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Old 03-18-2017, 03:25 AM   #101 (permalink)
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Old 03-18-2017, 04:48 AM   #102 (permalink)
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Simply put there's not going to be meaningful gun regulation in the US in the next 50 years.
Simply put, it isn't really possible for a single gun regulation to have a statistically verifiable outcome on gun crimes without being combined with other gun regulations and being in effect for many years. We aren't going to suddenly go the route Australia took with an outright ban, (which they actually have statistics for), but that doesn't justify doing nothing at all. The USA has a gun problem with which no other modern democracy can compare.

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I like the assault weapons ban as my personal favorite "Pointless bit of gun legislation in the last 30 years" because more people have been killed by rash masturbation accidents in the US than have been killed by assault rifles.
Pointless mostly because of the grandfathering when enacted and given only a decade-long life-span, and had no other controls following to build on it. We still had and have people easily predicted as violent risks able to get guns without any problems.
But yeah, people still die in car crashes, so gun violence, and deaths/massacres from rapid firing weapons in particular, isn't a problem.
GTFO with that shit.

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about global warming/climate change etc. [...]
This leads educated people like me to scientific journals, but joe dirtfarmer probably don't have good internet ya'll.
I think you should take a step back and look at the picture you just painted contrasting yourself from 'them' before you lead into how to deal with rural Americans.
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So maybe treating him like a retard when he expresses doubt isn't the way to go. You get to call them retards when you refute them in person after providing the evidence and they choose to ignore it anyways, not when there's refuting evidence out there somewhere buried in a scientific American journal that they've never read.
1 - This specific issue isn't a case of urban vs rural;
2 - The contrasting stereotypes of the stuck-ups and dumbasses was around long before this issue, and won't go away with it either. It is something you tackle with and throw at the people, not the political party you aimed this toward. I haven't seen a single Democratic politician calling rural Americans retards. Maybe throw that criticism at other citizens and comedians if you think it is deserved.

And I don't think you have to hunt for evidence buried in secret scientific journals anymore.

Have you been paying attention for the last few years? I see and hear evidence being presented about multiple issues that our political systems are addressing and it really doesn't matter where it comes from - it is soundly rejected, along with the whole idea that science itself is anything but a belief system.

I will agree that Democrats have to campaign heavily in rural areas in person in degrees they have not in recent decades, but there is no excuse for the denials of evidence presented that has already happened.

Nobody proved anything to them yet? Bullshit. It has been constantly presented and is constantly ridiculed. But yeah, personal tutoring has to be attempted. Those mocking other people for wanting safe space from hard truths have to be spared from some reality hurting their feelings.

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They probably should have paid attention to the states they assumed were in the bag and maybe ignored the traditional swing states.
It's still a huge country and the mileage is huge. It is always a gamble as for where to spend time campaigning. Yes, the traditional states believed in the bag would have made the difference themselves. So would Pennsylvania and Florida by themselves.
All of these I told you sos make for a good lesson and would be kind of like rubbing their faces in it . . . if someone had told them so.
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Old 03-18-2017, 07:26 PM   #103 (permalink)
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more people have been killed by rash masturbation accidents

I wish to hear more on this topic.
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Old 03-23-2017, 07:46 PM   #104 (permalink)
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Nobody proved anything to them yet? Bullshit. It has been constantly presented and is constantly ridiculed. But yeah, personal tutoring has to be attempted. Those mocking other people for wanting safe space from hard truths have to be spared from some reality hurting their feelings.
I feel there's a massive disconnect on what "Rural" is and isn't. I grew up on the edge of Rural and I had a terrible public education full of opportunities to join the Future Farmers of America, and the earth sciences mainly consisted of saying things like "Don't litter" but fortunately due to being on the edge I had access to things like the internet, and I'm not going to lie. Easy access to information rapidly changed my world view.

However thanks to living in a semi rural area of the dirty south I can state with authority that there are people I work with who live out in the sticks, in these rural areas, that can't even get internet if they wanted it. Dial up is shuttered, and time warner just doesn't deliver. Their main internet? Only when they come into the office. And rabbit ears on the TV is still the prime way to get media. Their political opinions mainly march in lockstep with their parents.

