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Old 05-01-2017, 03:26 PM   #51 (permalink)
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The whining about how the DNC abandoned white people is beyond me, and the "poor me" whining in this thread by white people is pissing me right off. Between the two parties, they are the ONLY ones who want to help poor and working class people of any stripe.

Yes, if you voted for Trump, you are beyond stupid, and probably vile as well. There, I said it. I don't give a shit how much college you had, you got taken in by a lying con, all because you don't want to share and play nicely with other poor and working class people (aka anyone who isn't white, and let's add women in there too, as that played a huge part in this goddamn election).
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Old 05-01-2017, 03:50 PM   #52 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jolene Benoir View Post
The whining about how the DNC abandoned white people is beyond me, and the "poor me" whining in this thread by white people is pissing me right off.
OMG. You and me both. In case my prior posts didn't make it obvious.

Quote:
Yes, if you voted for Trump, you are beyond stupid, and probably vile as well. There, I said it. I don't give a shit how much college you had, you got taken in by a lying con, all because you don't want to share and play nicely with other poor and working class people (aka anyone who isn't white, and let's add women in there too, as that played a huge part in this goddamn election).
I'm going to expand on this to add that if you cast a "protest" vote.. loudly... you were heard. By the non criminal immigrant mother of 4 who never hurt anyone but who now can't be with her 3 year old epileptic daughter because her daughter's here and she's been deported. You were heard by the people with pre-existing conditions who might lose the protection of not being denied coverage. You were heard by the swamp people who now inhabit the White House. You were heard by all the people who have suffered more and longer than you and now will suffer even more.

Yeah. You were heard and you can now take pride in that, if that's how you roll. Good for you. Hope it works out the way you expect and hope for.
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Old 05-01-2017, 04:16 PM   #53 (permalink)
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It's not too complicated.

If you voted for a slate of candidates who quite openly advocated belligerent, racist, sexist, homophobic, toxic policies then you want America's policies to be belligerent, racist, sexist, homophobic, and toxic.

It doesn't matter what your sexual orientation is, what race you are, what races your friends are, or what your (or their) gender identification might be. It doesn't even matter if you are, generally, a Really Nice Guy.

Voting for those policies means you are ............. well, since you've been to college and all, I'm sure you can connect the dots.
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Old 05-01-2017, 08:28 PM   #54 (permalink)
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This article seemed fitting to this thread, and especially this (rather long) excerpt:

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Tom Nichols, a Naval War College professor, is the author of a poignant new book, “The Death of Expertise: The Campaign Against Established Knowledge and Why It Matters.” Nichols dissected the current dominance of social media and with it the rise of a phenomenon in which nonexperts believe they’re experts in everything, while refusing to accept the word of actual experts. There couldn’t be a volume better suited for the Age of Trump, when disinformation, whether domestic or foreign in origin, is so heavily dragging the discourse away from facts and reality.

In a recap of Trump’s first 100 days, Nichols also published an article for USA Today in which he observed that Trump’s voters aren’t bothered by his incompetence because they don’t possess enough of a basic understanding of politics to recognize why his presidency is such a calamity.

“It is a matter of political literacy,” Nichols wrote. “The fact of the matter is that too many Trump supporters do not hold the president responsible for his mistakes or erratic behavior because they are incapable of recognizing them as mistakes. They lack the foundational knowledge and basic political engagement required to know the difference between facts and errors, or even between truth and lies.”

It shouldn’t require a higher education in American government to be an informed voter. But when voters begin experimenting with the presidency, as is the case with an untested, inexperienced celebrity like Trump, it’s obvious they lack the basic vocabulary to understand why this experiment will surely fail. Worse, this political illiteracy prevents voters from having a clear understanding of what could happen if an erratic cartoon supervillain becomes president. In other words, Trumpers failed to grasp the catastrophic consequences of their ill-conceived experiment. Then again, who can blame them when the conservative entertainment complex and the entire Republican Party — along with, yes, Russian intelligence operatives — helped to confirm their biases?

