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Old 04-11-2017, 11:48 AM   #51 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Argent Stonecutter View Post
They had staff that needed to fly to crew a plane at another airport, so they dumped paying passengers for deadheads.


This wasn't overbooking. This was a strong-arm ejection of passengers because the airline needed the seats for employees, not for other paying customers who got there first.

This morning on MSNBC, the designated "airlines expert" commentator maintained that these increasingly horrible airline conditions are the inevitable result of a race toward the bottom of pricing. It's a race driven by customers who refused to pay more for amenities and will always take the cheaper ticket. Airlines that offered more services at higher prices ended up going out of business. So in order to stay in business, the remaining airlines continue to slash prices and lower services.

I have no idea how valid this analysis is, since I haven't flown an airline since about 2002. I'd rather drive for two days than fly, given current conditions imposed by TSA security and the standard airline business plans. The risks are just too high: groping, flight denials, interminable lines, lost luggage, tarmac hostage delays and now getting physically beaten by cops.
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Old 04-11-2017, 11:57 AM   #52 (permalink)
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The whole thing is fucking disgusting really.

Here is an actual lawyer talking about it if you want to hear, though he a copyright attorney mainly.

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Old 04-11-2017, 11:58 AM   #53 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Beebo Brink View Post
I have no idea how valid this analysis is, since I haven't flown an airline since about 2002. I'd rather drive for two days than fly, given current conditions imposed by TSA security and the standard airline business plans. The risks are just too high: groping, flight denials, interminable lines, lost luggage, tarmac hostage delays and now getting physically beaten by cops.
Amtrak. It's worth it. I'm serious.
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Old 04-11-2017, 12:04 PM   #54 (permalink)
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My last flight for work was across the entire continent so not many options other than flying. If they sent me to a city it was reasonably to do so though I would take a train (in fact, I will be doing that daily in a couple of weeks because they are sending me to baltimore with no budget for a hotel). Take the extra time out of my PTO balance and I will pay the difference between a train ride and what they would have spent on the flight .... it will be worth it not to deal with what has become of air travel.

If I am the one making reservations there is no question that I will be getting train tickets. My spouse's family does a get-together every summer but fortunately they do not do the 'cheapest at any cost' thing and I have told them I will pay for the difference for us to get economy+ if it means I get more legroom. Once you go over 6' flying is much more of a torture than it is to everyone else.
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Old 04-11-2017, 12:19 PM   #55 (permalink)
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Amtrak. It's worth it. I'm serious.
Definitely! I use it to go DC<->Boston and DC<->Vermont all the time. The downside that people always bring up is that it is slower than a plane but when you look at the total travel time (lines, etc) the plane only wins if it is a huge distance. If you are going between 2 east coast cities for example do not even bother debating it.

Ticket price is pretty comparable. Going from economy to business on a train is often $50 or $60 so usually worth it.

Space is .... wow! I typically have a full sized suitcase or two in FRONT of me when I am on one and am about 6'3". Even with those two facts I still have plenty of room.

The dining car food is nothing to write home about but just the fact you can get up and walk to another part of your transportation mode to order is wow. Then you take your order to your seat or a table. Do THAT on a plane where space is a premium.

I have yet to be in a sleeper car but I kicked myself because I did not think of it the one time it would have fit with my travel plans perfectly and solved a few issues. I was going from a small town in Colorado with a train stop (and hours from an airport) to back east while under doctor's orders to take it easy.
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Old 04-11-2017, 12:35 PM   #56 (permalink)
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United Airlines Lost a Billion Dollars This Morning | Mother Jones
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Old 04-11-2017, 12:48 PM   #57 (permalink)
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Definitely! I use it to go DC<->Boston and DC<->Vermont all the time. The downside that people always bring up is that it is slower than a plane but when you look at the total travel time (lines, etc) the plane only wins if it is a huge distance. If you are going between 2 east coast cities for example do not even bother debating it.

Ticket price is pretty comparable. Going from economy to business on a train is often $50 or $60 so usually worth it.

Space is .... wow! I typically have a full sized suitcase or two in FRONT of me when I am on one and am about 6'3". Even with those two facts I still have plenty of room.

The dining car food is nothing to write home about but just the fact you can get up and walk to another part of your transportation mode to order is wow. Then you take your order to your seat or a table. Do THAT on a plane where space is a premium.

I have yet to be in a sleeper car but I kicked myself because I did not think of it the one time it would have fit with my travel plans perfectly and solved a few issues. I was going from a small town in Colorado with a train stop (and hours from an airport) to back east while under doctor's orders to take it easy.
I bought a roomette a couple years back when going cross-country from NOLA to Cleveland. It's amazing - turn down service in the morning and evening, and all meals are included. And, there's always coffee and juice at the little station in the hallway. It's unbeatable! It costs a fair amount above a coach seat though. But even coach is so roomy and comfortable. People who don't consider the train really don't know what they're missing.