Now you can put on your big meanie head face and say things like "These people deserve to be mocked" while completely ignoring that empathy word that our side is theoretically supposed to have more of, and then have a monacle popping moment when the unwashed masses strangely don't vote in lockstep with the folks who call them names.
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Old 03-23-2017, 07:49 PM   #105 (permalink)
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I mean yeah it would be great if our voting populous was made up entirely of highly educated rational actors. But you go to the polls with the dummies you got.
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Old 03-24-2017, 02:53 PM   #106 (permalink)
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I feel there's a massive disconnect on what "Rural" is and isn't.
I don't believe there is a disconnect here. Personally, I would describe myself as having been raised on that edge you described; not in lifestyle/location, but direct family. My mother moved to Florida (sometime before 1960) from what was basically isolated areas in Tennessee mountains. I am aware of mindsets and mannerisms more than I'll get into here.
It's also fair to say that there is no political distinction based solely on rural vs. urban people; only which would be predominant. There are Democrats in the hills and sticks, and Republicans in major cities.

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Easy access to information rapidly changed my world view.[...]

Their main internet? Only when they come into the office.
I am only going to agree that high-speed internet is a rich topic that liberals have to offer rural communities while conservatives in power try to justify denying it.
Their main internet? Their cell phones, predominantly YouTube and Facebook. Access to information is not the problem. The widespread 'alternate' information is. I would guess we can thank conservatives in the cities for the most help with that.

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Now you can put on your big meanie head face and say things like "These people deserve to be mocked" [...]
Nobody is saying these people deserve to be mocked.
Hateful ideology deserves to be mocked to be laid bare for what it is. I agree that rural communities need to be given far more attention by liberals than in the past, but not with a spineless censoring of values.
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Old 03-28-2017, 04:46 PM   #107 (permalink)
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Maybe not the best place to post this, but I'm too lazy to start a thread^^.

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Old 03-28-2017, 05:16 PM   #108 (permalink)
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I know I've posted this before so I'll be brief and apologize for repeating myself to some degree.

Rural people aren't suffering from lack of information, although it would be far better if there was more rural broadband and if libraries weren't getting cutbacks in some places. What many places, rural and urban, are suffering from is a decent quality public education.

I'm going to make an example out of Vermont. Northern Vermont is certainly very rural. But the quality of public education is good, so the voters don't generally go to the hard Right, not even the Republican ones. As time goes by, northern New England has gone from red to more purple.

It does no one any good to be awash in information if Fox and other kinds of disinformation can't be distinguished from real facts. What a good education does, is allow people and communities to grow a bullshit detector. It also helps reduce barriers that would divide the working classes from educated professionals to an extreme degree, and it reduces barriers to participation in local politics.

Education is half of why northern Vermont and the hard Right sections of the Bible Belt are *different* even though both are poor and both are isolated and have bad internet. The other half of that, let's be frank, is that Vermont doesn't have racist Southern religion, but is a mix of UCC, other moderate Protestants, and Catholic, for the most part.

These are not differences the Dems can paper over by being nicer.

I've also been predicting that in 20 years urban areas in the West which are now predominantly LDS will also be shifted leftward, again because of better education. This could break the Repubs even if the scandals of this election cycle fail to do so. There's only so much hard South these folks are going to be able to take, and it won't matter what the Church leaders are saying if the tendency to stop going to church continues to grow.

I don't think the Republicans are going to go quietly away into demographic demise, and we're seeing their panic, which the Dems can't stop with niceness. It needs sterner stuff.
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Old 03-29-2017, 01:18 AM   #109 (permalink)
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Maybe not the best place to post this, but I'm too lazy to start a thread^^.