Elsewhere, the cable news media has been actively scolding anyone who condescends to Trump voters for their uninformed, knee-jerk decisions. OK, we don’t have to be jerks about it, but we can’t reinforce this lack of political literacy by allowing it to become normalized or widely accepted. When American citizens make stupid, existentially flawed decisions, they should be corrected. We can’t wait for a thousand horrible things to collapse on our heads so Trumpers will finally see the light. Nichols wrote in his USA Today piece, “Even so, the unwillingness of so many of [Trump’s] supporters to hold him to even a minimal standard of accountability means that a certain amount of condescension from the rest of us is unavoidable.” Exactly.
Donald Trump thought being president “would be easier” — and so did his deeply ignorant voters - Salon.com
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Old 05-01-2017, 09:29 PM   #55 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Nebula View Post
and I wish people would stop automatically assuming I am a vile piece of shit because of how I voted.
Too bad. You are and many have no problem forever letting you know this.
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Old 05-01-2017, 11:06 PM   #56 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nebula View Post
I did not vote out of bitterness, fear, or rage, and I wish people would stop automatically assuming I am a vile piece of shit because of how I voted.

...

Rude. I am actually intelligent. Average intelligence probably, but I have went to college, I did 6 semesters of government too. When you assume, you make an ass out of you and me.

...

I am a gay white male from a major city? I am all for legal immigration? I have friends from pretty much every race and walk of life, and a lot of trans friends? Is this stereotype open minded people?
I am genuinely, honestly curious here: Given your credentials, why Trump? What did Trump have to offer that none of the other candidates did?
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Old 05-01-2017, 11:20 PM   #57 (permalink)
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Quote:
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Rude. I am actually intelligent. Average intelligence probably, but I have went to college, I did 6 semesters of government too. When you assume, you make an ass out of you and me.
You voted for trump so this is hard to believe.



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Originally Posted by Nebula View Post
I am a gay white male from a major city? I am all for legal immigration? I have friends from pretty much every race and walk of life, and a lot of trans friends? Is this stereotype open minded people?


But not all Trump supporters are terrible awful evil racist people. Most of the people I know that voted for him are gay, trans, or legal Mexican immigrants. Cue the hate train.
People who voted for trump might not technically be terrible awful evil racist people (certainly doesn't help their case against it) but they supported one who is, and they're dumb too.
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Old 05-01-2017, 11:22 PM   #58 (permalink)
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Old 05-01-2017, 11:28 PM   #59 (permalink)
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If you believe Warren's point connects in any way with Trump voters giving him an almost universal thumb's up, might you try explaining it to this poor stupid citizen?
Sure. As she says. people are angry at the government that they feel is supposed to be looking out for them.. That is a common thread with the Trumpaholics, he even fed on that anger to get elected.. Being poor and scared will make over look just about anything, including comments about pussy grabbing. As Mahar points out, she has the correct message, but no one in middle America trusts her. Again. Having the right message, but failing to get it across.

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No. It wasn't. This whole "You're a zealot for voting any beliefs but fundamentalist." is very familiar to me.

It's the same old song I've heard a thousand times before and from the same sources. "Be more practical!"
You should ALWAYS vote your beliefs. I have not read anything by anyone in this thread suggesting otherwise. We are just discussing crafting a political message and running a campaign to reach the most people in the right places in order to win a national election. At least I am.

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Originally Posted by Shiloh Lyric View Post
"The White Working Class". I'm getting really fucked off with seeing that constantly. The Democratic Party abandoned the "White Working class", huh? Shouldn't we just have a Working Class that's not racially divided?
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Originally Posted by Jolene Benoir View Post
The whining about how the DNC abandoned white people is beyond me, and the "poor me" whining in this thread by white people is pissing me right off. Between the two parties, they are the ONLY ones who want to help poor and working class people of any stripe.

Yes, if you voted for Trump, you are beyond stupid, and probably vile as well. There, I said it. I don't give a shit how much college you had, you got taken in by a lying con, all because you don't want to share and play nicely with other poor and working class people (aka anyone who isn't white, and let's add women in there too, as that played a huge part in this goddamn election).
I challenge either of you to find comment in this thread where I mentioned “white working class”. I hate the phrase just much as you do. (I also hate the phrase “Black Lives Matter” which I am sure someone will give me shit about but I don't care.) It is not about color and it has not been for a while. It is about being a part of the working poor vs. being financially secure.

Now the Democrats have a better plan to make more poor people financially secure, they just have not figured out how to convey that message. The Republicans have fear and they know how get that message out very easily, often with the help of Democrats

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a significant section of the adult population have the moral development, emotional stability and political judgement of a teenage edgelord and no sense of long-term consequences.
Is there any doubt? Turn on your television.
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Old 05-01-2017, 11:29 PM   #60 (permalink)
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I'd be surprised if Nebula even replies.

