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Old 02-07-2017, 09:31 AM   #51 (permalink)
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Yes, the electoral college is more an appendix than a functional organ ... especially now that it has been perverted so much. The ONLY reason we have it is because the founding fathers were overly concerned about the less populated states (why? less people should mean less representation) so messed up the other ones. This at a time when not everyone could vote that does today (and DC did not get a presidential vote until the 50s).

If I lived in the rural town where I grew up I would find it completely fair that our town had less of a say in the election than, oh, San Fransisco. So why it was decreed people in bigger places should have less of a say to fix that 'problem' is completely befuddling.
I think the problem is inherent in electing an executive president. If everyone's vote counts equally, then the president will almost always be chosen by the more populous areas.

Since there are several US cities with populations larger than many US states, I can see why residents in those states might fear the implications of that, since it would mean their concerns would probably carry little weight.

On a back-of-the envelope calculation, New York, Los Angeles and Chicago have combined population of about 15.2 million. That is, between them they have more people than the 14 least populous states (including D.C.) combined. So presumably there's a fear that, if everyone's vote counted equally, the interests of voters those smaller states might well be neglected, if not completely ignored, by presidents and would-be presidents.

I don't say that's a reason for keeping the present system, but I can see why residents of some areas would have concerns about changing it.

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Old 02-07-2017, 09:34 AM   #52 (permalink)
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We got rid of this problem in 1832:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rotten...ocket_boroughs

perhaps a similar reform would be in order over there?
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Old 02-07-2017, 09:54 AM   #53 (permalink)
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We got rid of this problem in 1832:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rotten...ocket_boroughs

perhaps a similar reform would be in order over there?
It's a mistake to say Britain has no written constitution -- we do, but it's written down in various Acts of Parliament and the subsequent case law rather than in a single document.

This fact, it's always seemed to me, has made it far easier for us to change constitutional arrangements to fit changing circumstances than it is in the USA. If we were stuck with a system of government based on rules written by the two Pitts, Addison, Steele, Edmund Burke, Horace Walpole, Dr Johnson and other C18th luminaries, I think the UK would be a very strange an even stranger place.

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Old 02-07-2017, 09:57 AM   #54 (permalink)
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I note Quebec City isn't on the list.
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Old 02-07-2017, 10:13 AM   #55 (permalink)
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To be precise, the UK has an independent commission that sets boundaries. Boundaries are supposed to follow political boundaries where possible, and when that's impractical there is supposed to be consultation with the local population.
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Old 02-07-2017, 11:41 AM   #56 (permalink)
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So much for the Future Generation of America

Betsy DeVos Confirmed as Education Secretary; Pence Breaks Tie
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Old 02-07-2017, 12:38 PM   #57 (permalink)
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I wonder if they've asked Meryl Streep, who did a pretty good job? Now that would really get Smallhand Donny upset.

Trump's stupidly-long tie has always bothered me more than it rightly should. I mean, the guy has to be getting his suits bespoke, right? And you're telling me that not a single tailor at any one of his measurings or fittings ever took him aside and said "Look, we need to talk about your tie"?
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Old 02-07-2017, 01:19 PM   #58 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Kara Spengler View Post
Yes, the electoral college is more an appendix than a functional organ ... especially now that it has been perverted so much. The ONLY reason we have it is because the founding fathers were overly concerned about the less populated states (why? less people should mean less representation) so messed up the other ones. This at a time when not everyone could vote that does today (and DC did not get a presidential vote until the 50s).

If I lived in the rural town where I grew up I would find it completely fair that our town had less of a say in the election than, oh, San Fransisco. So why it was decreed people in bigger places should have less of a say to fix that 'problem' is completely befuddling.
A bunch of guys voted for the Electoral College, so there were a bunch of reasons. I think Peter Beinart explains it pretty well:

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James Madison and some other framers favored some manner of popular vote for president. Others passionately opposed it. Some of the framers wanted Congress to choose the president. Many white southerners supported the Electoral College because it counted their non-voting slaves as three-fifths of a person, and thus gave the South more influence than it would have enjoyed in a national vote. The founders compromised by leaving it up to state legislatures. State legislatures could hand over the selection of electors to the people as a whole. In that case, the people would have a voice in choosing their president. But—and here’s the crucial point—the people’s voice would still not be absolute. No matter how they were selected, the electors would retain the independence to make their own choice.

