. “Oh I understand,” he said. “My wife is always telling me never to talk about religion or politics with strangers, but I can’t help myself.” No problem, I told him. I do it all the time too. Then he leaned in, pushed his wire eyeglasses up his nose, and looked straight into my eyes. “Let me tell you something,” he said. “This president will be the greatest president we have ever had in our entire history.”

Once in Mississippi, I did my daily scanning of the conservative media. The alternative story was now well-established. Trump had fired Comey because he had a right to (just like he had an “absolute” right to tell Moscow top-secret intel), and because Comey was incompetent and had screwed up the Clinton-email case. The intel gaffe was just a slip-up that wouldn’t matter much at all. There was no evidence of any connection between the Russian government and the Trump campaign — and so the investigation was hooey anyway. Comey’s memo couldn’t be talked about without the full context — so lets just wait and see. Comey was just interested in revenge anyway. The mainstream media and the “deep state” were busy trying to undermine a president who was accomplishing more than any president this early into his term.
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Old 05-21-2017, 04:18 PM   #140 (permalink)
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Quote:
And then, on the little shuttle bus on the tarmac to the plane at Reagan National, I found myself sitting next to a recently retired pilot, who struck up a very pleasant conversation. He told me about a recent career change, retirement, his family, and his new neighbors who had left England to escape “the Muslims.” Okay, I thought. No need to make a scene. Just listen for a while. At one point, I gingerly indicated that I didn’t exactly share the views of his neighbors. “Oh I understand,” he said. “My wife is always telling me never to talk about religion or politics with strangers, but I can’t help myself.” No problem, I told him. I do it all the time too. Then he leaned in, pushed his wire eyeglasses up his nose, and looked straight into my eyes. “Let me tell you something,” he said. “This president will be the greatest president we have ever had in our entire history.”
And now you know why I don't talk to people I don't know in involuntary group situations, like on transportation, or waiting in lines at the store or whatever.

Also, I have a dream that one day, every plane will be connected to the terminal by a jetway as it should be, and absurdly anachronistic means of transferring passengers to and from them like air-stairs/ramps and tarmac shuttle buses will be left back in the ancient past where they belong. Seriously, why on Earth are passengers having to actually take a vehicle out onto the tarmac and then walk up a set of dodgy old steel stairs to get into a jet airliner, at a major international airport in the US capital in 2017????
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Old 05-22-2017, 02:42 PM   #141 (permalink)
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This GOP State Representative is filled to the brim with economic anxiety.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...ppi/336237001/

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A Mississippi lawmaker recommended lynching over the weekend for New Orleans' leaders who have had four Confederate monuments dismantled in the past month, and it took until Monday — under pressure from state politicians — for him to apologize.

In a Saturday Facebook post, state Rep. Karl Oliver, a Republican from Winona, also compared the actions of Crescent City officials to Nazis.

The last of the Confederate-era monuments was removed early Friday. The 16-foot-tall bronze statue of Gen. Robert E. Lee was removed from its perch high above St. Charles Avenue on Lee Circle where the Confederate general had stood watch for 133 years.

'The destruction of these monuments, erected in the loving memory of our family and fellow Southern Americans, is both heinous and horrific. If the, and I use this term extremely loosely, "leadership" of Louisiana wishes to, in a Nazi-ish fashion, burn books or destroy historical monuments of OUR HISTORY, they should be LYNCHED! Let it be known, I will do all in my power to prevent this from happening in our State.'
Also note that the "apology" was over using the word lynched. He didn't apologize for recommending the murder of US officials and citizens.
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Old 05-22-2017, 11:01 PM   #142 (permalink)
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And now you know why I don't talk to people I don't know in involuntary group situations, like on transportation, or waiting in lines at the store or whatever.
You would hate sitting or standing anywhere close to me.
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Old 05-23-2017, 12:31 AM   #143 (permalink)
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