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Old 03-16-2017, 07:10 PM   #451 (permalink)
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I imagine if he attempted to travel to the US for any reason other than an official state visit, he would be detained and interrogated for hours, and eventually sent packing back to Canada.
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Old 03-17-2017, 07:22 AM   #452 (permalink)
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Trump Thinks the Constitution 'Makes Us Look Weak' - Rolling Stone

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So by making public statements that contradict the arguments the Department of Justice lawyers defending the ban are making in court, and at the same time declaring his contempt for the judges who will rule on the order, Trump is undermining an already very weak case.

And that's more reason for alarm than comfort. Trump isn't willing to play along and pretend his order isn't about fulfilling his campaign promise to keep out Muslims because he rejects the role of the other branches of government as a check on his authority. The first judge to rule against him was a "so-called judge"; the latest is being "political."

Trump's pronouncements on the judiciary are increasingly ominous. He told the Tennessee crowd, "People are screaming to break up the Ninth Circuit," referring to the judicial circuit in which multiple district courts have ruled against the ban, and a panel of the court of appeals upheld the injunction against the first version of the order. It's unclear exactly what he meant by that, but it implies doing something to the courts that goes beyond just insulting them.

He also made the troubling pronouncement that the latest ruling against the travel ban "makes us look weak." The ruling only makes us look weak if your idea of a strong nation is one ruled by a strongman. Those Trump has expressed admiration for – including Vladimir Putin, Recep Tayyip Erdogan and Rodrigo Duterte – can rule unburdened by meaningful restraints on their power from courts enforcing the law. And it's increasingly clear that this is the kind of power Trump wants. Time will tell how far he'll go to get it.
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Old 03-17-2017, 07:38 AM   #453 (permalink)
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I was reading an article last night where the author was talking about how the Hawaii judge's ruling was actually off, and that it may set a dangerous precedent. The argument was that the POTUS IS actually allowed to keep out whoever he wants from the country, and that the Constitution does not apply to non-citizens outside the borders, so saying that using religion as a test to keep people out is not necessarily illegal, as long as it is not used on US citizens. Our judicial system and Constitution cannot be applied outside our own borders, in essence. Some more to think about.

One thing about this administration, I'm learning a heck of a lot about constitutional law, lol!
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Old 03-17-2017, 07:41 AM   #454 (permalink)
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The first judge to rule against him was a "so-called judge."
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Old 03-17-2017, 04:08 PM   #455 (permalink)
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Immigrants are less likely to commit crimes than natural-born Americans

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The 18-page report, titled “Immigration and Public Safety,” concludes that “foreign-born residents of the United States commit crime less often than native-born citizens. Policies that further restrict immigration are therefore not effective crime-control strategies. These facts — supported by over 100 years of research — have been misrepresented both historically and in recent political debates.”

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Old 03-18-2017, 02:49 PM   #456 (permalink)
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Not just muslims apparently: Africa Trade Meeting Has No Africans After US Visa Denials
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Old 03-20-2017, 10:30 PM   #457 (permalink)
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US forbids any device larger than cellphone on airlines from 13 countries | Business | The Guardian
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Old 03-20-2017, 11:05 PM   #458 (permalink)
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Old 03-21-2017, 06:03 AM   #459 (permalink)
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A laptop in a checked bag? Do people know how checked bags are treated? They are not exactly secure either.
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Old 03-21-2017, 12:32 PM   #460 (permalink)
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A laptop in a checked bag? Do people know how checked bags are treated? They are not exactly secure either.
I watched a guy on the tarmac throwing a suitcase. Pick up, toss ahead. Walk. Repeat. Wish I'd had my camera out.
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Old 03-21-2017, 01:15 PM   #461 (permalink)
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UK flight ban on electronic devices announced


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The British government has announced a cabin baggage ban on laptops on direct passenger flights to the UK from Turkey, Lebanon, Jordan, Egypt, Tunisia and Saudi Arabia.
The ban, which also applies to tablets and DVD players, follows a similar US move affecting eight countries
UK flight ban on electronic devices announced - BBC News
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Old 03-21-2017, 01:47 PM   #462 (permalink)
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I watched a guy on the tarmac throwing a suitcase. Pick up, toss ahead. Walk. Repeat. Wish I'd had my camera out.
Same here. I had a window seat and they did the usual wedonothaveanymorespaceinouroverheadbinssowewillch ecktherestforfree. Most of those bags wound up being tossed from the plane door level down to the tarmac. I hope people that did not board first were not carrying anything fragile. After that I decided to do economy+ when I had to fly so I would have a guaranteed bag in the cabin.

