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Old 04-21-2017, 02:42 AM   #1 (permalink)
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US wants Assange

Anyone still think Julian Assange would be safe if he left the embassy ? https://www.theguardian.com/media/20...-jeff-sessions.
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The arrest of WikiLeaks founder Julian Assange is now a “priority” for the US, attorney general Jeff Sessions has said.
I suspect Saint Theresa would hand him over like a shot if she could - after all not doing so might jeopardise any trade deal, and we already know she has no scruples when it comes to trade deals.
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Old 04-21-2017, 03:31 AM   #2 (permalink)
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Anyone still think Julian Assange would be safe if he left the embassy ? https://www.theguardian.com/media/20...-jeff-sessions. I suspect Saint Theresa would hand him over like a shot if she could - after all not doing so might jeopardise any trade deal, and we already know she has no scruples when it comes to trade deals.
Not at all surprised. Whether he is, that is another question.
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Old 04-21-2017, 05:33 AM   #3 (permalink)
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You know who also has no scruples? Someone who´s been trying to flee facing a court for rape charges for years now.

I have very little simpathy or respect for Assange or Wikileaks and they look even more stupid if they ever tought a GOP Prisidency woul care for them at all.
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Old 04-21-2017, 05:35 AM   #4 (permalink)
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Of all the things going on Sessions chooses to focus on Asange?

Then again, not really surprised. Yesterday was 4/20 and more than half the country wants m to be legal. He wants to also focus on stepping up criminalization of users.
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Old 04-21-2017, 05:42 AM   #5 (permalink)
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It's not really a dumb move, they can point as this when if comes time to defend against the Russia charges. Given that Assange clearly isn't going to leave that embassy seen anyway, not sure the announcement makes an actual difference in anything.
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Old 04-21-2017, 05:45 AM   #6 (permalink)
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Assange: "Whee! I'm important again!"
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Old 04-21-2017, 09:07 AM   #7 (permalink)
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Places bet:
They want assange not because he's directly responsible for wikileaks, but because they can coerce access... which can help them plug potentially damaging leaks, or manipulate some of their own. he's a political fotball.
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Old 04-21-2017, 10:16 AM   #8 (permalink)
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From the Guardian report:
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Citing unnamed officials, CNN reported that prosecutors have struggled with whether the Australian is protected from prosecution by the first amendment, but now believe they have found a path forward. A spokesman for the justice department declined to comment.

Barry Pollack, Assange’s lawyer, denied any knowledge of imminent prosecution. “We’ve had no communication with the Department of Justice and they have not indicated to me that they have brought any charges against Mr Assange,” he told CNN. “They’ve been unwilling to have any discussion at all, despite our repeated requests, that they let us know what Mr Assange’s status is in any pending investigations. There’s no reason why WikiLeaks should be treated differently from any other publisher.”
Jeff Sessions says he'd like to prosecute Assange, but let's see if they can actually draw up an indictment against Assange or Wikileaks that would stand up in an American court. If they can, the matter would then have to be argued in the British courts and, probably, the Swedish ones too. The European Court of Human Rights would almost certainly get involved at some point, as well.

To my mind, the rape and sexual assault charges are a completely separate issue. Assange and his colleagues at Wikileaks must at the time have considered the possibility that the US government might be a tad irritated by their activities and considered the possible danger of criminal prosecution. As I understand it, the US's only realistic chance of a successful prosecution depends on proving (making a jury sure, that is) that Assange (or whoever the defendant is) colluded with Chelsea Manning in committing particular criminal offences, which is probably quite a long shot.

Be that as it may, my point is that Assange must at the time have considered the possibility that, as a result of the Wikileaks business, the US might want to prosecute him, just as the editors of The New York Times, of The Guardian, and of all the other papers that were involved, must have considered their positions. Since, unlike Edward Snowden, he didn't immediately take refuge in a country that doesn't have extradition arrangements with the USA he must have taken the view, not unreasonably, that in the event the US do decide to prosecute, he's probably safe from extradition anyway under the normal dual criminality rules (basically, the activities alleged in the extradition request would amount to a criminal offence in the country from which the extradition is sought). But let's see what happens and if anything comes of Mr Sessions' words.
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Old 04-21-2017, 02:31 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Old 04-21-2017, 03:11 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Of all the things going on Sessions chooses to focus on Asange?
He also dissed the State of Hawaii, saying a judge from an "island in the Pacific" shouldn't be able to block the president's travel ban. This federal judge was confirmed by 100% of the Senate, including Sessions. Apparently our Attorney General needs a lesson in separation of powers.
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Old 04-21-2017, 04:27 PM   #11 (permalink)
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I suspect Saint Theresa would hand him over like a shot if she could - after all not doing so might jeopardise any trade deal, and we already know she has no scruples when it comes to trade deals.
It wouldn't necessarily be up to her, though. She's the one who gets to approve (or not) extraditions, but only if the application has previously been approved by the courts. Before it got to her desk, the extradition request would first have to have been agreed by the British courts, possibly the Swedish courts, too, and quite probably the ECHR if Assange were to argue that his rights under Article 10 (freedom of expression) and Article 6 (fair trial) were in danger.
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Old 04-21-2017, 08:36 PM   #12 (permalink)
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I thought non-US citizens weren't afforded the protections of the Constitution. Wasn't there a big deal made about that during the Muslim ban uproar?
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Old 04-21-2017, 08:43 PM   #13 (permalink)
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I thought non-US citizens weren't afforded the protections of the Constitution. Wasn't there a big deal made about that during the Muslim ban uproar?
This was mostly cleaned up by the 14th amendment, durned furriners are mostly protected by the 14th. There are a few bits here and there that refer specifically to citizens or aliens.

