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Old 01-11-2017, 02:49 PM   #126 (permalink)
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Some of those have already been going around.
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Old 01-11-2017, 03:19 PM   #127 (permalink)
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In a way, I hope it isn't true. He deserves to be treated like he treated others.
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Old 01-11-2017, 03:42 PM   #128 (permalink)
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When I was a kid - grade school. A journalist came and gave a talk to my class about being a journalist. My only take away from that talk was FACT
Fair
Accurate
Concise
True

Truth is so fucking important that it made that little acronym twice. I think that after all the boo-hooing, waah-waah'ing, and shirt rending that went on about how fake news affected the election that we should care a lot about if this story is true or not. Because if it's not true, and we keep passing it around like it is, then how are we better than the other side? We keep saying we're better than THEM - maybe it's time to start fucking acting like it.

Plus, if this is not true and it keeps being much ado about nothing, then when something real comes to light - and it will - then it will be dismissed as just another fake news story.

If this is not true then we are shooting ourselves in our own foot.
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Old 01-11-2017, 03:45 PM   #129 (permalink)
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Better than them or not, they created the atmosphere we're in. You can hold your breath or you can breathe it. To beat them at their own game, you have to play it. I don't really give a shit at this point. I'm all out of give-a-damns, and appeals to my better nature are just going to fall flat. Fuck them. I want that fucker to drop dead of a heart attack as soon as possible. Hell, I'd be happy even if he went peacefully in the night, thereby hitting the jackpot that a lot of more deserving people never got to have. I don't care. I just want him gone, and I don't give a fuck what way it happens.
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Old 01-11-2017, 03:48 PM   #130 (permalink)
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Old 01-11-2017, 03:52 PM   #131 (permalink)
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And also, the hand wringing today from news outlets just agog that someone might run something that hasn't been vetted. Does the name Jim Comey ring any fucking bells?
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Old 01-11-2017, 03:59 PM   #132 (permalink)
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"nothing to do with Russia"?

Umm, Donny, we can all see your pretty obvious "fondness" for women of Russian descent.
Ivana and Melania are of Czech/Slovene origin (the country split).
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Old 01-11-2017, 03:59 PM   #133 (permalink)
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And also, the hand wringing today from news outlets just agog that someone might run something that hasn't been vetted. Does the name Jim Comey ring any fucking bells?
Jim "I would never comment on an investigation in progress" Comey? Never heard of him.
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Old 01-11-2017, 04:00 PM   #134 (permalink)
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Better than them or not, they created the atmosphere we're in. You can hold your breath or you can breathe it. To beat them at their own game, you have to play it. I don't really give a shit at this point. I'm all out of give-a-damns, and appeals to my better nature are just going to fall flat. Fuck them. I want that fucker to drop dead of a heart attack as soon as possible. Hell, I'd be happy even if he went peacefully in the night, thereby hitting the jackpot that a lot of more deserving people never got to have. I don't care. I just want him gone, and I don't give a fuck what way it happens.
Or in other words:

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Old 01-11-2017, 04:01 PM   #135 (permalink)
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Or in other words:

More like because good is nice, and nice is going to get curb stomped.
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Old 01-11-2017, 04:03 PM   #136 (permalink)
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More like because good is nice, and nice is going to get curb stomped.

Because good is ethical.
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Old 01-11-2017, 04:09 PM   #137 (permalink)
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That particular debate has long been a pet interest of mine.

I eventually came to the conclusion that it's probably irrelevant in the long run. As tactics succeed they tend to become part of the trade. We will likely see much of this become part of the business anyway, whether anyone really wants it to or not.
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Old 01-11-2017, 04:26 PM   #138 (permalink)
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Projecting again, Donnie?
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Old 01-11-2017, 04:35 PM   #139 (permalink)
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Putting together a disinformation document like this for an intel briefing is the height of irresponsibility. Unless it is CLEARLY denoted as such all over the document, then the intel people who came up with this should not be one bit surprised it was leaked and there is such an uproar about it. Which leads me to believe they DO have info on it, and it's NOT made-up disinformation. They're just trying to cover their asses.