Also, two free checked bags, people. Think about it.
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Old 04-11-2017, 12:50 PM   #58 (permalink)
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United CEO Blames 'Belligerent' Customer For Overbooked Flight Melee | The Huffington Post
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Old 04-11-2017, 01:35 PM   #59 (permalink)
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Oh, ffs.

I was waiting for a flight and a young guy in line was on standby and wanted to get back home for his (dying) mother. He was nervous and shouty, and the person at the checkin was all 'you'll have to wait unless we have a cancellation or change of schedule'.

I would have given up my seat but, unfortunately, I also *had* to fly or I'd have been in serious trouble with work.

I was so, so, SO happy to see him on the flight. I went to the bathroom and saw him sitting there and told him so. He said somebody had volunteered to re-book for the following day and the airline (I think it was Lufthansa but I forget) had, in the end, been really helpful and done everything they could to help him. He was in possession of printed-out mails from the hospital... I think it was Chile as the guy was definitely South American... I can remember his face clearly... but hey, I'm old and forgetful.

One small gesture can go so far.

Either way. United deserve all the crap publicity they get.

This was about ten years ago, so before things were made quite as public on the social media, but the guy was just so grateful to be going home to say goodbye to his mum.
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Old 04-11-2017, 01:35 PM   #60 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dakota Tebaldi View Post
Amtrak. It's worth it. I'm serious.
Not always. When Troy left OR to join me in La. (via MS*) in 2000, he rode Amtrak. Three days and no sleep because sleepers were just too expensive. No food because that was expensive also. Conditions of the track in some places was horrendous. He looked like hell when he got off the train at McComb, MS. It took him three days to recover and he was only 40 at the time.


* I moved from MS back to LA the day Troy got off the train.
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Old 04-11-2017, 01:45 PM   #61 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Dakota Tebaldi View Post
I bought a roomette a couple years back when going cross-country from NOLA to Cleveland. It's amazing - turn down service in the morning and evening, and all meals are included. And, there's always coffee and juice at the little station in the hallway. It's unbeatable! It costs a fair amount above a coach seat though. But even coach is so roomy and comfortable. People who don't consider the train really don't know what they're missing.

Also, two free checked bags, people. Think about it.
This is why, for trips to the UK, I prefer the train. When you factor in the airport waiting time, no competition. I can get either a direct train to London, or one with one changeover in Lille, and then I can just relax for six hours.

The French high-speed trains are seriously fast, as is the Eurostar. I don't like the tunnel bit that much (done it twice) but it's relaxing.

The weird thing in Europe is that with low-cost airlines, the train is MORE expensive. But once again, no airport parking, no hassle. Book a ticket early and given the cost of London airports to cental London by train or taxi, very little difference.

Except there are strikes, this being Europe, but those affect air travel too.

While I'm being nostalgic, there was a direct train from where I lived in Switzerland to Venice, overnight. Pretty cheap too, and arriving in Venice as the sun rose was absolutely damned unforgettable. Did it twice. Amazing.

Watch out for reports on the London - "Ari's place by train" experience from a lovely SLU person this summer. Can't wait!
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Old 04-11-2017, 02:14 PM   #62 (permalink)
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Teacher on United flight took students off plane after incident

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Powell said he and other passengers were in shock, but the worst part, for him, came when the man returned to the plane and was cornered near the bathroom in the back — closer to Powell's students.

"I'm thinking to myself, 'Nothing good is coming of this,'" Powell said. "... I removed my kids from the plane, saying we don't need to see this stuff. We got up and left."

The group was quickly followed by a father and his 8-year-old daughter, who was crying along with one of Powell's students, he said.

Powell said he hasn't spoken with that group of students — ranging from 16 to 18 years old — since returning to school, but he has discussed the incident in class after other students spotted him in the video.

Powell added that he hasn't followed the national reaction on social media. But he's still upset by the bizarre events.

"This did not need to happen," Powell said. "This is not what adults do, it's not what we're trying to teach our kids to do. Use your words, is what your elementary school teacher would tell you.

"This is not how our country is supposed to be operating. People in authority positions do not need to be operating like this."
FYI, the Doctor was apparently trying to get home to his wife's practice in Elisabethtown, or "E-town" as we call it. E-town is just south west of Louisville, but serves a huge number of rural counties southward and you usually have to schedule weeks in advance to get appointments. I have no doubt that their was a long line of patients waiting for his services.

...and why can't we build a damn train in this country?
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Old 04-11-2017, 02:19 PM   #63 (permalink)
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The weird thing in Europe is that with low-cost airlines, the train is MORE expensive. But once again, no airport parking, no hassle. Book a ticket early and given the cost of London airports to cental London by train or taxi, very little difference.
For longer distances planes are cheaper here too. Arbitrarily picking 4/25, cheapest tickets for two weeks from now:

DC - Boston train $109 (about 400+ miles)
Plane $44 (Spirit Airlines)

Philadelphia - Portland OR (my two cities) train $232 (and 3 days)
Plane $190 (Delta)

If I were taking a trip of an 8 hour train ride or less I would take the train, across the country, the plane, in between, I might have to think about it.
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Old 04-11-2017, 02:23 PM   #64 (permalink)
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Amtrak. It's worth it. I'm serious.
Trump just slashed Amtrak, if I'm remembering a news byte that went past a day or so ago correctly.
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Old 04-11-2017, 02:27 PM   #65 (permalink)
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Trump just slashed Amtrak, if I'm remembering a news byte that went past a day or so ago correctly.
Ugh. You are correct.

