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Old 01-25-2017, 11:31 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Muslim Ban previewed and worse than you thought

Draft Text Of Trump’s Executive Order Limiting Muslim Entry To The U.S.

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According to the draft executive order, President Donald Trump plans to:

Block refugee admissions from the war-torn country of Syria indefinitely.

Suspend refugee admissions from all countries for 120 days. After that period, the U.S. will only accept refugees from countries jointly approved by the Department of Homeland Security, the State Department and the Director of National Intelligence.

Cap total refugee admissions for fiscal year 2017 at 50,000 ― less than half of the 110,000 proposed by the Obama administration.

Ban for 30 days all “immigrant and nonimmigrant” entry of individuals from countries designated in Division O, Title II, Section 203 of the 2016 consolidated appropriations act: Iraq, Syria, Iran, Sudan, Libya, Somalia, and Yemen. These countries were targeted last year in restrictions on dual nationals’ and recent travelers’ participation in the visa waiver program.

Suspend visa issuance to countries of “particular concern.” After 60 days, DHS, the State Department and DNI are instructed to draft a list of countries that don’t comply with requests for information. Foreign nationals from those countries will be banned from entering the U.S.

Establish “safe zones to protect vulnerable Syrian populations.” The executive order tasks the secretary of defense with drafting a plan for safe zones in Syria within 90 days. This would be be an escalation of U.S. involvement in Syria and could be the first official indication of how Trump will approach the conflict there.

Expedite the completion of a biometric entry-exit tracking system for all visitors to the U.S. and require in-person interviews for all individuals seeking a nonimmigrant visa.

Suspend the visa interview waiver program indefinitely and review whether existing reciprocity agreements are reciprocal in practice.

Should we just hand the Statue of Liberty back over at this point?
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Old 01-26-2017, 12:01 AM   #2 (permalink)
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Old 01-26-2017, 12:24 AM   #3 (permalink)
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The word on the street as far as executive orders goes is that Miller and Bannon are drafting them pretty much by themselves, and then of course Trump sees them when they're placed in front of him to sign, but beyond those three basically nobody else in the administration knows so much as a word of what's in them until the text is published.
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Old 01-26-2017, 07:54 AM   #4 (permalink)
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Tonight I am going to a rally for supporting refugee and Muslim communities outside of the DC equivalent of a town hall (near the WH). Last night there was one outside the WH. I think I may as well assume there will be something near the WH every evening now.
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Old 01-26-2017, 10:48 AM   #5 (permalink)
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Wait.

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Expedite the completion of a biometric entry-exit tracking system for all visitors to the U.S. and require in-person interviews for all individuals seeking a nonimmigrant visa.
So every tourist coming in must be interviewed first, and then fingerprinted when they arrive???

Goodbye tourism industry. Goodbye international students.
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Old 01-26-2017, 11:00 AM   #6 (permalink)
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Wait.


So every tourist coming in must be interviewed first, and then fingerprinted when they arrive???

Goodbye tourism industry. Goodbye international students.
One of those idiotic details that they didn't think through. Among the many.
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Old 01-26-2017, 11:20 AM   #7 (permalink)
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Wait.


So every tourist coming in must be interviewed first, and then fingerprinted when they arrive???

Goodbye tourism industry. Goodbye international students.
I've not visited the USA for a long time, but my understanding is that almost all visitors (apart from people arriving from Canada or Mexico, perhaps) are routinely photographed and fingerprinted (by digital means) on arrival. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Office...ity_Management

The quote refers to "in-person interviews for all individuals seeking a nonimmigrant visa." Citizens of some 38-odd countries (including the UK and most other European countries) don't normally require a visa to enter the USA for tourism or business purposes for periods of less than 90 days, so the effect on the tourism industry may be less than you fear.

I don't know about the effect on overseas students -- I suspect that for many students, if they already want to study in the USA, the inconvenience of having to attend an interview at the consulate won't deter them if they're offered an opportunity so to do.