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Old 03-29-2017, 06:51 PM   #110 (permalink)
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Really? You're still trying to troll us?
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Old 03-29-2017, 07:04 PM   #111 (permalink)
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Really? You're still trying to troll us?
He has successfully trolled us, but at what cost to his credibility? The vast majority here will never take him seriously as he humps his landlord's modem, begging for contact with other humans.
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Old 03-29-2017, 09:49 PM   #112 (permalink)
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Old 03-29-2017, 10:11 PM   #113 (permalink)
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I'm going to make an example out of Vermont. Northern Vermont is certainly very rural. But the quality of public education is good, so the voters don't generally go to the hard Right, not even the Republican ones. As time goes by, northern New England has gone from red to more purple.

That's interesting. Why do you qualify it to Northern Vermont? Is Southern Vermont different? I'm interested in the layout of different states' liberal or conservatism. For instance, as you probably know having spent time in Oregon, the Portland and Eugene areas and a bit of the coast are blue and most of the rest of the state is red. I know Burlington is very blue and very north. Are the rural north areas of Vermont more liberal than the south areas? I've also found it odd that Vermont as a whole seems so much more liberal than its next door neighbor NH. Sometimes I think of moving to Vermont if it wasn't so cold.
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Old 03-30-2017, 12:12 AM   #114 (permalink)
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That's interesting. Why do you qualify it to Northern Vermont? Is Southern Vermont different? I'm interested in the layout of different states' liberal or conservatism. For instance, as you probably know having spent time in Oregon, the Portland and Eugene areas and a bit of the coast are blue and most of the rest of the state is red. I know Burlington is very blue and very north. Are the rural north areas of Vermont more liberal than the south areas? I've also found it odd that Vermont as a whole seems so much more liberal than its next door neighbor NH. Sometimes I think of moving to Vermont if it wasn't so cold.

The north areas are the ones least likely to have internet outside of the towns, or even in some cases cell phone service.

Otherwise it's not enough different from north to south to really say much, but the connectivity in the North Country can be bad to nonexistent.

NH started out much like VT, but after years of being governed by a Republican political machine that favored the economic needs of the southern part of the state, the northern part of NH has been economically hollowed out. So NH north of the Notch isn't culturally any different than northern VT, but economically it's different. Internet connectivity is also quite bad there, too.

In fact, comparing these two states was my first real life example of what happens in rural areas governed by Republicans versus those governed by a mix. I pretty much had my choice of either working in VT, or driving all the way down to the Notch or beyond (a completely ridiculous commute in winter, but people do it) just to get a low paying job.

Overall, any part of New England is going to be socially more liberal than the Bible Belt. The remaining very religious people are Catholic. It can get Republican, but it's a mind your own business type of person for the most part.

The winters aren't what they used to be, but are still significant. It's a great place to live other than that, or maybe you ski but I wouldn't move back unless I had a job lined up in advance, or was retiring. The people have always been awesome. Do not buy a home with land in NH, the property tax will kill you.
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Old 03-30-2017, 12:18 AM   #115 (permalink)
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I should also add that it was VT that got the influx of hippies, because of the much lower property taxes. They are pretty much in the local mix by now, but they do run most of the liberal type small businesses. But the locals themselves are mostly either Catholic or UCC or mainline Protestant, moderate type people, for the most part. Each town can be quite different from its neighbors but I can't think of any place that would be bad to live in. You'd have to look at the distance from your chosen town to whatever social connection was most important to you and ask if the winter commute would be too long.
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Old 03-30-2017, 06:04 AM   #116 (permalink)
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That's interesting. Why do you qualify it to Northern Vermont? Is Southern Vermont different? I'm interested in the layout of different states' liberal or conservatism. For instance, as you probably know having spent time in Oregon, the Portland and Eugene areas and a bit of the coast are blue and most of the rest of the state is red. I know Burlington is very blue and very north. Are the rural north areas of Vermont more liberal than the south areas? I've also found it odd that Vermont as a whole seems so much more liberal than its next door neighbor NH. Sometimes I think of moving to Vermont if it wasn't so cold.
It depends what part of NH. The west side of it is pretty liberal. The north end, with towns of a couple dozen people, is probably more conservative than most of the state but there are not that many people there. Then things got even more mixed up when free-staters decided to invade and make it a con paradise (short story: they failed and the locals hate them). I often say NH has as many independent parties as it has voters.
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