The airlines act like this is a sudden thing that people are carrying more. No, they are carrying just as much as always. The airlines stuff more people in the cabin now to save money (more people=more luggage) and their making the checked bag 'experience' as painful and slow as possible does not exactly encourage people to check things.
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Old 03-21-2017, 01:51 PM   #463 (permalink)
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What will they decide to ban next? Books? They just want to make flying here as painful as possible for people from the middle east.
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Old 03-21-2017, 02:35 PM   #464 (permalink)
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Banning electronics and letting phones go through is self defeating. Useless. But it does throw meat to the howlers so yay?
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Old 03-21-2017, 03:00 PM   #465 (permalink)
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Banning electronics and letting phones go through is self defeating. Useless. But it does throw meat to the howlers so yay?
Maybe depends on the nature of the threat about which they're concerned. Not that I know anything about bomb-making, but it seems self-evident that some could stash a considerably larger charge inside a PC or tablet than inside a phone. Maybe a cellphone is just too small to put an effective charge and detonator inside.

And it's quite possible that they're working from intelligence that someone's been making bombs concealed in laptops or tablets, but they're heard nothing about phones being a threat.

Ah.. and I swear I hadn't listened to the BBC clip about this before writing the above :UK flight ban on electronic devices announced - BBC News

They do, though, make it clear that it's a contentious decision, and that it would be more logical to ban laptops and tablets on planes altogether, whether in the hold or as hand luggage. I guess no one wants to be the one who was responsible for deciding to ignore whatever intelligence they've received if something goes horribly wrong, but it sounds like they are, in fact, trying to find restrictions that are no more onerous than absolutely necessary.
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Old 03-21-2017, 03:26 PM   #466 (permalink)
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Quote:
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What will they decide to ban next? Books? They just want to make flying here as painful as possible for people from the middle east.
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Originally Posted by Gabriell Anatra View Post
Banning electronics and letting phones go through is self defeating. Useless. But it does throw meat to the howlers so yay?
An article I read about this made it seem as if there was some credible threat which prompted the ban. If so, I don't really have a particular issue with it, as a temporary issue, but of course they will probably make it permanent.

Like Gabriell, I believe it's pretty useless if still allowing phones. Also, someone can just start their flight from a different location than the countries involved.

We never want a successful terrorist attack, but we really, really, really don't want one with Trump in office.
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Old 03-21-2017, 04:16 PM   #467 (permalink)
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If there is a possible threat from having these devices on board in the passenger area, why not make it a complete ban? Why single out these particular countries? If they have some intel on specific areas, a terrorist would only have to take a flight out, then take a plane from say, one European country to another.
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Old 03-21-2017, 08:31 PM   #468 (permalink)
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If there is a possible threat from having these devices on board in the passenger area, why not make it a complete ban? Why single out these particular countries? If they have some intel on specific areas, a terrorist would only have to take a flight out, then take a plane from say, one European country to another.
I'm smart enough to put a mini nuke into a 3 pound laptop, but trying to figure out how to book a flight from another country once I get there is just too hard for me.
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Old 03-21-2017, 08:48 PM   #469 (permalink)
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An article I read about this made it seem as if there was some credible threat which prompted the ban. If so, I don't really have a particular issue with it, as a temporary issue, but of course they will probably make it permanent.

Like Gabriell, I believe it's pretty useless if still allowing phones. Also, someone can just start their flight from a different location than the countries involved.

We never want a successful terrorist attack, but we really, really, really don't want one with Drumpf in office.
Except for strengthening cockpit doors most new things we have done in the name of 'security' on planes since 9/11 has been pure theatre. Quite a bit beyond planes as well. Pretty much anything the TSA is involved with will only catch really unlucky terrorists who are stupid and/or lazy.