It is “desirable,” Alexander Hamilton wrote in Federalist 68, “that the sense of the people should operate in the choice of” president. But is “equally desirable, that the immediate election should be made by men most capable of analyzing the qualities adapted to the station.” These “men”—the electors––would be “most likely to possess the information and discernment requisite to such complicated investigations.” And because of their discernment—because they possessed wisdom that the people as a whole might not—“the office of President will never fall to the lot of any man who is not in an eminent degree endowed with the requisite qualifications.”

As Michael Signer explains, the framers were particularly afraid of the people choosing a demagogue. The electors, Hamilton believed, would prevent someone with “talents for low intrigue, and the little arts of popularity” from becoming president. And they would combat “the desire in foreign powers to gain an improper ascendant in our councils.” They would prevent America’s adversaries from meddling in its elections. The founders created the Electoral College, in other words, in part to prevent the election of someone like Donald Trump.
Full text: The Electoral College Was Meant to Stop Men Like Trump From Being President - The Atlantic
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Old 02-07-2017, 01:41 PM   #59 (permalink)
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The electoral collage is today what it was then: A sop to an alliance of people who didn't really like the idea of democracy and people who did as long as it only applied to 'the right people'.

It is malfunctioning, but only because Hamilton's mythical 'better men' have managed to corrupt it. It is actually functioning as intended in preventing, by use of foreign involvement, low intrigue, and demagoguery, this union from becoming too democratic for what the founders saw as it's own good.

It's ironic that it has long since become what amounts to a vote redistribution scheme used by plutocrats, theocrats, and fascists to do almost exactly what the founders were trying to prevent.
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Old 02-07-2017, 02:06 PM   #60 (permalink)
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Old 02-07-2017, 02:17 PM   #61 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Dakota Tebaldi View Post
Trump's stupidly-long tie has always bothered me more than it rightly should. I mean, the guy has to be getting his suits bespoke, right? And you're telling me that not a single tailor at any one of his measurings or fittings ever took him aside and said "Look, we need to talk about your tie"?
Gee, you don't supose he might be compensating for something do you?
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Old 02-07-2017, 03:43 PM   #62 (permalink)
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He's supposed to come visit us soon...

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Old 02-07-2017, 04:08 PM   #63 (permalink)
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The Rude Pundit: Trump's Willing Victims: The Poor, Dumb Bastards of the White Working Class
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...

But for the poor who voted for Trump, you are going to be punched in the face repeatedly by your own fists. And you'll come running to Democrats to help you, and we will, 'cause that's who the hell we are, and then you'll run right back to the racist pricks because that's just who the fuck you are: ungrateful, uneducated bastards who have been brainwashed so thoroughly that you don't realize who is stabbing you and who is trying to get your wounds healed, willing victims asking, "Please, may I have another" as the knife is twisted in your gut.
Article he is referencing;
Trump has made America's 'poorest white town' hopeful again - Feb. 6, 2017
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Old 02-07-2017, 04:25 PM   #64 (permalink)
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I thought I read that Baldwin sad going to host the entire show as Donny.
Most recently Rosie O'Donnell had said she wants to be their Bannon.
So picture this: Baldwin as T Rosie as Bannon Melissa McCarthy as Spicer.
Cute the apoplexy!

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Old 02-07-2017, 04:29 PM   #65 (permalink)
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He's supposed to come visit us soon...

I heard he's basically been disinvited from giving an address to Parliament. That's pretty awesome.
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Old 02-07-2017, 04:44 PM   #66 (permalink)
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I heard he's basically been disinvited from giving an address to Parliament. That's pretty awesome.
You mean in the U.K. maybe?

From a couple of weeks ago;
Trump, Trudeau talk economy and exports in first contact since inauguration

The ed cartoon was probably poking a few things in that drawing, including how Trudeau is +/- conforming to U.S. and Trump. He really is between a rock and a hard place...
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Old 02-07-2017, 04:51 PM   #67 (permalink)
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9 More Women S.N.L. Should Use to Get Under Trump - Vanity Fair
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Old 02-07-2017, 05:30 PM   #68 (permalink)
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"Yes, as NBC recently reminded us, children are off-limits for certain kinds of jokes. But S.N.L. has mocked first children before—just ask Chelsea Clinton"

yeah there's a reason for that, kids can only get included if they make the news themselves based on their own actions (ex the bush twins), or on the very rare occasion be played as a straight foil to their outrageous parents.... come to think of it that's pretty much the rule for all people, not just kids.
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Old 02-07-2017, 06:11 PM   #69 (permalink)
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Donald Trump Is Signing Executive Orders That He Doesn't Read or Understand | GQ