Cutting Off 'Fly-Over' States, Trump to Axe Amtrak for 220 Cities

Edited to Add: List of cities and routes to be cut http://www.masstransitmag.com/press_...network-trains

Last edited by Wanda Belinda; 04-11-2017 at 02:38 PM.
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Old 04-11-2017, 03:07 PM   #66 (permalink)
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This is the same logic that gets you arrested for resisting arrest.
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Old 04-11-2017, 04:23 PM   #67 (permalink)
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Old 04-11-2017, 04:37 PM   #68 (permalink)
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Adding more fuel to how badly the airlines are treating passengers, here is why it's happening in the US:

https://www.buzzfeed.com/tomgara/air...QRl#.ys1kedBe6

So with no regulation and no competition, they can do exactly what they want, and they are.

Corporations need to start pushing back on how passengers are treated in economy class. Is this how you really want your employees to be treated?

I understand not springing for $1500 or $2500 more per flight for business class but I don't understand why companies as a whole don't complain. They could be very effective in changing policy and making life a lot easier for their employees who have to travel.

Airlines have not invested in their infrastructure in YEARS. Some planes I get in are so nasty they smell, with nasty old cloth seats and torn dirty plastic on the windows. Horrible. If the maintenance is that bad on the outside, how do I know it's not that bad on the inside too?

The computer booking systems are for shit and lately are down a lot. Delta just suffered a huge melt down after some storms in Atlanta that 20 years ago would not have phased them but now they have cut so many flights and were so overbooked that it became catastrophic. https://www.buzzfeed.com/venessawong...WL0#.ovOXoNno3

https://www.cnet.com/news/united-air...flight-delays/

Southwest Airlines suffers nationwide computer failure - westsidetoday.com

Here's what happens when an airline suffers a catastrophic shutdown - Business Insider Nordic

It's ridiculous that they haven't properly anticipated passenger travel growth and that they have not updated their antiquated computer systems and software.

What kind of people are running these companies? Seems like as long as they get their executive pay check they pretty much don't give a shit.

The scary part is that the airlines play an integral role in the US economy as a reliable form of fast transport. What happens when they break down entirely? Honestly, as badly as they are being run, I think it's a possibility that we could have a complete air travel failure and it will take a huge dump on our economy.
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Old 04-11-2017, 04:52 PM   #69 (permalink)
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I bet if they offered their employees an $800+ bonus to work when they have a shortage, someone would jump at the chance.
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Old 04-11-2017, 05:17 PM   #70 (permalink)
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On Kimmel, they made up an ad for United which starts at 4:12 (the rest is more a recap of what happened).


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Old 04-11-2017, 05:23 PM   #71 (permalink)
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Old 04-11-2017, 05:38 PM   #72 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DanielRavenNest View Post
The situation with this passenger sounds like a mistake on United's part. If they knew the flight was overbooked, they should not have checked everyone in. Check in the priority passengers (first class, mileage members, full fare economy, etc.) until you reach the last group for which you don't have seats. Then selectively check in the last group in whatever order your policy says (earliest booking or whatever) until you reach full. The leftovers don't get checked in at all, and should not be boarded.


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Old 04-11-2017, 06:03 PM   #73 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dakota Tebaldi View Post
I bought a roomette a couple years back when going cross-country from NOLA to Cleveland. It's amazing - turn down service in the morning and evening, and all meals are included. And, there's always coffee and juice at the little station in the hallway. It's unbeatable! It costs a fair amount above a coach seat though. But even coach is so roomy and comfortable. People who don't consider the train really don't know what they're missing.

Also, two free checked bags, people. Think about it.
Well, it makes the reservations a lot easier to get.

Bags is certainly better with a train. I usually take a couple of full size bags to my seat. Great for things like special diets and bringing things you do not want broken.
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Old 04-11-2017, 06:09 PM   #74 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by WolfEyes View Post
Not always. When Troy left OR to join me in La. (via MS*) in 2000, he rode Amtrak. Three days and no sleep because sleepers were just too expensive. No food because that was expensive also. Conditions of the track in some places was horrendous. He looked like hell when he got off the train at McComb, MS. It took him three days to recover and he was only 40 at the time.


* I moved from MS back to LA the day Troy got off the train.
For long hauls I would not want to sit in coach. It is better than a plane for shorter trips though. Actually, that is another reason I prefer trains. With a plane I have basically wasted a day with the airport and recovering. With a train I am starting my vacation the second I deboard (even longer since I enjoy the trip).
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Old 04-11-2017, 06:11 PM   #75 (permalink)
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United passenger who was dragged from plane says he's still in the hospital
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