His modus operandi seems to be to seek out the thread filled with people wondering how the fuck Trump was elected, come out with a bunch of random shite, then cry victim and flounce when people ask him why he voted for Trump.

Example: see the Election Night thread.

I'm not sure if it's some sort of bored attempt at a troll or if he really is that dim. Since he voted for Trump I'll assume a bit of both.
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Old 05-01-2017, 11:43 PM   #61 (permalink)
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It is not about color and it has not been for a while. It is about being a part of the working poor vs. being financially secure.
I fully appreciate the intent, but I disagree. It IS about color. Still.

Everything you said about the working class in this post and in posts before and after is true, but people of color are still at a disadvantage (not a legal one, but one that exists nonetheless) simply because they ARE "people of color'.

That really can't be successfully denied. Racism still runs deep in this country and this country was originally settled by European Caucasians. People like that are deemed 'eligible' by default. Everyone else has to prove themselves.

That's racism. We fight it tooth and nail and with each generation it gets hammered down more. But it is still there.
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Old 05-02-2017, 03:11 AM   #62 (permalink)
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The white working class, and the fact that they hold us in obvious contempt is why we left.
If this is a fact, you will have no problem giving an example of how the working class . . . white working class had been held in contempt, right? I'm anxious to hear it.

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Even with hindsight and knowing what I know now - I wouldn't change my vote if they decided to do a redo tomorrow, nor would any member of my family that I've talked to.
You don't even need hindsight if you've watched this board through the last year. You're quite satisfied the way things are, which is, kind of vile.

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some sort of magic privilege for being white.
So - after mocking the concept of white privilege as something magical because you don't want to consider it, and thought it relevant enough to begin your post - you still end it trying to convince us that race was not an issue. You probably displayed a deplorable moniker proudly. Why should it bother you now?
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Old 05-02-2017, 05:08 AM   #63 (permalink)
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Is there any doubt? Turn on your television.
Right, but the question was whether or not they can be reasoned with and won over, what kind of hurdle that poses. Not whether there is any doubt they exist.
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Old 05-02-2017, 06:09 AM   #64 (permalink)
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I am a gay white male from a major city
The Turkey who voted for Christmas, starring Nebula at a gay conversion clinic cinema near you, now.
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Old 05-02-2017, 08:07 AM   #65 (permalink)
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People are generally idiots. The only time you should lodge a protest vote is if your state is so solidly one color or the other that you would bet your life of the local results without a hint of hesitation. If you live somewhere at all purple treat your vote as if it was the sole deciding ballot in your state/county/district. Decide where your vote will do the most good, even if you have to hold your nose to do it.

Do not like it? Move somewhere where the vote is so lopsided it does not matter who you vote for or even if you vote.
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Old 05-02-2017, 05:49 PM   #66 (permalink)
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I wish people would stop automatically assuming I am a vile piece of shit because of how I voted.
I think you're a vile piece of shit because of how you acted in Guardians of the Galaxy:

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Old 05-02-2017, 06:41 PM   #67 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Soda Sullivan View Post





I challenge either of you to find comment in this thread where I mentioned “white working class”. I hate the phrase just much as you do. (I also hate the phrase “Black Lives Matter” which I am sure someone will give me shit about but I don't care.) It is not about color and it has not been for a while. It is about being a part of the working poor vs. being financially secure.

Now the Democrats have a better plan to make more poor people financially secure, they just have not figured out how to convey that message. The Republicans have fear and they know how get that message out very easily, often with the help of Democrats



Is there any doubt? Turn on your television.
You 'challenge' me? I didn't say that *you* used the term 'white working class'. Um...I "challenge" you to find a comment in this thread where I said you mentioned 'white working class'. My comment wasn't directed at you, but I appreciate that you dislike it as much as I do.