I'd worry more about the logistics of it -- how long will it take to conduct a lot of extra interviews, how many extra consular staff will you need, and is there a budget for putting the programme in place?
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Old 01-26-2017, 11:35 AM   #8 (permalink)
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We've had to comply with the Visa Waiver programme for years, that included only being able to travel if you have a biometric passport and having your fingerprints taken on entry to the USA. (you need to apply for a full visa if your passport doesn't comply with that regulation) We also have to go through US security before you get on the plane in the UK, which checks that you are who you say you are, have the relevant travel documents and have a current visa or have applied for a visa waiver. You still have the same questions asked upon entry to the USA.
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Old 01-26-2017, 11:59 AM   #9 (permalink)
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Wait.


So every tourist coming in must be interviewed first, and then fingerprinted when they arrive???

Goodbye tourism industry. Goodbye international students.
Don't let the word "interview" fool you. This is usually someone asking if you are a US citizen and if you are bringing in any fruit.
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Old 01-26-2017, 12:09 PM   #10 (permalink)
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For A Stark Contrast To U.S. Immigration Policy, Try Canada : Parallels : NPR
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Old 01-26-2017, 12:15 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Don't let the word "interview" fool you. This is usually someone asking if you are a US citizen and if you are bringing in any fruit.
That is the pro forma one when they want to say they have done an interview. I doubt Donny is planning on doing that as his goal is to keep people out.
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Old 01-26-2017, 01:58 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Kind of a preview of the way things are going to go. These moves will not stop refugees and other immigrants from Islamic-majority countries from entering the US. They will simply emigrate to another country that the US will not scrutinize, and enter from there.


Oh by the way - anyone else take a look at that list of counties, and notice what's not on the list? Saudi Arabia and Egypt. Why is that? Weren't Osama Bin Laden and like 12 of the 9/11 hijackers Saudi Arabian?  Give you one guess why those countries aren't on the list.
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Old 01-26-2017, 02:32 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Kind of a preview of the way things are going to go. These moves will not stop refugees and other immigrants from Islamic-majority countries from entering the US. They will simply emigrate to another country that the US will not scrutinize, and enter from there.


Oh by the way - anyone else take a look at that list of counties, and notice what's not on the list? Saudi Arabia and Egypt. Why is that? Weren't Osama Bin Laden and like 12 of the 9/11 hijackers Saudi Arabian?  Give you one guess why those countries aren't on the list.
But...but....DID YOU SEE THE SIZE OF THOSE CROWDS??? THEY WERE YUUUUUGE!!!
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Old 01-26-2017, 06:58 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Albright has started something of an "I am Spartacus!" movement.

I'm seriously considering registering as a Muslim as well.
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A former US Secretary of State and a Big Bang Theory actress have both vowed to register as Muslim if Donald Trump creates a database of Muslim Americans.
Politician Madeleine Albright and Mayim Bialik said they "stand ready" to register, in defiance of the new President.


"I was raised Catholic, became Episcopalian & found out later my family was Jewish," Ms Albright - the first woman to be named Secretary of State - tweeted on Wednesday.
Madeleine Albright and Big Bang actress 'ready to join Muslim registry' - BBC News
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Old 01-26-2017, 07:16 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Albright has started something of an "I am Spartacus!" movement.

I'm seriously considering registering as a Muslim as well.
I've told a few people I know this is what I intend to do.
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Old 01-26-2017, 08:00 PM   #16 (permalink)
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I've told a few people I know this is what I intend to do.
Water it down so much as to render it mostly useless!
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Old 01-27-2017, 01:01 PM   #17 (permalink)
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I've told a few people I know this is what I intend to do.
I dare say quite a few of us plan on doing so if he does it! My only concern is how we do it as a 'we stand with you' and does not offend actual Muslims since we are dealing in the realm of what people believe.

