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Old 01-26-2017, 02:04 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Neo-Nazi Richard Spencer Got Punched Again And Twitter Can't Contain Its Excitement
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Old 01-26-2017, 02:07 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Spencer should thank his white pasty ass he's a neo-Nazi and not an old school one.
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Old 01-26-2017, 02:15 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Nice. Good news for a change.
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Old 01-26-2017, 02:17 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Old 01-26-2017, 03:10 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Old 01-26-2017, 03:16 PM   #6 (permalink)
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I got a bad feeling about this.
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Old 01-26-2017, 03:27 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Old 01-26-2017, 04:00 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Old 01-26-2017, 06:14 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Fascist babies whining about a few punches while crowing about the murders of people of color.

Cunts.
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Old 01-26-2017, 10:54 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Wow, I hadn't seen that clip; the only one I saw was the second one. Either Spencer has a glass jaw or that person throws one HELL of a right; even caught by surprise and flush on the jaw like that, the fact Spencer damned near fell down is surprising, especially considering that the antagonist was at least somewhat off balance, probably due to hurrying to get within range. Those one-punch knockdowns you see in the movies don't happen much in real life.
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Old 01-26-2017, 11:09 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Wow, I hadn't seen that clip; the only one I saw was the second one. Either Spencer has a glass jaw or that person throws one HELL of a right; even caught by surprise and flush on the jaw like that, the fact Spencer damned near fell down is surprising, especially considering that the antagonist was at least somewhat off balance, probably due to hurrying to get within range. Those one-punch knockdowns you see in the movies don't happen much in real life.
It's pretty easy to knock a person off-balance if they're not expecting it.

I'm no anarchist, but I would have hurt him more (uppercut). So, am I an anarchist?
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Old 01-27-2017, 12:05 AM   #12 (permalink)
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It's pretty easy to knock a person off-balance if they're not expecting it.

I'm no anarchist, but I would have hurt him more (uppercut). So, am I an anarchist?
Thug.
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Old 01-27-2017, 01:04 AM   #13 (permalink)
But it refused. <3

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Old 01-27-2017, 01:14 AM   #14 (permalink)
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Seems legit.
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Old 01-27-2017, 01:28 AM   #15 (permalink)
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I'm no anarchist, but I would have hurt him more (uppercut).
I personally wouldn't have punched him, just because I wouldn't want to scrape my knuckles on that preposterous Beaker-fade. Wth is with that, anyway? If I paid a barber $22 and walked out looking like that I'd wind up on the news for suspected arson.
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Old 01-27-2017, 01:44 AM   #16 (permalink)
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I personally wouldn't have punched him, just because I wouldn't want to scrape my knuckles on that preposterous Beaker-fade. Wth is with that, anyway? If I paid a barber $22 and walked out looking like that I'd wind up on the news for suspected arson.
It's a Hitler haircut. At least, his best attempt at one. But he "Isn't a Nazi", no sir!

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Old 01-27-2017, 02:02 AM   #17 (permalink)
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LOL! In my first post I'd even thought about asking if that was a "Nazi thing", but thought that might be pushing it. Guess not - wow, ha.
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Old 01-27-2017, 05:25 AM   #18 (permalink)
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More facist punching, or at least scratching

Shia LaBeouf Is Arrested at Anti-Trump Art Show in New York


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Old 01-27-2017, 09:16 AM   #19 (permalink)
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It's also amazing to see how many people are critical of this, saying we should be better than this, that violence is never the answer, blah blah blah.

I personally advocate the punching of Nazis whenever the opportunity presents itself. Pacifism in the face of that kind of hatred usually doesn't turn out that well.
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Old 01-27-2017, 03:05 PM   #20 (permalink)
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It's also amazing to see how many people are critical of this, saying we should be better than this, that violence is never the answer, blah blah blah.

I personally advocate the punching of Nazis whenever the opportunity presents itself. Pacifism in the face of that kind of hatred usually doesn't turn out that well.
Agreed. Fascists also tend to co-opt the idea of Freedom of Expression and don't attribute the idea that Freedom of Expression does not avoid Freedom of Consequence from Pissed Off People.