BBC says they have more than one source for this dirt on Trump. I wish they would get on with it.
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Old 01-11-2017, 04:36 PM   #140 (permalink)
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it's worth noting that the last time a president pissed off the IC this much there was a bit of a to-do in Dallas.
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Old 01-11-2017, 04:38 PM   #141 (permalink)
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Old 01-11-2017, 04:40 PM   #142 (permalink)
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Putting together a disinformation document like this for an intel briefing is the height of irresponsibility. Unless it is CLEARLY denoted as such all over the document, then the intel people who came up with this should not be one bit surprised it was leaked and there is such and uproar about it. Which leads me to believe they DO have info on it, and it's NOT made-up disinformation.

BBC says they have more than one source for this dirt on Trump. I wish they would get on with it.

I will just copypasta what I've already said elsewhere today. Read to the bottom before flipping out as this was chronological:

Thing one:

*just* woke up. My only comment on what Im starting to gather happened tonight is this: If true (and it's probably true. ETA: Im downgrading this - Im not so sure this is true. I have questions. See below paragraphs.), it remains the single least offensive thing about him. I can't begin to scrape together a reason to care about this. There's more important issues at stake here than a stupid pee fetish. Don't care.

ETA: I have questions.
First of all, on the assumption this is true (and Im not assuming that), isn't the actual problem the stupidity involved here? Like, how stupid do you have to be to not know the potential for that hotel room to be wired and bugged? Do I think he's that stupid? Yes. But Im not so sure these allegations are true. It doesn't add up in other ways.

a) to date, we have never had any indication that DJT has this particular kink. In fact, what we _do_ know is he has a problem with germs. (http://www.motherjones.com/…/2015/12/donald-trump-germaphobe , for example. there are others.) Before someone tells me "but urine is sterile!" The ins and outs of sterility of urine are not relevant to this situation. He's too stupid to know them, (and he wouldn't retain this info even if he did- it's not about him,.) and it's not HIS urine in question. If this was a kink in opposition to normal behavior/transgressive kink (common case scenario) why has NO ONE ever reported it before? We've heard four zillion bits of horrible shit about this guy but not this. Why not?

b) But, you say, this could totally be about just how much he hated the Obamas! It's a one time thing! Here's the followup questions - where did he sleep that night? Do you mean to tell me that this all happened in the master bed of this hotel suite and then he was willing to sleep in the same bed after he got housekeeping to come in and clean up? In the absence of plastic sheeting, wouldn't this have ruined the mattress anyway? In the presence of plastic sheeting, could it have been removed such that no *trace* of moisture wound up on the bed? I'll ask again-- where did he sleep that night? Did he really pay goodness knows how much money for that room and sleep in another bed JUST to do this? Relegate himself to a *lesser* bed? Really? Does that sound believable to you?

I want WAY more info than what we've got before I buy this. It doesn't add, guys. It doesn't add. And though believe me I am SURE the Russians have stuff on him, I am not sure this is real

Thing two:

Im reading the full dossier release. Im in the middle somewhere. It'll take me a bit to get through it as I have to work, too. But what Im seeing are two stories. One much larger that's very likely to be mostly true(see pages 7 and 8 of the dossier), and a smaller, but more marketable story that's likely to be mostly false. (see hotel room story on page 1.)


Overall what Im seeing is the intelligence community has had enough of DJT's shit and is pointing that out in an object lesson the likes of which I can only admire.


Only truly relevant question this morning so far is if this will make the GOP decide they've also had enough of his shit and will stage a sort of coup in order to replace him with Pence. Pence is a horrible human being, but he's not as far as I can tell, mentally ill.


thing three:

Still reading the original source material. I gotta say that Im kind of loving the IC today. This is totally their version of "Do you even lift, bro?" I keep reading and I find myself giggling at the beautiful object lesson this is (which has *nothing* to do with whether or not it's true.)


I just woke up and Im back on page 17. So far:
1. One sensational story that doesn't track well.

2. An ENORMOUS story that is pieced together from stuff that's already been reported and in many cases widely accepted as fact since the summer. None of it can be fully verified(Tom Brokaw was on TV this morning saying he'd been trying but has never been able to do it.), but since we've already heard it before, in bits and pieces scattered over months, it reads like validation, not new intel. This is cementing in our minds as truthful that which we already believed to be true. it's GORGEOUS as a power play.