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Old 02-07-2017, 07:48 PM   #70 (permalink)
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There is a 50/50 chance he will launch a nuclear missile at their studio
No chance of that. Trump Tower is 6 blocks from 30 Rockefeller Center (where NBC studios are). He might call up the head of Comcast, though (They own NBC-Universal).
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Old 02-07-2017, 08:36 PM   #71 (permalink)
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I watched that video earlier today. The Trump supporters who Poppy Harlow interviewed seem to think that Trump can just wave a magic wand and make coal jobs return, and that he will somehow compel the private prison to reopen. If their hopes for more jobs hinge on a dying industry that depends on a finite resource and a for-profit prison, they are simply living in the past and really have no one to blame but themselves for constantly electing people who are more interested in lining their own pockets (McConnell, I'm looking at YOU) than they are the plight of the jobless.

Also, there are two WalMarts within a half hour drive of Beattyville, but the shuttering of Main Street businesses in Beattyville (and other, poor, rural towns) is somehow the fault of Washington DC, and primarily Democrats, of course?

Job creation at the local level is primarily the territory of state and local governments. Sure, federal policy does factor into the equation, but it can only do so much.

Case in point:

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At 6.0 percent, unemployment is now just above the national average and a lot of people here credit Joe Max Higgins. He has attracted $6 billion of advanced industry including this mill run by Steel Dynamics. It’s one of the most hi-tech steel mills in the country. He got this helicopter factory up and running. Truck maker PACCAR used to build engines only in Europe. It opened its first U.S. plant in the Triangle.
How an economic developer is bringing factory jobs back to Mississippi - CBS News
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Old 02-07-2017, 09:12 PM   #72 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Innula Zenovka View Post
I think the problem is inherent in electing an executive president. If everyone's vote counts equally, then the president will almost always be chosen by the more populous areas.
Which is a problem because?

Yes, the obvious counter argument would be that 'oh, the small states issues will not be listened to'. Well, right now most of the country's concerns are not being addressed by this WH interloper.

It is a bogus argument anyway as congress would provide a check. Wait, that can not happen because too many districts are gerrymandered.

Ok, well, the check from the supremes then? Then you get into the stolen seat issue.

Donny may not represent all of the problems the govt has but he is a clear sign that the electoral college is broken.
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Old 02-07-2017, 11:10 PM   #73 (permalink)
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This article would be comical if it where not so terrifying. Despite all our complaints and jokes about the man, it may be worse than we thought.

Leaks Suggest Trump’s Own Team Is Alarmed By His Conduct

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“I’ve been in this town for 26 years. I have never seen anything like this,” said Eliot Cohen, a senior State Department official under President George W. Bush and a member of his National Security Council. “I genuinely do not think this is a mentally healthy president.”

There is the matter of Trump’s briefing materials, for example. The commander in chief doesn’t like to read long memos, a White House aide who asked to remain unnamed told The Huffington Post. So preferably they must be no more than a single page. They must have bullet points but not more than nine per page
Quote:
The New York Times, meanwhile, painted a portrait of a brooding commander in chief, wandering the White House alone in a bathrobe at night, watching too much cable television and venting his frustrations through angry tweets.

“I think it’s a cry for help,” said Elizabeth Rosenberg, a counterterrorism expert at the Treasury Department under Obama. She said many staffers still working in the national security agencies under Trump see what’s happening and are driven by a simple motive: “Incredulity, and the need to share it.”
...the electoral college is not the problem.
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Old 02-08-2017, 12:52 AM   #74 (permalink)
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Steve Bannon Carries Battles to Another Influential Hub: The Vatican

We can add attempting to widen/exacerbate divisions within the Catholic church to Bannon's to do list of world takeover.

FFS...From a racist rag peddler to the White House, to the expansion of said racist rag to foreign shores and now on to the Vatican.
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Old 02-08-2017, 03:39 AM   #75 (permalink)
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There is the matter of Trump’s briefing materials, for example. The commander in chief doesn’t like to read long memos, a White House aide who asked to remain unnamed told The Huffington Post. So preferably they must be no more than a single page. They must have bullet points but not more than nine per page
A few decades ago we had a prime minister who wanted a maximum one page summary attached to each memo. That way he could stay on top of things efficiently.
He did very well.
He was even known as a man with a lot of knowledge and insights on a lot of issues.

But point is, he did read and study those summaries and if needed the whole memo,
while the Donny thinks he knows all things better and beforehand by using his own huge not to say enormous brainpower. Reading is for sissies.
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