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Old 01-27-2017, 03:27 PM   #21 (permalink)
But it refused. <3

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Old 01-27-2017, 03:43 PM   #22 (permalink)
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The three statements in that image. (from l to r)

1. Let's ask these guys.



2. A "moderate nazi" is an oxymoron.

3. "I feel the garbage's pain"...said no one ever.
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Old 01-27-2017, 03:59 PM   #23 (permalink)
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I'm very much in two minds about all this. On the one hand, seeing this Nazi getting thumped was certainly satisfying on a number of levels, but on principle I worry about thumping someone who's simply being interviewed, no matter how obnoxious he and his views may be.

This isn't so much because I'm concerned about freedom of speech or non-violence, but because I'm concerned about public order.

I'll draw my examples from the UK, since UK examples are the ones that occur most readily to me. Over here we have several extreme political Islamist groups whose ideology and policies are obnoxious to all right-thinking people. Similarly, we have several far-right groups like Britain First and PEGIDA UK (a rebranding of the English Defence League, I think), who are equally obnoxious. Both groups attempt to proselytise in the streets, and sell newspapers to passers-by, and so on.

While I am not unsympathetic to the impulse to clock members of either faction, I don't think it would be at all desirable to have their activities degenerating into running fights in the streets, either between the two different extremist groups or between members of either group and more rational citizens. Rather than have that, I think it's preferable to let them get on with selling their papers so long as they don't make too much of a nuisance of themselves.

I'm conscious, though, that I live in a country where, while we certainly value freedom of expression and association, we do recognise that there are other rights that have to be balanced against them. So if either group makes too much of a public nuisance of itself, the police can step in and make them behave, they can be prosecuted for incitement of racial or religous hatred, or hatred based on sexual orientation or gender identity, and if necessary the Home Secretary can, and will, ban them.

That, to my mind, is as it should be. I want the government, rather than individuals, to have the monopoly of physical coercion in a democratic society, so long as it exercises that monopoly fairly, dispassionately, and within the bounds of law and under the supervision of the courts. While the Battle of Cable Street is justly celebrated as an iconic moment in British anti-fascism, I would rather, in general, that the such marches are banned, or at least re-routed, as a threat to public order without the community having to mobilise to such an extent.

Ken White, at PopeHat, makes what I consider some very useful remarks on the subject: https://www.popehat.com/2017/01/21/on-punching-nazis/

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Old 01-27-2017, 05:09 PM   #24 (permalink)
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I'm very much in two minds about all this. On the one hand, seeing this Nazi getting thumped was certainly satisfying on a number of levels, but on principle I worry about thumping someone who's simply being interviewed, no matter how obnoxious he and his views may be.

This isn't so much because I'm concerned about freedom of speech or non-violence, but because I'm concerned about public order.

I'll draw my examples from the UK, since UK examples are the ones that occur most readily to me. Over here we have several extreme political Islamist groups whose ideology and policies are obnoxious to all right-thinking people. Similarly, we have several far-right groups like Britain First and PEGIDA UK (a rebranding of the English Defence League, I think), who are equally obnoxious. Both groups attempt to proselytise in the streets, and sell newspapers to passers-by, and so on.

While I am not unsympathetic to the impulse to clock members of either faction, I don't think it would be at all desirable to have their activities degenerating into running fights in the streets, either between the two different extremist groups or between members of either group and more rational citizens. Rather than have that, I think it's preferable to let them get on with selling their papers so long as they don't make too much of a nuisance of themselves.

I'm conscious, though, that I live in a country where, while we certainly value freedom of expression and association, we do recognise that there are other rights that have to be balanced against them. So if either group makes too much of a public nuisance of itself, the police can step in and make them behave, they can be prosecuted for incitement of racial or hatred, or hatred based on sexual orientation or gender identity, and if necessary the Home Secretary can, and will, ban them.