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Old 03-21-2017, 11:46 PM   #470 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Innula Zenovka View Post
Maybe depends on the nature of the threat about which they're concerned. Not that I know anything about bomb-making, but it seems self-evident that some could stash a considerably larger charge inside a PC or tablet than inside a phone. Maybe a cellphone is just too small to put an effective charge and detonator inside.

And it's quite possible that they're working from intelligence that someone's been making bombs concealed in laptops or tablets, but they're heard nothing about phones being a threat.

Ah.. and I swear I hadn't listened to the BBC clip about this before writing the above :UK flight ban on electronic devices announced - BBC News

They do, though, make it clear that it's a contentious decision, and that it would be more logical to ban laptops and tablets on planes altogether, whether in the hold or as hand luggage. I guess no one wants to be the one who was responsible for deciding to ignore whatever intelligence they've received if something goes horribly wrong, but it sounds like they are, in fact, trying to find restrictions that are no more onerous than absolutely necessary.
it's pretty much theatrics... anything with a lithium battery is potential bomb material... even something as small as a phone, with a few tweaks is enough to decompress the cabin.

not that this hasn't been known forever....
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Old 03-22-2017, 12:26 AM   #471 (permalink)
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The local and national news on the radio I heard today suggested that this incident from 2016 was the trigger for the ban. Somalia plane bomb: Laptop device got through X-ray - CNN.com
The fact it happened over a year ago is not surprising to me; these agencies typically take forever to define policy changes.

I don't believe I heard anyone in an official capacity connect the Somali incident; it was just speculation on the part of news-people as far as I know. Still it does seem likely and it seems the issue was the amount of TNT that the laptop allowed; a smartphone would not be able to do that. He did manage to blow a good-sized hole (through which he de-planed) in the fuselage, as the photo shows.

Having the bomb in checked luggage would be just as dangerous, of course, but perhaps it had to be triggered directly through the laptop.
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Old 03-22-2017, 12:40 AM   #472 (permalink)
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The local and national news on the radio I heard today suggested that this incident from 2016 was the trigger for the ban. Somalia plane bomb: Laptop device got through X-ray - CNN.com
The fact it happened over a year ago is not surprising to me; these agencies typically take forever to define policy changes.

I don't believe I heard anyone in an official capacity connect the Somali incident; it was just speculation on the part of news-people as far as I know. Still it does seem likely and it seems the issue was the amount of TNT that the laptop allowed; a smartphone would not be able to do that. He did manage to blow a good-sized hole (through which he de-planed) in the fuselage, as the photo shows.

Having the bomb in checked luggage would be just as dangerous, of course, but perhaps it had to be triggered directly through the laptop.
"and got past X-ray machines at the Mogadishu airport" lol
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Old 03-22-2017, 12:44 AM   #473 (permalink)
But it refused. <3

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"and got past X-ray machines at the Mogadishu airport" lol
It's amazing what a $100 US bribe can get you.
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Old 03-22-2017, 05:31 AM   #474 (permalink)
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Quote:
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The local and national news on the radio I heard today suggested that this incident from 2016 was the trigger for the ban. Somalia plane bomb: Laptop device got through X-ray - CNN.com
The fact it happened over a year ago is not surprising to me; these agencies typically take forever to define policy changes.

I don't believe I heard anyone in an official capacity connect the Somali incident; it was just speculation on the part of news-people as far as I know. Still it does seem likely and it seems the issue was the amount of TNT that the laptop allowed; a smartphone would not be able to do that. He did manage to blow a good-sized hole (through which he de-planed) in the fuselage, as the photo shows.

Having the bomb in checked luggage would be just as dangerous, of course, but perhaps it had to be triggered directly through the laptop.
Yet the underwear bomber did not change policy. Or most of the many things that have gone through security as test objects or because someone forgot they were carrying them. Simply because the incidents did not get as much press or the ban would look bad for the TSA.

The TSA is not proactive, it is reactive. It does not matter if something was used in a successful attack, they just want to look like they are preventing stuff. Most terrorists are not stupid, if something did not work they will not do it again .... they will think of something new.
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Old 03-23-2017, 02:46 PM   #475 (permalink)
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Giant ass google doc here:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...qzc/edit#gid=0
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