BLM, by the way, IS about color and race. There's reasons for that. You know...like THIS

https://www.vox.com/identities/2017/...-balch-springs

but that would be for a different thread.
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Old 05-02-2017, 07:56 PM   #68 (permalink)
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Right, but the question was whether or not they can be reasoned with and won over, what kind of hurdle that poses. Not whether there is any doubt they exist.
If reason fails, there's always just trickery and dangling something shiny in front of them perhaps?
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Old 05-02-2017, 07:59 PM   #69 (permalink)
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This article seemed fitting to this thread, and especially this (rather long) excerpt:



Donald Trump thought being president “would be easier” — and so did his deeply ignorant voters - Salon.com
Quote:
an untested, inexperienced celebrity like Trump,
Where the hell was this guy (Tom Nichols) when Reagan got elected to the California governorship which led to his being elected POTUS?

Yeah, yeah, I know. Arnold. Except Arnold was long after Reagan and can't legally run for POTUS.
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Old 05-02-2017, 08:04 PM   #70 (permalink)
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Killing off anyone is extreme, who gives 2 shits about parties. You should always vote for the person who you think can better do the job. The second time Obama ran I ended up voting for Johnson I think, because I didn't fully agree with Obama enough to vote for him, and magic morman underwear was a big nope.


.
I'm not defending Neb so don't try to get me down that road. I'm just pointing out that he said he voted for Johnson, not Trump. I seem to recall him saying the same thing months ago. Or perhaps I am confusing him with Tex or Twisted.

I don't think Neb deserves to have his shit jumped in for voting for Trump when he voted for Johnson is all.
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Old 05-02-2017, 08:30 PM   #71 (permalink)
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I'm not defending Neb so don't try to get me down that road. I'm just pointing out that he said he voted for Johnson, not Trump. I seem to recall him saying the same thing months ago. Or perhaps I am confusing him with Tex or Twisted.

I don't think Neb deserves to have his shit jumped in for voting for Trump when he voted for Johnson is all.
I think what Nebula said was that he voted for Johnson when Obama was running for his second term, in 2012. It's not very clear, but he did indicate he voted for Trump last November.
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Old 05-02-2017, 08:45 PM   #72 (permalink)
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I think what Nebula said was that he voted for Johnson when Obama was running for his second term, in 2012. It's not very clear, but he did indicate he voted for Trump last November.
Ok. Sorry. I'm a bit addled after having to spend several hours on the phone today dealing with mother's estate (closed over 10 years ago) and I'm fighting a headache so I'm not surprised I misread what he said.

People, please, please make sure you dot all the i's and cross all the t's when it comes to leaving your affairs in order for when it's your time to go. Don't put your loved ones through the crap I'm having to go through, having to fight to get what is rightfully and legally mine because the companies* involved want to keep my money.

And if you buy a life insurance policy for your spouse (you are policy owner but policy covers spouse, not you) please make damn sure your beneficiaries know that, so it can be addressed before a decade passes. It does make a difference in how it is handled when a beneficiary files a death disbursement claim. Also make damn sure any capital stock is included in the estate. Believe me, you do not want your loved ones to have to deal with reopening an estate and getting the actual successors named legally through the court.



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Old 05-02-2017, 10:06 PM   #73 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Soda Sullivan View Post
I challenge either of you to find comment in this thread where I mentioned “white working class”. I hate the phrase just much as you do. (I also hate the phrase “Black Lives Matter” which I am sure someone will give me shit about but I don't care.) It is not about color and it has not been for a while. It is about being a part of the working poor vs. being financially secure.

Now the Democrats have a better plan to make more poor people financially secure, they just have not figured out how to convey that message. The Republicans have fear and they know how get that message out very easily, often with the help of Democrats

Is there any doubt? Turn on your television.
I wasn't responding or directing my comments to you at all.

I will say that you are dead wrong when you believe it's not about color.
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Old 05-03-2017, 07:27 PM   #74 (permalink)
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Most of the time I don't respond because it gets jumped on and derails people's conversation. I'm not trying to troll and I don't even care about hate being flung at me. You get used to that I'm life as it is. No I responded to this thread simply because I have a difference of opinion. Apprently that makes me dim, racist, and uneducated. Look people, I'm not gonna be rude, I'm not gonna yell, I will just choose to disagree. If hillary had won I'd have been chill with it. But I'm Goin back to silently lurking and reading most of the political discussions here. Also let it be known I don't always agree with Trump. I didn't vote for Obama, but I was pleased with some of the things he did. I'm sure you can all agree to be angry next year when I agree with x or y political view.
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Old 05-03-2017, 07:39 PM   #75 (permalink)
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No one's flinging hate. Unlike the guy you voted for.
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