Do I believe there is truth here? Yes. Do I believe there are lies here? Yes. But the real takeaway is it doesn't even matter which is which and we have no way to know anyway. It's that the IC is showing DJT *what they do for a living*. Destabilizing governments using well placed bits of both information and disinformation. This is some spycraft 101 shit. It's *gorgeous* as a lesson. I want to just hug the whole IC and give them kisses and fruit baskets.


Im still reading and will read the whole thing, but the bottom line is that we're never going to fully know which is real and not in this document. There's both, and which is which *largely* doesn't make much difference to make the broader point.


----------------

Conclusions thus far: I don't know nor care which bits are true. The IC is fucking with him and it's glorious.

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Old 01-11-2017, 05:17 PM   #143 (permalink)
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Yes. It was only a few days ago that Schumer (sp?) was saying that you piss off the IC at your own risk. They have ways of making life very uncomfortable.

This is a beautiful thing seen in that context.

And I hope it will dog him and hound him till the day he dies (even though I know it won't - there'll be another shiny for the media to chase in about 20 nanoseconds).
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Old 01-11-2017, 05:36 PM   #144 (permalink)
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John McCain passes dossier alleging secret Trump-Russia contacts to FBI - The Guardian
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The Guardian has learned that the FBI applied for a warrant from the foreign intelligence surveillance (Fisa) court over the summer in order to monitor four members of the Trump team suspected of irregular contacts with Russian officials. The Fisa court turned down the application asking FBI counter-intelligence investigators to narrow its focus. According to one report, the FBI was finally granted a warrant in October, but that has not been confirmed, and it is not clear whether any warrant led to a full investigation.
(Though I'm sure most of you are more familiar with the FISA court than I am...)
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Old 01-11-2017, 05:42 PM   #145 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by DanielRavenNest View Post
Ivana and Melania are of Czech/Slovene origin (the country split).
Slovenia != Slovakia.

Slovenia (where Melania comes from) used to be part of what was then Yugoslavia.
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Old 01-11-2017, 05:45 PM   #146 (permalink)
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Former British intelligence agent who originally compiled Trump/Russia dossier identified

Yup, it was an actual spy, not 4chan.

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Christopher Steele created the controversial document about the Russian government's power over Trump, The Wall Street Journal said Wednesday.

The Journal said Steele is now a director at a private security and investigations firm in London.

Steele, 52, is one of two directors at Orbis Business Intelligence Ltd., people familiar with the matter told the newspaper.

Orbis was formed in 2009 by former British intelligence professionals, according to the firm's website. The company mounts "intelligence-gathering operations" and conducts "complex, often cross-border investigations."

A source told the Journal that Steele created the dossier, which is a series of unsigned memos seemingly written between June and December 2016.

Steele also devised a plan for disseminating the document to U.S. and European law enforcement officials, they added, including the FBI.

The Journal added Orbis' other co-director is Christopher Burrows, 58, a former counselor in Britain's Foreign and Commonwealth office.
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Old 01-11-2017, 06:01 PM   #147 (permalink)
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Like everyone in this thread wouldn't like to piss on Trump for free.
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Old 01-11-2017, 06:16 PM   #148 (permalink)
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Of course nothing will come of it. If having accusations of raping a 15 year old girl repeatedly was not enough to keep him from being elected, do you really think having a few Russian hookers pee on each other is going to cause him trouble now that he has all three branches of government at his disposal?

I will call my Senator and complain. I am sure he will get right on the problem ...just as soon as he is finished getting his wife confirmed into Trump's cabinet.
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Old 01-11-2017, 06:29 PM   #149 (permalink)
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Like everyone in this thread wouldn't like to piss on Trump for free.
Ahem. In the part of the world where I come from, it is sometimes said, of someone whom the speaker regards with considerable dislike and contempt, "I wouldn't piss in his face if his head was on fire."
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Old 01-11-2017, 07:56 PM   #150 (permalink)
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it's worth noting that the last time a president pissed off the IC this much there was a bit of a to-do in Dallas.
Or in an alternate universe ....


[Finally that was corrected by JFK going back in time to be the shooter on the grassy knoll.]
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