I am guessing Donny's crowd does not care no matter how widespread the tactic and would still create the list if they plan on doing so. Maybe add a token fine for identifying wrong, but religion is not something hard and fast like your address so I would like to see them prove someone did not convert and is just nonobservant. Whether we are one type of 'enemy' or another is of no concern to them anyway.
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Old 01-27-2017, 01:37 PM   #18 (permalink)
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I dare say quite a few of us plan on doing so if he does it! My only concern is how we do it as a 'we stand with you' and does not offend actual Muslims since we are dealing in the realm of what people believe.

I am guessing Donny's crowd does not care no matter how widespread the tactic and would still create the list if they plan on doing so. Maybe add a token fine for identifying wrong, but religion is not something hard and fast like your address so I would like to see them prove someone did not convert and is just nonobservant. Whether we are one type of 'enemy' or another is of no concern to them anyway.
For some reason, I do not think that a person of Muslim Religion is going to be even remotely offended of those who are trying to stand up for them and keep them safe by flooding a registry.

As a person of no religion, I would be crying if people did that for me and my family.
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Old 01-27-2017, 01:44 PM   #19 (permalink)
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Can't we just give them Israel next and let all three of them fight it out?
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Old 01-27-2017, 01:55 PM   #20 (permalink)
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For some reason, I do not think that a person of Muslim Religion is going to be even remotely offended of those who are trying to stand up for them and keep them safe by flooding a registry.

As a person of no religion, I would be crying if people did that for me and my family.
Yes, I would guess that would be the reaction. I was just paying attention to the fact that this is the realm of beliefs though and that can be a minefield at times no matter your intentions. If we do hear an EO like that is coming hopefully there will be more guidance on what to do.
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Old 01-27-2017, 03:38 PM   #21 (permalink)
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Can't we just give them Israel next and let all three of them fight it out?


Who is this "we" who owns Israel to give it away? Who is "them?" Who is the third party?
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Old 01-27-2017, 04:41 PM   #22 (permalink)
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Did Humpty Trumpty just say that Christian refugees would still be accepted?

Trump: Persecuted Christian refugees will get priority | TheHill

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Old 01-27-2017, 07:59 PM   #23 (permalink)
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Did Humpty Trumpty just say that Christian refugees would still be accepted?

Trump: Persecuted Christian refugees will get priority | TheHill

Quote:
In an interview with the Christian Broadcasting Network earlier Friday, Trump was asked whether he would prioritize persecuted Christians in the Middle East for admission as refugees, and he replied, “Yes.”

“They’ve been horribly treated,” he said. “Do you know if you were a Christian in Syria it was impossible, at least very tough, to get into the United States? If you were a Muslim you could come in, but if you were a Christian it was almost impossible. And the reason that was so unfair — everybody was persecuted, in all fairness — but they were chopping off the heads of everybody, but more so the Christians. And I thought it was very, very unfair.

“So we are going to help them.”
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world...=.c7cb8fa0d8da

So tough luck, I guess, if, for example, you're Yazidi: Meet the British Yazidi teen fighting to save her girlfriends from Isil's sexual slavery.

Calls To Protect Women From Daesh Sexual Attacks | Forces TV
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Old 01-27-2017, 08:43 PM   #24 (permalink)
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If I were a terrorist trying to enter the US, I'd be sure to pose as a Christian since evidently that's going to be a green light.

If there's a registry for Muslims that citizens can sign up for, I'm planning on being on it, as is my wife. My fear is that the architects of this pile of steaming shit are canny enough to know that there will be attempts to dilute it and make it worthless.
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Old 01-27-2017, 08:44 PM   #25 (permalink)
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Did Humpty Trumpty just say that Christian refugees would still be accepted?

Trump: Persecuted Christian refugees will get priority | TheHill

How in the world is he going to do that? Religion is not like eye color or something .... you can not prove what religion someone else is. Even is they are from an area that is predominantly one religion the key word is predominantly.
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