That, to my mind, is as it should be. I want the government, rather than individuals, to have the monopoly of physical coercion in a democratic society, so long as it exercises that monopoly fairly, dispassionately, and within the bounds of law and under the supervision of the courts. While the Battle of Cable Street is justly celebrated as an iconic moment in British anti-fascism, I would rather, in general, that the such marches are banned, or at least re-routed, as a threat to public order without the community having to mobilise to such an extent.

Ken White, at PopeHat, makes what I consider some very useful remarks on the subject: https://www.popehat.com/2017/01/21/on-punching-nazis/
I'll take a crack at it.

While I understand your concern and in many ways agree with your sentiments about order, the position of the Antifa, or Anti-fascists, isn't one taken from a position of violence for the sake of violence. The rhetoric of a fascist begins primarily from a position of violence and coercion against certain groups of people who share either differing arbitrary characteristics or simply don't agree with them. They advance this notion, especially in countries with strong free expression, like the US/UK/Much of Europe by co-opting the strong notions of protection of free expression for all people. The trouble of that is two-fold, one is that they do not believe in what they are co-opting and two, their rhetoric and actions, as noted before specifically come from a position of coercive violence.

A particularly troubling modifier in the US is that there is generally very little that can be done to stop their speech legally. Antifa goes around this with the assumption that while a government may not step-in legally, they have a moral obligation to protect all people from the fascist views. Their traditions, often socialist or anarchist, begin from a position where protection and defense of another person is paramount to any notion of what the state deems as "civil" or even "civil discourse." To wit, a quote often attributed to Trotsky goes, "If you cannot convince a Fascist, acquaint his head with the pavement." (There is some argument about this attribution). This isn't stated to be edgy or bad ass, but of a tradition that in class warfare, every individual should be protected regardless of the notions of the state.

Alot of this comes from Marxist traditions about power and of course Trotsky's writings on fighting Fascism (and the what happened when people failed to fight it). There are other aspects of well including how Antifa views police elements but that's probably another argument. And yes, it should also be noted that since Antifa are traditionally anti-capitalist as well, a street level revolution isn't exactly undesired. Note some of the videos coming from the J20 marches, their fight extends as much to the trappings of power, the arms of power in the police, and the fascists, like Spencer, who would use, if he could, the power of the State to institute a fresh round of pogroms.
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Old 01-27-2017, 05:18 PM   #25 (permalink)
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Rather than have that, I think it's preferable to let them get on with selling their papers so long as they don't make too much of a nuisance of themselves.
I think this is the mistake I made for a long time. Arguing that a society supposedly predicated on free speech and free thought should be able to tolerate even those who would, if given the chance, abolish those same freedoms. As a demonstration of the strengths of such a society, even: "We are so secure in our convictions that we can let the stupid spout their stupidity without taking harm."

After all, the stupid would never be more than a nuisance, right? Just weird blooms on the margins of society, best dealt with by mostly ignoring them.

But it turned out that Nazis and similar scum have taken "our" tolerance of their speech and community-building to mean that they'll never have to fear serious repercussions. Worse, "our" tolerance enabled the smarter among them to purposefully shift public discourse in the US, UK, Germany, France, Poland, etc. towards making some of their political ideas quite thinkable and acceptable for far too large a swath of our respective populations. And worse still, the populations so swayed already voted in near-fascism (US, Poland) or are far too likely to vote in near-fascism in the current climate (Germany, France, UK) for my peace of mind.

Which leads into a big problem: The state may not be trusted for much longer to wield a monopoly on violence with anything resembling responsibility (if it ever did. See: police violence in the US) and to curb the excesses of the far-right. It might soon be the far-right. In that sense it might already be too late to "make Nazis afraid again".

So, I'm saying - I guess - that we should have punched them sooner, and often. These people, as long as they hold onto inherently evil ideologies, should be afraid. They should be on the margins, not because they are unusual, but because a healthy mainstream should repel them. Violently, if necessary.
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