This little article covers it pretty well.
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Old 04-21-2017, 08:52 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Yup the rule of thumb basically is, citizenship notwithstanding, in any situation where you are subject to the laws of the United States, you enjoy the protections of the Constitution as well.
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Old 04-21-2017, 09:14 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Yup the rule of thumb basically is, citizenship notwithstanding, in any situation where you are subject to the laws of the United States, you enjoy the protections of the Constitution as well.
That, as I understand it, is the whole point of using "black" offshore prisons and interrogation facilities -- a practice, I might add, that is unlawful in the UK and has been since well before the USA came into being:
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One of the charges made against Edward Hyde, the First Earl of Clarendon, in his impeachment in 1667 was that he had attempted to preclude habeas corpus by sending persons to "remote islands, garrisons, and other places, thereby to prevent them from the benefit of the law", that is by sending persons to places where the writ of habeas corpus would not be available. In 1679 this loophole was blocked by section 11 of the Habeas Corpus Amendment Act 1679. For more than three centuries such stratagems to evade habeas corpus have been unlawful in England.
http://www.statewatch.org/news/2003/nov/guantanamo.pdf

I really cannot see an American court reacting well to the proposition that Julian Assange can be prosecuted for something that was perfectly legal when the editor of the New York Times did it, and I doubt a British court would be terribly impressed either.
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Old 04-22-2017, 05:04 AM   #16 (permalink)
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It wouldn't necessarily be up to her, though. She's the one who gets to approve (or not) extraditions, but only if the application has previously been approved by the courts. Before it got to her desk, the extradition request would first have to have been agreed by the British courts, possibly the Swedish courts, too, and quite probably the ECHR if Assange were to argue that his rights under Article 10 (freedom of expression) and Article 6 (fair trial) were in danger.
I daresay you're right. I just don't trust May, and believe pressure would be brought to bear (by the PM and the Home Office at least) on those who have to make such decisions.
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Old 04-22-2017, 05:07 AM   #17 (permalink)
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That, as I understand it, is the whole point of using "black" offshore prisons and interrogation facilities -- a practice, I might add, that is unlawful in the UK and has been since well before the USA came into being.
Unlawful or not, it didn't stop the UK (allegedly) assisting the US with illegal rendition and 'robust' interrogation.
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Old 04-22-2017, 05:10 AM   #18 (permalink)
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It wouldn't necessarily be up to her, though. She's the one who gets to approve (or not) extraditions, but only if the application has previously been approved by the courts. Before it got to her desk, the extradition request would first have to have been agreed by the British courts, possibly the Swedish courts, too, and quite probably the ECHR if Assange were to argue that his rights under Article 10 (freedom of expression) and Article 6 (fair trial) were in danger.
Technically its Amber Rudd as Home Secretary who has the right of approval rather than Theresa May
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Old 04-22-2017, 11:56 AM   #19 (permalink)
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I daresay you're right. I just don't trust May, and believe pressure would be brought to bear (by the PM and the Home Office at least) on those who have to make such decisions.
You may well believe it, but the question is whether you actually have any grounds for your belief. You are, after all, accusing both the government and the judiciary of pretty serious misconduct here.

I can point you to literally dozens of examples in which both this government and previous ones have suffered major defeats in the courts in cases they badly wanted to win.

Can you point me to any cases the government won in which you think the most likely explanation for the outcome was that the government had nobbled the judges?
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Old 04-22-2017, 01:17 PM   #20 (permalink)
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Can you point me to any cases the government won in which you think the most likely explanation for the outcome was that the government had nobbled the judges?
Of course not, I'd be disappointed if they couldn't hide it better than that.

P.S. Innula is most likely quite right, but she's fun to tease...
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Old 04-24-2017, 12:51 PM   #21 (permalink)
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They have to be so sick of that self aggrandizing little peon perv at the embassy. I am sure it will not take much a shove to get him out. I really don't see a trial in his future....accidents happen.
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Old 04-24-2017, 01:05 PM   #22 (permalink)
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The actual embassy staff have been begging the Ecuadorian government to suspend Assange's asylum for over a year already; he has reportedly abused staff, destroyed his room furnishings, and attempted multiple times to access official computers. But the home government remains largely indifferent.
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Old 04-24-2017, 03:39 PM   #23 (permalink)
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Old 04-24-2017, 11:47 PM   #24 (permalink)
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This was not too far down in the comments/tweets. For those who (like me) did not recognize the name "Center for Medical Progress", that's the outfit that put together those faked-up videos purporting to show PP selling fetal tissue at big profits. They are currently under several Fraud indictments in California.

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ETA: Note how Ryan there ID's himself. Religion, marital status, political party as one, two, three. WTF?
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Old 04-25-2017, 08:58 AM   #25 (permalink)
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So, gaslighting Clinton didn't work out for him after all. Bless his little heart.

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From the Guardian report:
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Citing unnamed officials, CNN reported that prosecutors have struggled with whether the Australian is protected from prosecution by the first amendment, but now believe they have found a path forward.
He is not a US citizen and is not in US territory or on US controlled property, so the Constitution does not apply.

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Yup the rule of thumb basically is, citizenship notwithstanding, in any situation where you are subject to the laws of the United States, you enjoy the protections of the Constitution as well.
*cough* Drone strikes. *cough* Shooting across the border. *cough* ...
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